I have found a company that is planning to produce O scale models of the PATH PA-4 cars. Please visit http://islandmodelworks.com/Subway.html and scroll down to the PA-4 section. Please send an email to the address listed on the website saying that you are interested and, if possible, how many cars you might want. You'll also notice a photo of an HO scale PA-4 model which should give you some idea of what the O scale car would look like.

Please be sure to send the email so that the company is aware of all the interest. I am not an owner/employee of the company, just a PATH fan passing the info along.

quote:

Originally posted by katanadriver:
I have found a company that is planning to produce O scale models of the PATH PA-4 cars. Please visit http://islandmodelworks.com/Subway.html and scroll down to the PA-4 section. Please send an email to the address listed on the website saying that you are interested and, if possible, how many cars you might want. You'll also notice a photo of an HO scale PA-4 model which should give you some idea of what the O scale car would look like.

Please be sure to send the email so that the company is aware of all the interest. I am not an owner/employee of the company, just a PATH fan passing the info along.

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Thanks.
Many of us have ordered the H.O. SIRT Cars several weeks ago.
Joe is considering them in O scale for us as well.
LIRR''s to follow.
He also has all the decals for the transit and subway cars.

We will have to buy the MTH Standards,swapp the shells and change the sounds/station stops.





Steve P.
SIRT

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SIRT,

Have any of you guys purchased the LIRR M7's in the Ho scale? If so are they highly detailed and easy to assemble?
Also are they planning M7's in Ho scale?

HO? Whats that

I think HO is oatmeal

I wouldn't buy any O Scale shells unless they were made to bolt on to a real chassis with motors. MTH, lionel, etc. The question is, can this company do this? You know how all these brass sets with the motors and gears work. They wear out, break down, a horror show for those who like to actually run their trains. OK for the collector who runs them once in a while around the track at five miles an hour (115 mph slower than my preferred running speed) to show them off to a friend.

I would have no problem picking up another set of Standards and swapping the shells to make up a four car set. I would love to have a set of STATEN ISLAND cars. As far as the sound files, you can't just change the station stops etc. I spoke with the MTH techs many times about the sound files when I was working on the MONEY TRAIN. The bottom line is they talk out of there you know what, and you will get no help.

The stumbling block with these sorts of offerings is always the prospect of powering them. On the HO scale models, they mention powering them with Bowser power trucks. This is okay, because Bowser sells powered chassis in HO that can be adapted to fit in these bodies.

What do you do in O gauge? Williams offers a kit to power dummy diesels, but that won't work for a rapid-transit car--the trucks are far too big. The announcement mentions that the kit would include trucks, but is it just a truck sideframe or a truck with wheels and no obvious way of powering them?

If the Methodology powered wheelsets were still around, it would be a no-brainer to buy kits like these, since these need only to be inserted into a sideframe and the motors braced aganst the bolster--which is not rocket science to anyone with a small amount of model-building ability. Small outfits like Island Modelworks would have a far easier time getting the number of commitments needed to produce models like these (they are asking for 20 reservations to greenlight this project) if the uncertainty of scrounging up repair parts or cannibalizing existing models to make them run, were removed.

For what it's worth, I would try to spring for a 6-car set if I could make them operable (I don't even need sound or command-control functionality) without cartwheeling through flaming hoops to get the necessary parts.

---PCJ

I would also be curious about the truck frames in O scale. However, Walthers (and now Keil Line) made a "suburban" truck that is a very close match to the General Steel Castings trucks under SIRT standard MUE cars. What would be needed is to add the third-rail shoe beam and fusebox to each side frame as well as the ICC required safety guards ("cow catchers") mounted on the outer ends of each truck.

For power, (I'm in 2 rail O scale) either a Q car power unit or Magic Carpets from NWSL would run them. As it was, SIRT ran them singly and in trains of up to three cars. Five or six cars was about the maximum train length in the late 1960's, given SIRT's short station platforms.

In 1956 I built an O gauge full-length model of an SIRT MUE car out of wood and cardstock with a Masonite floor. A Lionel power truck and E unit from the GM diesel switcher was used to power it. I was able to measure an SIRT MUE car at the Clifton Car Shop and drew up a set of plans in O scale. The model also featured working headlights and tail markers at each end, which were controlled by miniature switches under the car. It requried a minimum radius of about 36".

Unfortunately a year or so after I built it, my SIRT 355 ran off the end of a track on a friend's hi-rail (early 3RS) layout and hit the concrete floor below, wrecking the wooden body. Its power truck and E unit later went into an O gauge American Flyer "Pioneer Zephyr" set some one had given me, with a motor that would not run.

Ed Bommer

quote:

Originally posted by bluelinec4:
HO? Whats that

DITTO.

I just wanted to share some thoughts on trucks/powering the PATH cars. I was thinking about using the MTH Chicago subway set as the base for trucks/power. First, the PATH cars are very close in dimension to the Chicago cars and fit well on the floors. Secondly, the Chicago trucks are crudely similar to the PATH trucks, which are not all that close to the GSI trucks found on the R-62, R-21, etc. I thought this might be a good solution for many O scale/gauge modelers. True O scale modelers might want to consider purchasing parts from Q-Car company and other manufacturers and customizing their cars as needed. However, if just a shell is made of the PA-4 carbody, the option is left to the consumer and the cost remains low enough so that it is reasonable for any type of modeler to acquire a 4-car set.

I'd be interested in any feedback on the idea of using the Chicago sets...would people want the PATH cars to fit on those floors?

HI

The only concern , in my opinion, of using the MTH Chicago trucks and floor is the scale of the PA4 . Will the PA4 be a true 1:48? MTH Railking subways, all IRT, with one execption (R62) are approx 1:45, a bit over sized.

I have three Chicago sets and I am not sure if they are true to scale or not. Chicago Subways are Railking so they "may" be 1:45 as the NY Subways.

I would be happy if PATH shells fit the Chicago motor/floors chasis. I would be delighted to have the Staten Island shells fit the MTH BMT Standards motor/floors chasis.

I'm not a scale nut. I would actually prefer the PATH cars to be the same scale as the MTH IRT subways and the Chicago cars. MTH pretty much set the standard scale as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't want the path cars to look out of place like the R62's did.

I think if a company came out with shells to fit exising chasis the would sell loads of them. As I mentioned above, I would really loke to stay away from all the powered trucks and the plastic and brass gears etc.

I myself don't see cannibalizing an existing subway set as a practical alternative. Maybe if these sets were as common as postwar steamers in that you could always find junkers at swap meets, but they aren't--not by any stretch of the imagination.

This tactic may work for you--it's just a deal-breaker for me. It doesn't sit right with me to have to buy a functioning subway set just to scrap them for their trucks.

The (now defunct) company I mentioned in my previous post made something called a "Truck-Mounted Traction Unit". It was a rectangular slot-car style motor mounted in a small Delrin gearbox and reduction-geared to a single O-scale wheelset (uninsulated hi-rail wheelsets were also available. You could literally mount one of these in a typical freight truck by sticking a piece of wire through the sideframe to restrain the motor, and best of all, you could power four axles for the price of one of the existing NWSL/Q-Car setups for a single axle.

With the variety of small motors available today (such as those in micro-R/C vehicles and cell-phone vibrator mechanisms), it's a wonder that nobody has thought to revisit the concept.

---PCJ

As long as the shells were made to mount on an existing chassis, someone in your shoes could just buy the chassis and trucks of your choice and power it however you like. The same way the HO guys do it. The only thing being discarded from an esisting set would be the body shells. You would keep all the lighting, seating etc, even the windows if they fit. The shells could than be sold on ebay the way they are now. Lets face it, all these put togethers out there are in no way reliable in the long term. I have many brass sets, they don't compair to mass produced engines and rolling stock.

My only concern is the screw pattern, that it line up with existing traction cars. If this were incorparated into the new shells, (SIRT or PATH cars) the one shell would be good for everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by MCD4x4:
As long as the shells were made to mount on an existing chassis, someone in your shoes could just buy the chassis and trucks of your choice and power it however you like. The same way the HO guys do it.

The HO guys actually have it a little easier--they can buy powered chassis that never had bodies on them. No leftover shells to dispose of.

---PCJ

Can someone who has the ability to post on the Model Train Journal forums copy the initial posting over to that forum? They have not answered my email requesting permission to do so. Thanks! I know there are at least a few people over there that have an interest in PATH!

Hi. I worked for the sirt in clifton as a electrician around 1972 to 78. i would be interested in a o scale model of a sirt car plus a BMT ryplex. I already have the ri - 9 and the bmt standards all switched to 2 rail and subway couplers

What did you use for the proper couplers?

Anyone know if the GHB International PCC power truck can be adapted to these carbodies? They're kind of pricey, and you may have to power each car or every other car since they're designed for single streetcars, but at least they're available in a 3-rail configuration and you wouldn't have to bother with cannibalizing a working subway set.

(Edit: I emailed IMW with the above question)

---PCJ

Island Modelworks is accepting deposits for O-scale PATH PA-4 cars. Deadline is 28 February. So far, there is only one deposit (mine). Here's your chance, PATH fans.

I heard the quality of their shells and details are below expectations.
I’ll just wait for the real deal.
You have to do too many extra things at extra cost to obtain the end result.

Steve, I heard the HO SIRT shells came out mint? did they? Didin't you order them and the O scale version?

These PATH car shells are being designed to screw right on to the MTH Chicago cars. This is the way to go. I'll take two four car sets.

Hey Jerry its all "junk" to me now!

I AM A FARMER NOW! LOL

Brian you still have to get two 4 car mth Chicago sets.
Do they come with the PATH logo's and where do you get the PATH sound files.
A lot of work to be done Jerry!!
We are on the dark side but you can still hang with the Mario's!!

I know about the Chicago set, thats nice though, we'll have a professionally made PATH set. The PATH shells on an MTH made chassis... NICE! As for the sounds, use a loco sound set if you'ed prefer. If a lot of us get them, I'm sure we can get a deal on getting them painted too. The logos I did once before, I think I still have a bunch left.

I'll take two four car sets of the SIRT cars if this guy will do them too. Its nice having a set that not everyone can get. (once the window closes)So ya have to put a little work into it. Thats fun too. Look how much time people spend on the layouts. Sooner of later someone will crack the sound file thing and we can add our sounds. I have a CD of the old SIRT sounds. Picture the SIRT bodies on the MTH BMT chassis? NICE! So we have to add some paint, not a lot to ask for.

I rode in all those PATH cars since they were new, so I placed a deposit for two "0"scale PATH PA-4 car shells. I did pick up a few extra sets of silver and gray unpowered MTH Chicago Subway cars when they were selling for about $50-60 each.

I only have one original Chicago Subway power car set since I thought it resembled the gray side color PATH PA-1 cars when they were brand new in 1965. I wonder how a mixed train of these would look with the silver Chicago.

I don't have any Chicago yellow book sets, but would rather use the chassis from those than the Chicago silver or gray cars (assuming they are interchangeable).

www.njhighrailers.com

The 1925 SIRT MUE cars would be an excellent choice for me as well. They operated on an interstate-freight hauling railroad that used both steam and diesel power, as well as long distance passenger specials, troop, POW and hosptial trains. What's more, no special licensing is needed for using the name "Staten Isdand" on the letterboard.

They had some variety as well, two lettering schemes and four different paint jobs in their 45+ years of service. And this does not count cars sold to the BMT in the 1950s, where they got a maroon and gray paint job.

Lettering was initally in gold (1925 to about 1939), Dulux imitation gold paint after that. The original green paint was "B&O Coach Olive" which is a shade lighter than Pullman Green. From 1939 to about 1946, the cars did not have numbers painted on their sides. But before that and afterward, they did. The car body numbers were centered on the lower sides, in line with the truck bolster.

Blue paint started appearing on the MUE's in 1965. I knew the person who enforced a 1946 B&O directive (which SIRT had filed and forgot) that all passenger equipment was to be painted BandO Blue.

The first car done was all blue with yellow grab irons, anti-climbers end end safety gates. Very shortly after, the roof was painted B&O passenger gray. Following that, car ends were also painted gray and the yellow grab irons, etc. dropped. Because of a shortage of cars, painting them proved difficult and not all got a full treatment. So some green cars just had gray roofs and ends.

Others have mentioned how dirty these cars were. This was true in the last decade of service because of deficits and related cost-cutting measures. Before that, SIRT washed the MUEs every few days usually while standing on the storage tracks between rush hours in the St. George Yard.

Nothing fancy, just a crew of four men, a hose, soapy buckets and brushes with long handles. Windows were cleaned too, by dropping the wire guards from the outside. These were intended to keep people from sticking their heads and arms out. Rock-throwing urchins did not appear in force until the late 1950's. By the 1960's, SIRT had to screen in the entire car side glass area because of them.

These cars were repainted every 5-6 years up to 1960, following B&O practice. After that it was done only if a car was shopped for other repairs and could be spared for the time it took for an exterior paint job. Therefore some cars got only partial paint jobs, as noted above.

For these SIRT cars and their final trip to scrap yards in New Jersey, they had to be shopped to meet minimal standards for wheels, brakes and grab irons. This was because they had to cross a state line and were subject to railroad interchange regulations to reach their final destination via the CNJ.

A few cars did not make it. A train of four or five of them once held at Clifton was spotted on the West Shore branch near Travis. They were eventually scrapped on site. The last car was 353 which had been gutted, then rolled over and cut up there in 2003.

A surviving car is 388, which is at a trolley museum in Connecticut. When last photographed, it wore a coat of French blue and white house paint. However the side sheathing is rusting out above the side sills. It will be bad news if that rust also comsumes the body's interior framing.

Ed Bommer

I put in my deposit for 2 of them. I hope they fit the chicago cars. maybe they can come out with a R 40m shell to fit over the R40 slant. what do you think guys
craig

I just ordered a set of 4 as well. There was a comment on the website about the PATH decals. They are for HO scale. I assume that they will make and offer O gauge if they get enough orders.

So, what is the magic number of shells to make it worth their while?

Mike B.
Tampa, FL

Just put a deposit on 4. Now I have to decide which CTA set will give it's life so that PATH might live.

Elliot

Hurray!

Mike
Tampa, FL



From: o-path@islandmodelworks.com [mailto:o-path@islandmodelworks.com]
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: Path Models O guage

Hello Mike,
The O scale PATH shell has been produced, images will be posted over
the next few days. We also have the O scale decals in from Microscale as
well.
Thank you,
Joe
Island Modelworks LLC

only if they'd make their Long island decal sheet in O scale....

thats a neat site for you subway guys if you can figure out what MTH won't make...

quote:

Originally posted by bluelinec4:
HO? Whats that

HO is oatmeal!
Probably means H0 (aitch-zero),
which is a tiny scale of model trains,
sort of the teeny weeny of model railroading!

Anybody know whether they will fit any chicago set, or just specific models. Hoping they make MTA and TA decals in O scale too!
craig

Received PATH shells, end gates, window inserts, decals from Island Modelworks today. Very nice. Am going to ask Joe if he will consider O-scale Boston subways next.

Can you post any photos?

bazonkers-

Sorry, no photo capability at this time. Hope to be up before end of June. I see you're in Seattle. I'm over on Bainbridge.

Heard from Joe at Island Modelworks today re O-scale Boston subways. Says he is open to the idea. Seems to be leaning toward same O-scale shell on MTH chassis concept as current PATH cars. So any Boston fans out there, here's your chance to lobby for O-scale Boston cars. Name your favorite line. Also, if the door is open, you Staten Island guys might want to make your case at this time as well

bazonkers-

Here are a couple of PA-4s. Models are not completed yet, but I think they're far enough along that you can see how they'll turn out. Also posted some photos of one of their predecessors.

those PA-4 mondels are BEAUTIFULLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...thanks for sharing photos

I just received by shells in the mail this week. They do look great.

I've been emailing back with Joe on a few points:

1. On the window inserts, the longest window in the set was roughly 1/4 inch too short for the opening in the shell. He is correcting this and creating a new template.

2. On the decals, there is no "Journal Square" end board. He is making another template of those and expects to have it on there.

Questions for CTSRapid:

1. Did you add the interior lighting from the MTH 3200 car inside the PA-4 shell? This is my first attempt at doing this kind of modification and not sure there is a molunt inside the shell.

2. Did you do any modifcations to the interior seating layout as the doors and seats are in differnt locations (comparing the MTH 3200 shell to the PA-4)?

Looking forward to painting mine in the coming weekends!!!

Mike
Tampa, FL

CTSRapid: By the way, did you make that older style Hudson and Manhattan car in your photos?

Pretty cool!

Mike

Mike-

Roger those window insert discrepancies. Although I'm very grateful for the model, frankly they are just a little bit off. Also, car number decals are a little undersized to my eye; used Microscale alternatives. Made no attempts to accommodate Chicago car interiors since all my models are shelf queens and will never run. Also, CTA seats are different from PATH's. Older Hudson and Manhattan K-car is a kit-bashed St. Petersburg Chicago 6000 kit. Best of luck with your PA-4s!

Thanks for posting, they look great!

CTSRapid,

Thanks for sharing your pix.

I have an the NJ Transit PCC car and I remember seeing the earlier Public Service PCC cars on the City Subway route in Newark in the late 60s.

Re: Public Service era bus in the 3rd & 4th pix
Can you tell me where you found these?
I'd appreciate any other information - i. e. Manufacturer, model, scale - that would help me locate these.

Thanks in advance from a former rider on the PS bus #102 !

TomK

Tom-

Both buses are Corgis that I repainted. Old look is a 4509, which Corgi made in several liveries. Unfortunately, Corgi made only a single door version. Public Service did operate single-door 4509s, so you won't have to do any special modification. If you want two doors, let me know, and I'll tell you what I did. Recommend getting the "Corgi City" 4509 old look. It's a silly livery, but it has the benefit of already painted white body in the window area. Usually available and affordable on e-bay. New look is Corgi's version without air conditioning in several versions. You'll need to be a little patient with this; eventually they do show up on e-bay, usually as Oakland AC Transit (spendy) or Los Angeles MTA (somewhat more affordable). I used little plastic strips in the "push-out" rear door windows to simulate Public Service's accordion rear doors. Public Service decals are from Saint Petersburg Tram Collection. Absolutely top-notch. Good luck and let me know if you need any more info!

CTSRapid,

Many Thanks!
The "hunt" is on...

I think there might be some Corgi's at "Ridge Road Station" in nearby Holley, NY.

Tom