Summary of the 8th York DCS User Group Meeting, October 14, 2009

The 8th York DCS User Group Meeting was conducted on Wednesday, October 14 2009 at Alexander's restaurant in York, PA. There were some 50+ DCS users and a contingent of MTH senior staff present. As were the previous 7 DCS user group meetings, this one was a complete success and everyone present had a great time.

Roger Sims (Roger 'n NC) graciously volunteered to take notes of the meeting and prepare a summary of the meeting, including a detailed list of questions and answers, for posting on the OGR Forum.

Following is the meeting summary that Roger developed, with some small assistance from me. Any kudos belong solely to Roger. Any errors or omissions, on the other hand, are most likely mine.

Enjoy!

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Prior to the meeting itself, volunteers (Johnny Ourso (Cajun), Bob Snyder and Marty Fitzhenry) were available to upgrade DCS TIUs and remotes to the latest version of DCS, as well as to clone remotes. Everyone then had dinner that was served by Paula's excellent wait staff. The "serious" stuff commenced at 8:00 pm.

Barry Broskowitz opened the meeting by welcoming all the attendees and the representatives from MTH (Andy Edleman, Dave Krebiehl, Rich foster, and Jason Wenzel). Barry noted that Roger Sims had graciously volunteered to be the scribe for the meeting so that a summary of the meeting could be posted on the OGR DCS & PS2 Forum.

Barry spoke about member Paul Strickland, VA Golfer, who was unable to be at the meeting since he was recovering from surgery. Barry called Paul on his cell phone and placed the phone on speaker so that the assembled attendees could wish Paul a speedy recovery.

Barry turned the meeting over to Andy Edleman, VP of Marketing for MTH.

Andy Edleman
Andy started out by thanking everyone for the feedback and questions –“we hear you and appreciate the constructive criticism”. This is his 45th York meet.

MTH’s web site will change next month. Regarding catalog and releasing it on line; “we are trying to support our retailers thus we want to release the catalog a week after it is available in stores, which is the same time as York.” Andy then introduced Dave Krebiehl, VP of Research and Development.

Dave Krebiehl
The HO platform is done and is being converted to O gauge. Scale size tenders are coming. Regarding the status of DCS: in 12 to 18 months we should have a new TIU with USB ports and a new version of DCS. Everything will be backwards compatible. Although the current system is max'd out, most of the suggested ideas can be incorporated into the new system. Between now and then MTH is talking about improving the DCS signaling design. This will allow for download speeds that will be 16 times what is currently available. The new TIU will allow programming over the rails. Further, between the capabilities of the new TIU and the new turn of PS2 boards, track signal strength will be highly tunable.

The bad news is that the microprocessor in the current TIU is at capacity and new features will have to wait for a new platform in the engines (no batteries, improved sound files), the TIU and the remote.

Dave then introduced Jason Wenzel of MTH Research and Development, to address the questions that were submitted in advance of the meeting via the OGR Forum.


Jason Wenzel
Category: DCS Hardware
Question: What's the status of the new DCS hardware (TIU, DCS Remote, AIU) discussed at the last user group meeting in April?
Answer: See answer above.

Question: Will the new hardware be compatible with the older versions (TIUs, AIUs, Controllers)?
Answer: Yes.

Category: DCS Software
Question: Can MTH do something, or is there something we can already do, to put the Variable Track 1's from multiple TIUs together. Better yet, ideally the operator would be able to select any number of Variable Tracks to group together for control, say (TIU-1, Variable1) & (TIU-2, Variable 2)?
Answer: We can look at it in the new platform. Existing platform can not handle it.

Question: Is a fix in the works for using Vista 64 O/S?
Answer: A new service loader is coming out. MTH is not a software company and does not have the resources to ensure that compatibility with every variant of all versions of Windows.

Question: April's DCS meeting someone pointed out that Quickset Speed will allow the user to set a speed higher than the currently established Maximum Speed. Is there a fix on the way?
Answer: It’s a simple fix that we have not had time to address, however, it’s on the list.

Question: It would be nice for TMCC programming (and switch or acc and other naming screens) if we could use the number pad to input the names (similar to a phone).
Answer: We will look at it with the existing system although it may not be as simple as it sounds.

Question: Will Legacy control be coming to DCS?
Answer: Not at the current time.

Question: Will MTH be supporting or releasing their own computer based control of a DCS layout? (e.g., connect a computer to the TUI and run the trains)
Answer: MTH would need to do a cost/benefit analysis before developing a DCS-based layout control system. What should the price be for such a product? There are many questions that would have to be answered first.

Question: Record/Playback capability - 3 programs can be retained in the TIU. It would be extremely advantageous if we could download those programs to a computer for archiving. The benefit would be substantial. If we could download the 3 programs, we could create a library of various programs for future use.
Answer: This is not a simple request. This is a software development resource issue and would be based on how many people would use/want it vs. other features and functions

Question: Will we see a new beta with any of these items soon?
• TMCC engine control within record/playback – currently works if the TMCC engine is already started.
Answer: Should not be difficult to correct.
• Correct flakey scrolling at low speeds
Answer: Will be corrected in the new platform. Until then Quickset Speed is a good workaround.
• Correct instability of ACC and DEC rate settings
Answer: Values are derived directly from the engine as part of the sound file. The remote is getting the information from those files. Issues may be due to low battery .

Question: Will the next generation of hardware (controller) include the following features:
• direction indicators (F/R or arrows)
• a "smoke on" icon that is always displayed when the smoke is on
• a "headlight on" icon that is always displayed when the headlight is on
• an "engine sounds" icon that is always displayed when engine sounds are on
• a "Doppler on" icon that is always displayed when the Doppler feature is activated
• a "PFA on" icon that is always displayed when the PFA feature is activated
Answer: If enough people want this, the icons could be added. Some are already in the HO system (DCS Commander.)

Question: When building a Lash up of 6 units, one presses "start up" and then some units no marker lights; all the others are ok. Trying to address the units without marker lights yields “Engine not on track”. Happens in both Super and normal TIU mode.
Answer: Discussed, but no definitive answers. ]

Question: Is there any way we can have at least the speed and maybe forward and reverse control over the train with one single remote while the train is in the signal check mode?
Answer: We might able to do with the existing hardware.

Question: It sure would be nice if MTH could come up with some way to have the sound files be able to be edited so that we could mix and match at least the available sounds.
Answer: Not simple to do and probably can not do - very difficult. Will keep it in mind.

Question: Although I have been using DCS since "Day 1", I have recently encountered one or two of my 4 hand held controllers shutting themselves off, even during operating sessions, while running a locomotive. I have tried new batteries, but that doesn't correct the situation.
Answer: Check to see how the batteries are seated in the controller and ensure that they are making good contact. A hardware change is coming with the new controller. MTH acknowledges the door wasn't designed well and will look at doing something with the current door. The next generation of the remote will have an improved battery compartment.

Question: I would like the option to select "Switch" or "Accessory" output on the AIUs. As an example, with 2 AIUs I could get 34 switches and 6 accessories as opposed to needing 4 AIUs.
Answer: This is hardware problem. The AIU is nothing more than a box of relay with different relays for different uses. It can't be made to do what is being asked.

Category: PS2 ENGINES
Question: Smoking whistle and swinging bell - in April MTH said we'd see them this year. Is that still true or has the schedule slipped?
Answer: Will be out soon with the new boards . Should be 6-8 months.

Question: NYC ESE with scale tender - when will it ship? Will it be the first with the new electronics package?
Answer: Scale size tenders are coming.


SEE YOU ALL AT THE 9TH YORK DCS USER GROUP MEETING IN APRIL 2009!

Thanks Barry for the written report and all your efforts! Happy railroading!!-Don Klose

quote:

Originally posted by Barry Broskowitz:
...... Any errors or omissions, on the other hand, are most likely mine.

Don't let Barry try and fool ya - he doesn't miss a trick. He has filled in more than one of the omissions from the draft copy. Thanks Barry for orchestrating the meeting for the benefit of all of us who attended, and all here on OGR that can benefit from your idea keep a record of the discussions. As a relatively new DCS user, and forum participant, it was fun putting names to faces (Marty, Bob & Cajun), not to mention picking their brains. I expect this get together may be the best part of York for many!

Also, I need to add the one-liner of the night. We won't attribute the comment to anyone specifically but Jason made a recommendation to fix an engine problem and the response was "I can't get it up!" I don't have to tell you what the group response was!

Interesting that there was no information on better lashup performance. For the next meeting, could a question be presented to ask for an operator capability to preclude TMCC/Legacy engines from going to the inactive area when the "ALL" command is utilized? Barry thanks for the report.

quote:

Question: When building a Lash up of 6 units, one presses "start up" and then some units no marker lights; all the others are ok. Trying to address the units without marker lights yields “Engine not on track”. Happens in both Super and normal TIU mode.
Answer: Discussed, but no definitive answers.

Actually, there was quite a bit of discussion regarding lashups and MTH was made aware of several anomalies in this regard.

As far as your question is concerned, please wait 3-4 months until the next Q&A thread is posted.

This is very good to see MTH directly answering user's questions. Thank you for taking the time and effort to post and keep everyone informed.
Thanks again, Joe
(Should I assume that the new releases will include scale protocouplers????)

Hey guys thanks so much for proposing these questions and for taking the notes and posting the replies.

I see a coupe of mine got in there so although I didn't get the answers I was hoping for, I defiantly greatly appreciate that they were capable of being asked.

Thanks again.

Just to confirm, as MTH said they will do it if enough people want it. I REALLY do want the direction arrows, as well as the other icons. Speed adjustment during signal check is great too.

On my Premier engiens I never realized the tenders weren't scale? So does this mean I have to buy new tenders for all my engines? That could get costly. I would also like to see more icons to.

quote:

Originally posted by coasterp:
Just to confirm, as MTH said they will do it if enough people want it. I REALLY do want the direction arrows, as well as the other icons...

What we heard from them was it's a business decision - is there sufficent consumer demand to justify the expense of adding the icons to the controller screen? It's important you, and others for that matter, communicate with MTH directly so they hear from the consumer. We got the feeling some of the icons are no brainers (direction, smoke on/off).

I've often thought about writing directly to MTH to let them know about such things but really the only e-mail contact you have from their site is a general sales address which somehow just doesn't feel like it would be gettin done.

I supposed its better then nothing but it would be nice to know who is in charge of certain things and what their address were so that you could direct certain topics to the right people.

Thanks Barry,

It's almost like I was there with you guys a maybe not

quote:

Originally posted by Barry Broskowitz:

quote:

Question: When building a Lash up of 6 units, one presses "start up" and then some units no marker lights; all the others are ok. Trying to address the units without marker lights yields “Engine not on track”. Happens in both Super and normal TIU mode.
Answer: Discussed, but no definitive answers.

Actually, there was quite a bit of discussion regarding lashups and MTH was made aware of several anomalies in this regard.

As far as your question is concerned, please wait 3-4 months until the next Q&A thread is posted.

That was my question... thanks. *Man O' Man would I like to meet Andy E.!
It amazes me why he allows Service to act in the manor it does. I'm getting desperate Barry, Did Jason mention this?

quote:

Originally posted by Roger n NC:

quote:

Originally posted by Barry Broskowitz:
...... Any errors or omissions, on the other hand, are most likely mine.

Don't let Barry try and fool ya - he doesn't miss a trick. He has filled in more than one of the omissions from the draft copy. Thanks Barry for orchestrating the meeting for the benefit of all of us who attended, and all here on OGR that can benefit from your idea keep a record of the discussions. As a relatively new DCS user, and forum participant, it was fun putting names to faces (Marty, Bob & Cajun), not to mention picking their brains. I expect this get together may be the best part of York for many!

Also, I need to add the one-liner of the night. We won't attribute the comment to anyone specifically but Jason made a recommendation to fix an engine problem and the response was "I can't get it up!" I don't have to tell you what the group response was!

Thanks Roger for taking notes and doing such a wonderful job. And I too want to join you in thanking Barry and Marty for putting this meeting together. This is a great way of meeting the MTH executives and to raise the "Wish List" up to them. I was very impressed with MTH, for their willingness and openness in meeting with the group. It is easy to sit back and dream up the "Wish List", but another to priorities and fund the research and development. I left feeling like there was a clear committment on MTH's part to listen and properly evaluate each idea. But of course at the end of the process it all takes time and money. Mike Wolf and MTH have spent a great deal of time the last two years focusing on HO. As a result many improvements will be coming to O gauge as a result with the DCS hardware and software. While the MTH focus may be on European trains and the European market, only positive things will come to O gauge. Again thanks Roger, Barry and Marty for a wonderful evening, my first, but hopefully not my last.

Thom,

quote:

I'm getting desperate Barry, Did Jason mention this?

To exactly what are you referring that Jason may have mentioned?

quote:

Question: Will MTH be supporting or releasing their own computer based control of a DCS layout? (e.g., connect a computer to the TUI and run the trains)
Answer: MTH would need to do a cost/benefit analysis before developing a DCS-based layout control system. What should the price be for such a product? There are many questions that would have to be answered first.

All MTH would have do (at lest to my simple mind) is release the "front end" control codes which just gives the TIU its direction so its hardware does its magic. Not like MTH is giving away the firmware inside the TIU which is rightly proprietary and hands off. Would be like Microsoft not allowing developers the "hooks" to interface their game/medical/recipe (whatever program) package onto the Windows platform. The developers don't need to know how the Windows platfoerm works just that they pass these parameter into the platform and the magic happens and you see/hear the results.

MTH admits they are not a software house which is not their strong suite, so therefore turn that part loose and I am sure there are enough geniuses in the crowd who could whip up a slick interface. And if they promoted it like Barry's book (no cost to MTH) everyone wins. But guess I am preaching to the choir.

quote:

On my Premier engiens I never realized the tenders weren't scale? So does this mean I have to buy new tenders for all my engines? That could get costly.

Ralph4014,

This should only be for smaller Premier engines like the 4-4-0, 2-8-0, and a few other smaller engines. The larger engines should already be correct because their tenders are larger. I doubt the smaller tenders will be available separately. Most likely, the next run of those particular engines will have the updated tenders like the updated versions of the NYC ESE 4-4-0s in the new catalog.

quote:

• Correct flakey scrolling at low speeds
Answer: Will be corrected in the new platform. Until then Quickset Speed is a good workaround.

That's a little disappointing, after 6 or 7 years running super mode with no flaky scrolling issues we have to now put up with it. Why? Quick set speed is no way to run a switch engine.

I did e-mail MTH a couple of weeks ago on this issue but guess what... no reply.

If it's broke why not fix it with a patch or whatever, scrolling the engine speed is a big deal in super mode.