Williams just came out with their 2009 catalog They announce a Peter Witt Street car There are 5 different versions Chicago Surface Lines, Brooklyn and Queens Transit, Baltimore transit, Los Angeles Railway and St Louis Railways. You can see them here Give it a little time takes awhile to open

http://www.williamstrains.com/2009/2009WBB.pdf

They look great. It looks like Bachmann is really changing Williams. I hope the prices stay nice. I was envying these in HO and now have my wish.Great.

I'm not a huge trolley fan, but those New Haven Checkerboard engines are pretty cool.

I will be buying the Chicago and Baltimore versions. Nice to see Williams doing an O gauge trolley.

Rather ironic that the Bowser trolley was just dicontinued and Williams came out with a new car. This Peter Witt is a model that ran in Baltimore.Unless you are a nit picker you can use it for the other lines that they list.It is also a new source for power trucks for 3 rail trolleys.Have to get one and see what I can kit bash from it.My friend who runs 3 rail trolleys will get the power truck.

Williams chose their prototype well with the Peter Witt. Unfortunately mine will need front end surgery.
NYSR (Syracuse) #1002

TECHIE
Your Syracuse Witt was built by Kuhlman and as afar as I am concerned they built some of the most graceful looking cars.I think New York State Railways also used them in Utica and International had a fleet of them in Buffalo.The Toronto cars built by Canadian Car and Foundry varied from these although there were variations in length and windows for the lines that used the Car Rider Witts.I look forward to seeing your finished model. There aren't many of us who model the lines in central and western New York.
I am a little suprised that Williams did not come out with a Detroit car as they were a major user of Witts.

Oops...I'm going to need the Cleveland Transit version as well! That makes three of them that I'll have to save up for. I see they also come equipped with bell sound. I can't wait to get my hands on one!

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Culliton:
TECHIE
Your Syracuse Witt was built by Kuhlman and as afar as I am concerned they built some of the most graceful looking cars.

Yup, "Gus's boys" built the best cars. G.C. Kuhlman was a German cabinet maker who went into the horse car business after he emigrated to the United States. His company was populated by the finest craftsmen in the business.

Here's NYSR #1036 arriving at the Central NY Chapter NRHS museum at Central Square, NY;

I sure hope they're sur l'eau soon! Sometimes
Bachmann announces these things a loooong time
in advance!

Sure is good news for 3-railers! I'll need
a Baltimore, Brooklyn, and maybe Cleveland.

Lee

quote:

Originally posted by Lee Carlson:
I sure hope they're sur l'eau soon! Sometimes
Bachmann announces these things a loooong time
in advance!
Lee

I agree with you. Mike Surlo (me) can hardly wait to round out the noses on a couple of those things and put them on my layout.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Culliton:
TECHIE
Your Syracuse Witt was built by Kuhlman and as afar as I am concerned they built some of the most graceful looking cars.I think New York State Railways also used them in Utica and International had a fleet of them in Buffalo.The Toronto cars built by Canadian Car and Foundry varied from these although there were variations in length and windows for the lines that used the Car Rider Witts.I look forward to seeing your finished model. There aren't many of us who model the lines in central and western New York.
I am a little suprised that Williams did not come out with a Detroit car as they were a major user of Witts.

What system do you model? Buffalo?

Boy, these look sharp. I wonder how much they'll be.

Are they scale?

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Finn:
Are they scale?

They look scale.

Is this the "sowbelly" trolley?

quote:

Originally posted by DominicMazoch:
Is this the "sowbelly" trolley?

Nope, "Sowbellys" were center entrance low door cars on the Los Angeles Ry.

Here's a bit more info about the Peter Witt cars. A disclaimer: This is from Wikipedia, so I can't vouch for its complete accuracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Witt_streetcar

We have a Toronto Witt (2898) at Branford
(Shore Line Trollley Museum) that I
really like. It's fun to run, and can
really swallow up the crowds.

Lee

The Williams catalog shows HO models as examples of the Peter Witt streetcars for O gauge. That disclaimer is near the bottom of the streetcar page.

This is an increasingly common thing in model train advertising among a number of producers. It sees to me that what you might get may not quite be what the picture shows.

I'd rather see one of the O gauge orfferings, than to buy one on the basis of an HO scale picture.

Ed Bommer

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Bommer:
The Williams catalog shows HO models as examples of the Peter Witt streetcars for O gauge. That disclaimer is near the bottom of the streetcar page.

This is an increasingly common thing in model train advertising among a number of producers. It sees to me that what you might get may not quite be what the picture shows.

I'd rather see one of the O gauge orfferings, than to buy one on the basis of an HO scale picture.

Ed Bommer

I hope you're right and Williams uses a more typical Peter Witt design.

My guess is that the Williams by Bachmann model will be a very close representation of the HO model depicted in the catalog (and of the prototype). Manufacturers have been using models from other scales for catalog depictions for a great many years--perfectly understandable since the items are still in the pre-production stages when catalogs are published.

quote:

Originally posted by J. S. Bach:
Now if only Williams would sell it in a non-powered version.

Tell you what, Dave. Maybe we can work a deal here. I'll buy one, remove the power trucks for one of my other projects and sell you the shell. Which road name would you like?

Elliot

Hope WBB buys the Bowser Line!

quote:

Originally posted by DominicMazoch:
Hope WBB buys the Bowser Line!

I hope an AMERICAN company acquires the Bowser tooling.

quote:

Originally posted by techie:

quote:

Originally posted by DominicMazoch:

Hope WBB buys the Bowser Line!

I hope an AMERICAN company acquires the Bowser tooling.

Go to the Bachmann website and tell them that.

www.bachmanntrains.com

click the USA flag
click on Ask the Bach Man
Go to the Williams by Bachmann section.
See the Peter Witt thread which I've started,
and add your comments, or start a new thread.
The more input Bachmann receives, the more likely
something like that will happen.

It just takes a minute to join the site, if you're
not already a member.

Lee

quote:

Hope WBB buys the Bowser Line!

Not me! In my opinion, and as one who has a pretty healthy collection of O gauge trolleys, there are a number of trolleys out there today that are better in terms of detailing, construction, operation, and price.

The Brooklyn and Queens Transit rostered 535 "Peter Witts" car nos. 8000 through 8534. They were constructed by St Louis Car co, Brill and Osgood Bradley. These cars all looked about the same. They had rounded ends as opposed to the sort of squared off end that the Bachman HO model has and presume the O gauge model will have. Also The B&QT cars had two poles, one on each end as well as entry doors at each end . There were center doors on both sides. The cars were delivered in a maroon and cream scheme and were eventually in the City Board of Transportation colors, green and silver late in their careers . I can recall seeing both color schemes in service at the same time.

These cars were one man cars on the B&QT and passengers paid on entry in the front of the car. 35 of the cars were operated as single ended cars and were used on routes that had turning loops .These however still retained the original door and two pole configuration even though it was not used that way. The Peter Witts operated on just about every BQ&T route at one point or another. They were the epitome of the Brooklyn Trolley and outnumbered the single ended PCC and 6000 series cars.

I can remember seeing and riding these from Williamsburg Bridge Plaza into Brooklyn, Queens and across the Williamsburg Bridge. Fare was 5 Cents before 1948 and there was a station on the Bridge at Bedford ave. You could get on there rather than the Plaza and ride to the underground terminal at Delancy Street in Manhattan and the fare was just 2 cents for this segment. Still there were many folks that would walk over the bridge rather than taking the Trolley!

I would hope that when Bachman releases the O gauge model of the B&QT cars, that they do it with the rounded ends and the two pole and double ended door configuration as used on the B&QT. Put me in for both colors schemes, the as delivered and the Board of Transportation colors.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan Miller:

quote:

Hope WBB buys the Bowser Line!

Not me! In my opinion, and as one who has a pretty healthy collection of O gauge trolleys, there are a number of trolleys out there today that are better in terms of detailing, construction, operation, and price.

Allan,

As a newbie in this branch of the hobby, I'm just learning.
Would it be ethical for you to mention the other brands/manufacturers
out there? I know about Western Hobbycraft, and own 2 of them. I also
have a few Corgis to be powered, and 1 Lionel trolley that I've bashed
into my line car. Also have 2 Bowser streetcars.
It would be very helpful to learn of more. I looked
into Q-Car, but they don't want anything to do with 3 rail. Too bad,
as living in Connecticut, I'd love to have their Conn Co cars.

Lee

Contemporary makers of O gauge trolleys that I'm familiar with include:

Lionel
MTH
Atlas O/Industrial Rail
Corgi
Western Hobbycraft
K-Line by Lionel

I think that's about it for the contemporary 3-rail O gauge scene.

Except for the very best O-scale trolley modelmaker, St. Petersburg Tram Collection. All SPTC models are unpowered; however, good quality motorized trucks are available. The result is unsurpassed quality. Although many models are available, no Peter Witts at present, unfortunately.

Trouble with the St. Petersburg cars is
that the ones I've seen average around
$500 a pop for an unpowered car. Beautiful,
but one can't have very many. At least I can't.
Lee

Both criticisms valid. However, nothing comes close to St. Petersburg for accuracy. They are unquestionably the most expensive O-scale trolleys, although Custom Traxx is now offering more than twenty SPTC trolleys from an estate sale for as little as $200 apiece.

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Bommer:
The Williams catalog shows HO models as examples of the Peter Witt streetcars for O gauge. That disclaimer is near the bottom of the streetcar page.

This is an increasingly common thing in model train advertising among a number of producers. It sees to me that what you might get may not quite be what the picture shows.

I'd rather see one of the O gauge orfferings, than to buy one on the basis of an HO scale picture.

Ed Bommer

There is a pic of an O scale production model on the Williams home page http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/index.php scroll to picture 11

I guess I'll have to get out my razor saw to fix that ugly Baltimore flat face. You'd think Williams would have done their research. What's the point of going for a common prototype when you select an oddball version and an UGLY one at that. At least I can fix the UGLY. 99% of today's operators wouldn't dare modify their trains. They'll just pass.

Wow! Had the pre-production prototype model in my hands today at York! It's a beauty! Finished interiors. Nice details. Underfloor drive! May have to buy one of each!

Elliot

quote:

Originally posted by railfare:
Wow! Had the pre-production prototype model in my hands today at York! It's a beauty! Finished interiors. Nice details. Underfloor drive! May have to buy one of each!

Elliot

That underfloor drive is great news for 3 rail trolley modelers.
2 questions:

1. Do the sideframes have axle bearings? If the bearings are "inboard", changing the sideframes is EASY, making the trucks even more versatile.

2. Any idea on MSRP?

Another item that was (possibly) overlooked in all the York reports--Weaver had one of the Western Hobbycraft trolleys on display at their booth. They're considering offering them as part of their lineup. I mentioned to them that if they go ahead with this, to stock the trolley poles as a repair part, as there would be some demand for them (using as an example the snit Q-Car got into over a customer who let it slip that he was buying the Q poles for a WH trolley)

---PCJ

Did you guys/gals look at the pickup roller assemblies? They are really tiny.
There are 2 per truck. I think this is going to be a serious problem. The bodies look great.

Pau

I examined the model at the grandstand meeting, and noted the size of the pickup rollers--but they seemed to be a necessary concession to the (apparently) scale-size wheels and low-floor powertrain. What sort of "serious problem" were you alluding to?

---PCJ

Modeling a trolley or streetcar-
I would only model them in 2 rail,not 3.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SIRT,

Like some others here, I had the opportunity to examine the pre-production prototype of the Williams by Bachmann streetcar at our York forum meeting. All I can say is that there will be several of them added to my collection. Truly a very nice looking car, and a very nice counterpart for the Western Hobbycraft trolleys which I have long considered as setting the standard for 3-rail O gauge trolleys.

That's encouraging, Allan. I know I'll be among the buyers.
Lee

I just read that Bachmann will require dealers to sign an agreement that
they will not sell the cars for less than the MSRP of $200.00. That's a
good price for a nice car like that, in my opinion.

Lee

quote:

I just read that Bachmann will require dealers to sign an agreement that
they will not sell the cars for less than the MSRP of $200.00.

And you read that where, Lee?

I read it in the "O Scale Traction" Yahoo group.
It said that there will be a "price floor" agreement.

Lee

I cannot accept this Peter Witt car unless it gets a round front like that ran in Queens, Brooklyn & New York City.

I, for one will be all over this trolley. Probably the Toronto livery.

I am so happy to see more and more 0 3-rail traction popping up beyond the bump and goes. Now if we could just get MTH (or somebody) to do a prewar air-electric PCC, I'd be stoked