Gentlemen, I have been doing some reading on the other side of the forum and have heard nothing but raves about Fat Boy speakers in Lionel products. I did a web search and all leads went back to Lionel. Has anyone used one in an MTH engine?Size,compatibly of ohms and PS2 board sound drivers? If so could someone please provide a link to purchase one? Any info would be greatly appreciated. One never learns if one does not ask

FatBoy speakers = 8 ohms
MTH PS-2 speakers = 4 ohms

If you have room you could wire 2, 8 ohm speakers in parallel. I use the Digital Dynamic replacements,they are quite good.

Dale H

Farmboy,
Sean Chronister of Justrains has some insight on this and I believe has plans for working on a speaker swap for the MTH PS2 Engines to improve sound quality and volume hopefully.

Dale,
What is the over all sound like in quality and volume? I don't want to start a war here, but I am really going to have to be drop dead in love with my next MTH for me to go for it. The sounds are just not there compared to.........well lets just say others, for the sake of being diploamatic

http://www.digitdynam.com/speakers.html

Above is the performance chart for the DD standard 8 ohm speaker.They also offer a super one but it is not suitable for a lot of applications. If they can be mounted, space allowing, I think they are great,better to most stock speakers I have seen.. I have not purchased any new MTH engines in the past 5 years so I can not compare it to their more recent speakers used. As far as I know MTH does not publish specifications of their speakers response. Other things that contribute to sound quality is what quality of information is fed in and of course,baffling.

I found with the MTH diesels I have the speaker is mounted in the fuel tank with little attention paid to baffling. There is a lot of junk above it to rattle around. On my many PS1 MTH ABA units I generally mount Railsound 4 units in the dummy unit then I can make a nice baffle and turn the volume off on the PS1 system. I run only conventional. In a past OGR article MTH is working on making their boards more compact to allow room for a better quality speaker.

Impedance should be matched. 2, 8 ohm speakers in parallel should yield 4 ohms impedance. You could also put an 8 ohm resistor in parallel however the resistor would consume power and deliver nothing in return. As long as you match impedance any speakers that fit can be used. I never tried it but driving an 8 ohm speaker should not hurt the amplifier (that calls for 4 ohm),but the volume may be low.

Dale H

Paul,
Short,sweet and to the point Thank you

greg410,
I have read Sean's posts but did not know he with Justrains. Good info and I will give him a call when I'm ready to tinker. Thank you

Dale H,
Where do I start? I have learned more about electronics from your posts due to the fact you take the time to explain how it works which is appreciated more than you know. I have your post on doing LED conversions in passenger cars on file for this winter when I have time.

The reason I started this post was because I purchased a small collection of O gauge and the only MTH item was a 30-1265-1 4-8-4 SF Northern from 2002 with a 5V board and the sound and volume was unbelivable. Keep in mind these are all running under DCS @ 100% volume. I have 7 PS-2 engines and the Northern is far louder and clearer. Please keep in mind I have a 4 tier ceilng layout in a 10x12 room so one can hear the difference! I have a GS2 30-11 which at 100% was drowned out by the Northern. I had to set the Northern at 60% volume to hear both engines.

This got me thinking which is hard to do but I loaded the northern file in a RK SD-45 which is my crash test dummy engine ,after the upload I did the master volume increase to 100% and rechecked the volume with the sound menu and the difference was night and day...not even close!!

The volume reminds me of the early PS-1 Premier models that could rattle a room.

Once again

Hi Farmboy

Thank you for the kind words. I would recommend cutting volume down to 80% or less. Speaker should last longer that way. The rattle sound can be from loose parts or even the speaker itself,either the cone separating or junk inside. We ask a lot from any 2 inch speaker driving them at the level we do. The DD speakers are pretty rugged and have pretty good efficiency.

Dale H

PS2 is capable of driving some large speakers very loud. In large scale we can use 3" speakers cranked 100% volume all day. We use O Gauge sound files and some are very loud but others aren't. We use aftermarket German as nothing else will compare.

Here's a pair of one gauge USA Trains GP38's that my converted to DCS that just rock!! Then again it's just typical PS2 driving 3" speakers.

USA GP38's

quote:

Originally posted by CRH:
PS2 is capable of driving some large speakers very loud. In large scale we can use 3" speakers cranked 100% volume all day. We use O Gauge sound files and some are very loud but others aren't. We use aftermarket German as nothing else will compare.

Here's a pair of one gauge USA Trains GP38's that my converted to DCS that just rock!! Then again it's just typical PS2 driving 3" speakers.

USA GP38's

WOW!

What's the impedence on the speakers you're using?

hi farmboy, I have an mth unshrouded j that i bought from TRAINZ on ebay. When i put it on the tracks the speaker was damaged.. Tried an experiment with fatboy speakers and installed two of them in the tender.I had to make some modifications to the tender floor and cut some oblong holes to let the sound out.I then soldered the speakers together and covered the tender and fired the baby up.Its the loudest loco i have right now and when i hit the labored chuff it sounds like fireworks going off.hpoe this will help you i suggest you give it a try Vinndiesel

Problem I'm having with this whole speaker topic is...

loud != good

I want good clear sound that isn't loud. I find that when running 4-5 trains in the room that loud sound is overwhelming. I like to hear the loco that is passing by me and want to hear it clearly and in a realistic manner.

On mth loco's I like the wishhhh wishhh sound at startup and then chuffing and after that switch to clicky clack. Ever listen to a real steam engine go by at 30-40 mph. They don't go chuff chuff chuff. It's more of a hiss and whoosh with a lot of clanking and clungking and they aren't actually all that loud unless they are going up a grade. I prefer not hearing the chuff chuff chuff of a steam engine at the other end of the room.

Here is a good speaker to try. I am still waiting on my new locomotive for conversion but am looking at all the different options. With this speaker its a 2" 4ohm and may work but needs a bit more space.

Michael,
That speaker looks fantastic. Good reviews. First concern is it's a 2 inch speaker with a lot of material around it making it even wider. Will it fit in an O scale tender? Exactly how big is it? If it's narrow enough I could mount it in any ATSF oil burner tender.

Michael I purchased one of those speakers to try it and it arrived yesterday. It is a great looking speaker and I tried it temporarily in a Santa Fe Northern that I had just done an upgrade on to PS-2 and knew there was nothing above the speaker to interfer with the much higher height. It does sound nice, the chuff sound is much deeper although I did notice a slightly lower volume level on the PFA sounds but not enough to warrent not using them. As I tried it on the test track on my work bench it was funny when I pressed the labored chuff button the chuff was so deep that items sitting near the track started to vibrate from the bass. What I did find out is that you have to put some washers between the speaker and the frame when you mount it as the speaker has a rubbery lip that protrudes out a little and tightening it down without offsetting it restricts the speaker movement. I need to get some hardware as I didn't have the correct size screws and washers to mount it permanently. I will check the hardware store today however I think the smaller sizes will have to come from Micro Fastners as I don't usually find the smaller stuff at the hardware stores. As soon as I do I will post pics and a video so y'all can see and hear the difference.

Paul,

Cool deal! Thanks for the feedback. I can't wait to get my FEF from 3rd Rail... because its a 2 rail model it doesn't have sound so I've got a PS2.0 kit waiting for it. I will likely us the same speaker for its deep bass. My thoughts on mounting for proper acoustics, the important thing to do is make sure the front baffle is sealed from the rear baffle. The bad thing about open air mounting is cancellation, the rear waves will cancel the front waves. A quick dirty test is to put the speaker in a shoe box with the right size hole. To solve the mounting problem I was thinking a multi-layer cardboard or styrene shim around the frame so the rubber surround can move freely when mounting.

Does anyone know of a good 16 ohm replacement speaker for an older MTH 5v board? I searched the link posted here and did not see a 2" 16 ohm one. Thanks.

Tommy44\

Try the MTH Hobby Shop near you, or order one from a shop. I needed one and called the shop and they mailed it out to me. $10.00 plus shipping. So far only could locate one from MTH.

Mort

Mike good idea of the cardboard or styrene shim. I think I will cut the right size hole out of a piece of 1/4" thick styrene and use that between the speaker and the tender floor.

Cool! Thanks for for confirmation that these will fit in a large tender.

Just ordered a bunch -D

They'll fit as long as the boards don't go over the speaker, they are a lot higher then the stock speaker.

Shouldn't be a problem. All the steamer I would use this speaker in already have a "speaker house" built for the MTH speaker that goes from floor to ceiling inside the tender.

The loco's I plan to put these in are:

ATSF: 5011, 5012, 3751, 3752, 3816, 1792, 1796.

Here's a pic of one of the tender houses already built:

From new Y3

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy44:
Does anyone know of a good 16 ohm replacement speaker for an older MTH 5v board? I searched the link posted here and did not see a 2" 16 ohm one. Thanks.

Tommy

My recollection is that some of these were 8 ohm. Look at the speaker you want to replace before ordering. The value is stamped on the back of the speaker. Do not replace an 8 ohm speaker with a 4 ohm one, you could damage the amplifier.

Dale H

I have a question for you guys regarding this speaker.

If you go to use them for a tender that already has the speaker system, do you have to make any modifications to that mounting area?

Do you have to drill new holes to mount it or are there holes already there from the existing speaker and do the just line right up?

Basically I would really like to try these but I don't want to have to hack up the existing unit and/or make it irreversible to revert it back to the original setup if I don't really like it or would have to send the unit back to MTH for some other issue.

Thanks

Wouldn't say I had to hacked it up....

It will require spacers so that the speaker isn't flush up against the frame as it happens the screw holes are in the same spot. I made 4 spacers and built a sealed sound box.

After using spacer washers for clearance apply a bead of soft silicone around speaker frame and washers.. The longer movement of the speaker cone towards the frame is where additional Bass comes from but it must be SEALED so as not to cancel out mixing with the back of the speaker cone! Seal from the front of the speaker to the frame hole the sound goes out. Don't let the sealer get under the speaker frame to interfere with the cone movement. Seal straight down around the frame of the speaker and around the spacers. Seal it for the best low sounds advantage...

quote:

Originally posted by AGHRMatt:

quote:

Originally posted by CRH:
PS2 is capable of driving some large speakers very loud. In large scale we can use 3" speakers cranked 100% volume all day. We use O Gauge sound files and some are very loud but others aren't. We use aftermarket German as nothing else will compare.

Here's a pair of one gauge USA Trains GP38's that my converted to DCS that just rock!! Then again it's just typical PS2 driving 3" speakers.

USA GP38's

WOW!

What's the impedence on the speakers you're using?

Hi there Matt,

It was a 4 ohm speaker.

Hi Guys,
I've got a question about the sound system in a 20-3238-1 UP 4-4-0 I bought at York. I don't know if anyone has one of these but I've found the sound system to be absolutely awful. I can barely hear the whistle and bell and the chugging sounds are not much better. Actually, the loudest sound is the smoke fan motor and that is really annoying. I sent it back to MTH and was told that the tender can only house a very small speaker and nothing can be done. I find it hard to believe that MTH would find this acceptable as a Premier quality engine. The question is, does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve the sound, perhaps with one of the apeakers that is being discussed here? I've done all the adjustments on the sound button on the tender and the options on DCS.
Thanks
Ed Kazarian ,
Massachusetts

Here is an update guys, I finally found fatboy speakers at my LHS and installed them in a RK GS-2. The factory speaker was 16ohm so I wired the 8ohm fatboys in series.Installed the first one under the original speaker cover with a trimmed 1 1/2 firehose washer on the tender floor and an 1/8 rubber spacer on top,perfect fit.Being F/Bs are 1 1/2" dia. the second one fit in a 1" PVC pipe cap and used an O ring for floor spacing,spaced the top and siliconed the cap to the drilled floor. Works like a million bucks,far better and louder than the original. I'm very happy,so happy I went back and bought more!

I spoke to Shawn at York about his thoughts on improving the MTH sound with different speakers. He was very kind to spend all the time I needed with him even though things were pretty busy at Just Trains. The bottom line of our conversation is that he has been giving the speakers some thought but has not had time to work on this project. He was hoping to work on the speaker issue in the near future. My understanding was that he was having trouble finding a 4 ohm speaker that would improve the sound and fit into the MTH engines consistently. I think he will update us when he has made some progress.
Ed

Farmboy,

What is the Part Number of the Speakers you purchased?

Thanks!

Springoflife,

I'm sorry I have no part number but my LHS has more on order if you are interested.
The Western Depot
Yuba City Ca.
530-673-6776

ask for Robert F
closed S/M