I have two z4000's on the layout. Each handle is connected to the fixed input of a separate TIU channel (layout has two TIU's). Each channel output from the TIU then goes to a terminal block for a geographical section of the layout, each of which is isolated by the center rail disconnect. TIU's are powered by Radio Shack 18 volts.

These are new Z4000's.

When all transformers are turned on, one handle on one of the transformers shows 1.2 volts or something near that. Turning the handle up will never increase the voltage to 18 volts--stays at 1 or 2 volts plus a decimal point reading as in 2.7 volts.

Is this caused by some track issue where perhaps some section is not really isolated?

Thanks for your help.

john l

John,

Disconnect all wires from all terminals on the back of the Z4000. If the problem persists, you've got a defective Z4000.

Sounds like there is a wire off of the potentiometer, or else the pot is defective. These can be changed by most ASC's, I have done a couple myself. I am in eastern PA, if I can be of any help. If the Z4k would have to go to MTH, I have a friend who picks up at the MTH facility frequently, saving shipping costs back and forth.

Hang on guys. I've run into this before when using more than one Z-4000. There may not be a problem.

John, when you turn on and power up the transformers how do you do it?

A - You turn Z4K #1 and run up the throttles. Then you turn on Z4K #2 and run up the throttles.

B - You turn on Z4K #1 and Z4K #2. Then you run up the throttles on each transformer.


Your answer will be very telling.

Thanks all for your responses.

I believe I have turned on the power, usually, first to both transformers. Then, I pull up the throttles on each transformer in succession.

It seems that I cannot see a consistency to the issue. Sometimes I have found that both transformers for both throttles will show 18 volts as I expect. Then, the next time, one transformer or the other (I have found it is not always the same transformer) will show in one or both track throttles a low voltage reading with decimal points and not go up beyond 3 or so volts regardless of how high the throttle is set. The low voltage reading never occurs on both transformers at the same time.

I look forward to your responses.

Many thanks for you help.

john l

John,

quote:

Disconnect all wires from all terminals on the back of the Z4000. If the problem persists, you've got a defective Z4000.

Did you do as I previously posted.

Dave:

I have just tried A and B starting procedures as you describe above.

It seems it made no difference, and, this time regardless of how I turn on the transformers, all throttles go to 18 volts.

I notice, however, that on transformer #2, when I turn up the track 1 handle, the volts on track 2 go to about 15 before I even move the track 2 throttle.

Does this mean I have a track block that is not isolated from the next block somehow?

As I am running long passenger trains (16 or so lighted cars, not LED), the errors seem to change as the cars are on different parts of the layout.

Also, now I find that I am getting OUT OF RANGE error on TIU (I have two TIU's powered by 18 volt Radio Shack) for one of my engines. When I try to find the version # in the remote for TIU #2, it says out of range error message. The red lights are on both TIU's. Yesterday, an engine was found just fine, but today says its address cannot be found and so cannot fire it up. New batteries in the remote. TIU's in vertical, recommended position. Even when I put the remote right next to the TIU #2, it still says OUT of RANGE when I try to find the version # of DCS it is running. I have them in Super TIU mode. When I set TIU #2 in super mode, the remote responds that it has done that for TIU #2.

Any suggestions? Thanks for your help in advance.

john l

Barry:

Yes, I disconnected all wires going to the TIU's on both transformers and found both throttle up to 18 volts on both tracks.

However, I notice on one transformer that when the power is turned on, the volts on both tracks read 0.1 volts with all wires disconntected.

Is this just a calibration error in the transformer and no problem?

john l

John,

quote:

I disconnected all wires going to the TIU's on both transformers and found both throttle up to 18 volts on both tracks.

If the problem does not occur when the Z4000 is disconnected from the TIU channels, that suggests that there's some kind of a wiring problem downstream from the Z4000 that has the problem when it's connected to the TIU.

quote:

However, I notice on one transformer that when the power is turned on, the volts on both tracks read 0.1 volts with all wires disconntected.

That's not at all unusual and is not a problem.

Barry:

Thanks for your note above re: Z4000's.

I am using 14 gauge stranded wire for all connections from transformers to TIU's to terminal block and then to the lockons. All have u spades attached at connections.

I am finding just now when I am trying to get an mth engine recognized, that regardless of which track section it is on (run by TIU 1 or 2--both in super mode) that it first says check track or out of range and then finally adds it one time as engine address 98 (next time 96) and gets no info on the engine name.

I guess I will try tethering the remote to the TIU's and see what happens?

Why does one transformer give a reading on track 2 of about 15 volts when only track 1 thottle is turned up to 18 volts?

Many thanks in advance for your help.

john l

quote:

Why does one transformer give a reading on track 2 of about 15 volts when only track 1 thottle is turned up to 18 volts?

John,

You have a lighted car that is straddling the gap between a block fed by throttle 1 and a block fed by throttle 2. The power from throttle 1 is back feeding the throttle 2 volt meter through the car. Roll the car off of the gap and you'll see the throttle 2 volt meter drop to zero.

PS. It could be an engine, or something else with two rollers.

quote:

It could be an engine, or something else with two rollers

Or the center rails could actually not be isolated.

quote:

Originally posted by Barry Broskowitz:

quote:

It could be an engine, or something else with two rollers

Or the center rails could actually not be isolated.

True, but in that case it would be consistant and totally repeatable.

quote:

It seems it made no difference, and, this time regardless of how I turn on the transformers, all throttles go to 18 volts.

I notice, however, that on transformer #2, when I turn up the track 1 handle, the volts on track 2 go to about 15 before I even move the track 2 throttle.


As I am running long passenger trains (16 or so lighted cars, not LED), the errors seem to change as the cars are on different parts of the layout.

quote:

Also, now I find that I am getting OUT OF RANGE error on TIU (I have two TIU's powered by 18 volt Radio Shack) for one of my engines. When I try to find the version # in the remote for TIU #2, it says out of range error message. The red lights are on both TIU's. Yesterday, an engine was found just fine, but today says its address cannot be found and so cannot fire it up. New batteries in the remote. TIU's in vertical, recommended position. Even when I put the remote right next to the TIU #2, it still says OUT of RANGE when I try to find the version # of DCS it is running. I have them in Super TIU mode. When I set TIU #2 in super mode, the remote responds that it has done that for TIU #2.

Any suggestions? Thanks for your help in advance.

If you're still having problems with the TIU , make sure you have the correct TIU number added to your remote.When power is first applied to the TIU a red led on top of the tiu blinks, the number of blinks is the actual TIU number so a one blinker would be TIU #1... 2 blinks means the tiu is TIU #2 and so on.
If you have the proper tiu added to the remote, the read should find each one. If not you have a problem , you could try tethering the remote to each TIU and see if the remote can then find each one.

You have it get the remote to find each tiu before you can go much further.

On earlier versions of the DCs software the TIU could not be set to "super" unless the remote was communicating with the tiu, however with 4.1 the remote will tell you the tiu has been set to super whether the remote & tiu are communicating or not. I suppose this is a minor issue but there seem to be a lot of minor issues with 4.1

Don't forget each tiu must be set to "super" in each remote. (again you may think the tiu has been set to super but you won't really know until you run a engine from one tiu zone to another with control on both tiu zones,)

Anyway hope this helps... check out the led blinks.

I have upgraded the two TIU's and the remote from 4.01 to 4.10; however, this does not seem to have any affect on my issues.

When I set TIU #1 and #2 (these are their addresses in the remote) to super mode, the remote says both have been set in super mode.

However, when I when I try to check the TIU software version in the TIU menu in the remote, the remote only responds with a 4.10 for TIU #1. I try to find version for TIU #2 and remote, after awhile, says OUT of RF RANGE and never returns the TIU version.

Could this indicate that somehow TIU #2 is not working properly and causing my issues?

I am going to remove all cars and have only one engine on the entire layout to see if I can better track this down. Does the issue of having cars traverse different TIU's cause trouble?

john l


john l

quote:

I am going to remove all cars and have only one engine on the entire layout to see if I can better track this down. Does the issue of having cars traverse different TIU's cause trouble?

john l

No I don't think that's going to help right now. I believe the first part of DCS trouble shooting is making sure the TIU and remote are communicating, If they're not you're dead in the water... I think we posted at the exact same time, read my previous post.

The second part is usually track signal related, Brief answer I know but you need both working to successfully run DCS.

quote:

I try to find version for TIU #2 and remote, after awhile, says OUT of RF RANGE and never returns the TIU version.

Tether the remote to TIU #2 and try again. If it works, it's possible that TIU #2's transceiver has floated out of its socket.

Well...thanks to all of you who responded to my issue.

I have Barry's DCS book and thought I read and understood the section on adding TIU's to a multiple TIU operation. Obviously I failed to understand.

Thanks to Gregg for reminding me about the startup blinks on the TIU's. In the remote I thought I had TIU's # 1 and #2. But when I observed the blinking, both TIU's blinked one time.

Finally I deleted and added and moved the addresses as Barry instructed in his book.

All seems fine now. I believe this was the source of all the issues noted above. I now have been able to find and add all the engines, etc. Both Z4000's read voltage the way it should be at 18 volts each handle.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read and offer suggestions. This forum is really great! Otherwise, I fear I may have given up and sent a good engine back to MTH for repair thinking it was the engine and not me who needed some repair.

john l

quote:

Originally posted by dave hikel:
Hang on guys. I've run into this before when using more than one Z-4000. There may not be a problem.

John, when you turn on and power up the transformers how do you do it?

A - You turn Z4K #1 and run up the throttles. Then you turn on Z4K #2 and run up the throttles.

B - You turn on Z4K #1 and Z4K #2. Then you run up the throttles on each transformer.


Your answer will be very telling.

In that thread I noted I had tried both of the above methods of firing up the transformers and did not make a difference.

Now, however, after having both transformers working properly with their TIU's, the behavior Dave notes above has appeared.

1. If I turn on both transformers first, then raise the handles on both, the voltage goes to 18 or whatever is desired on all four handles.

2. If, on the other hand, I turn on one transformer and its handles raised, and then the second is turned on and its handles raised, the strange decimal voltage readings show up as 2.1, etc., and will not go up much higher even with the handle up all the way on that track.

Why does this happen and what does it mean? Is it indicative of some problem on my layout with wiring or other things?

Many thanks for your help.

john l

quote:

Originally posted by dave hikel:
Hang on guys. I've run into this before when using more than one Z-4000. There may not be a problem.

John, when you turn on and power up the transformers how do you do it?

A - You turn Z4K #1 and run up the throttles. Then you turn on Z4K #2 and run up the throttles.

B - You turn on Z4K #1 and Z4K #2. Then you run up the throttles on each transformer.


Your answer will be very telling.

I am hoping Dave Hikel will let me know what the above means as this is exactly what is happening on my layout as he describes above.

john l