As of now, theyre not getting my $800.00..

quote:

Originally posted by NYSubway18:Yes, the "cardinal red" R30 should not have a logo

Are you sure? If it was like the R29 from the similar time period I would think it should:

Yes, I am sure.

There was no disrespect intended in my remark, so I hope you didn't take it that way. I realize I'm probably beating a dead horse so I'm going to stop after this: I was thinking that perhaps when the R30's first were put into service in the red paint that they might have carried the logo for a while. Is that pic from the early 60's?

Chris, I love your picture. It was taken on the northbound platform of the Ave. M Station on the Brighton Line between the late 60s and the early 70s. Starting in 1972 the new R44 Cars started to replace the R1-9 cars. The picture posted above years was taken at the throat of the 207th Yard.

Ed (on the New Haven Line)

Not at all Joe. Hopefully everybody will excuse any of my short sounding responses right now - I am going through a really tough time and don't exactly have my head on straight.

As far as the R30s go, I have never seen a picture of one with a logo - even dated back to 1961. That's 14 years before I was born so I could be wrong, but I would think I would have seen at least one picture with a logo had they in fact ever worn one. Also, I beleive they weere delivered in kale green and later painted cardinal red, but I guess they may have been delivered both ways.

quote:

I just don't understand the reasoning/mental state of the execs at Lionel - are these guys nuts or what? Essentially, the same train set but $100 more - in a recession, no less. It seems stupidity reigns supreme at Lionel

I do not think the price is out of line. Lionel does not make these things for free and with the R&D R27 production, I believe that this represents a fair price because I felt that the R27 was underpriced and I am happy I have the R27. It is a nice model and they built it with the experience of the Acela and they did not make the Acela mistakes (from one who purchased both the Acela and the R27). They redesigned the doors and the coupling and in my case has significantly improved the reliability. I have not decided to purchase the new one; however, I will not be surprised if I did (especially if I can get them both to run on the same loop with simultaneous stops for both sets Jon is that a possibility?).

I like this paint scheme

Good GOD, I cant tell which is worse, the train or the station!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bluelinec4:
I like this paint scheme


now your talking.i dig that too

quote:

Originally posted by Pelham Express:
Good GOD, I cant tell which is worse, the train or the station!!

Haha!!! Thats hilarious!

I just read this whole thread, wow, just felt I had to chime in and say something--- SOMETHING... Logo's no Logo's, like CC, Im and an addict, love em all and are glad that they are still making Subway's..

My opinion MTH Subways Are so Much better for a couple of reason s


1. They are cheaper then lionel
2. they have better quality
3. Protosound 2.0 stations sounds are awesome

THe kind of down side is that its not the full route and the doors dont open but mth subways go for 400 (about) if i had to spend 800 just for opening doors and a full route i rather buy to mth subway then 1 lionel

I don't recall seeing any logos on subways in the 1950's to mid 1960's. That's when I moved to Philadelphia. I did return to NY on occasion after that.

The New York City Transit Authority operated the buses and subways then. Buses carried the "Great Seal of the City of New York" with that title in Latin around its circumference. It was stenciled in white on both sides of the buses over the transit green paint.

Subway tokens used then had a "Y" punched in their center. No logos on the new IRT subway cars from the St. Louis Car Co. in the later 1950's, just that startling red paint. Quite a contrast to the dark, grimy, never-washed family of cars dating back to the 'teens, including the last of the "merry widows" still running with their sliding doors to close off the end vestibule for an operating cab.

The only subway cars carrying a logo from the mid to late 1950's were the SIRT cars that BMT bought. They re-painted them in maroon and gray. There was also a round white logo applied to the left of the center doors. It was not easy to make out in photos. It may also have been the NY City seal.

When the MTA began its work, the big "M" logo first appeared on brand-new equipment, notably cars for the Long Island Railroad. Other new subway and Metro-North equipment also got logos as they were delivered.

Ed Bommer

I do remember the logos on the bright red R29's when they were brand new (see pic at top of this page). They were not "M" or "ta" logos. They said New York City Transit Authority around the edge and showed a subway car in 3/4 view coming out of the center.

Here is another pic from 1963. Granted, these two have special trucks under them but the logo is the same that I saw on other R29's at that time:



And finally, this one is a real surprise to me: a 2007 image of an R38 with a non-colored version of this same 1960's - vintage logo!

Mr. bommer, forgive the dumb question, but "merry widows"? as for the MTH sets, yeah, they dont announce an entire line, but at least the 6 trains announce my home stop, and besides, with DCS you can do your own announcements

quote:

Originally posted by Pelham Express:
Mr. bommer, forgive the dumb question, but "merry widows"? as for the MTH sets, yeah, they dont announce an entire line, but at least the 6 trains announce my home stop, and besides, with DCS you can do your own announcements

In the mid-1950's they were the oldest all-steel IRT subway cars in operation. They were Gibbs designed Hi-V's from 1904/05, built by ACF.

In the 3350-3649 number series, they had rounded-off clerestory roof ends. The car end with both doors could be closed off with parlor-type sliding doors. This created a full-width motorman's cab up front.

These cars were disappointing to kids (and grown-ups) who liked being up front to look out the end door window. Instead, one might watch through a window of those sliding doors, a couple of feet back. Not so great.

They were last used on the 242nd Street Broadway Local and the Bowling Green Shuttle to South Ferry. Their big "last stand" was on the Lexington Avenue Express just before the R-17 St. Louis cars took over in the mid-1950's.

The "Merry Widow" nickname derived from those sliding vestibule doors. Such were common in Victorian era homes to close off the parlor or dining room. I guess it gives away my age. I thought die-hard subway fans out there would know them! Similar IRT cars built in 1907/08 with a monitor or deck-type roof (squared off clerestory ends) were known as "Battleships."

These cars dated from before the use of subway route numbers. If one was observant, they could tell what route a train was for by the color combination of its classification lights (incorrectly called 'marker lights' sometimes) on the front corners of the car roof. Most people read metal slat signs in one of the windows near the center of each car.

But the class colors were important for tower operators as well as in the early days of the subway for folks who did not read English very well. Ditto for the colored plaques depicting something related to each station. There were no announcments of any sort on the subways back then, as the cars did not have public address systems until much later.

Super-annuated Ed Bommer

I rode these Hi-V cars as a boy when I was growing up on the Upper West Side. I must have been about 5 years old when I rode them. The straw ticking would be undone on some of the seats and pricked my thighs when I sat on them in shorts. I enjoyed standing in the vestibule and pretending to "steer" the train by playing with the big brake wheel (which was locked). The vestibule sometimes smelled bad because it was dark in there and some people would take advantage to relieve themselves in the corner.