Charlie posted this in another thread...

quote:

make sure you check out the NEW Redbird subway set from Lionel in Book 2! :-)

Seriously? Anyone else have any word on this? Wow, that's shocking. Assuming this is true, hopefully they work out some kinks, and don't go nuts on the price - then I just may have to buy one. Finally, going to use the MTA logo? I just hope they do it right and use the classic M logo and not the awful bullet logo since they never wore that logo in service. They also will actually making an R30 I guess because I don't think the 27s ever made it to the Redbird scheme. I believe the only difference between an R27 and an R30 would be the car numbers.




Guess there's still hope for the R27/30 in silver with blue stripe MTA colors down the road.

Sweet Man! I always wanted the Redbird R30. Hope its the old Rush Hour C Train from Bedford Park Blvd, Bronx to Rockaway Pk-Beach 116 St, Queens.

I'm hoping for the classic "A" to Washington Heights 207th St., but if they get everything else right I can change that if necessary.

Chris, this has got to be the sleeper of the year! I'm not picky. I'll take either the A or C! ...and this comes after we all thought Lionel was throwing in the towel on subways. Hopefully Lionel will leave off some of the costly electronics this time around and make an affordable, reliable set.

Elliot

quote:

Originally posted by railfare:
... Hopefully Lionel will leave off some of the costly electronics this time around and make an affordable, reliable set.

Elliot

I agree and if they have opening doors hopefully they are the manual opening type.

Why don't you guys like the opening doors I think they are awesome

quote:

Originally posted by bluelinec4:
Why don't you guys like the opening doors I think they are awesome

I may be one of the few, but I had the doors jam up on at least two cars. When everything works it is a cool feature.

well, I for one can take them or leave them. When i saw the first lionel set, I liked the look, but the drawbars completely ruined the experience. The price tag put the nail in that coffin for me. Since then, I've read a lot of the critiques on them on here, and I think the main feeling is probablly that hopefully Lionel figures out that all the wizz bang flashy stuff is pointless if the thing becomes a 600 dollar headache. None of my MTH sets have opening doors, but I enjoy them. TAKE THE HINT, Mr Calabrese!!!

There will not be any logos on these.

quote:

Originally posted by SIRT:
There will not be any logos on these.

That doesn't make any sense. Where did you get that from? If they are doing a true Redbird scheme then it should have the M logo - and they have the license.

quote:

Originally posted by bluelinec4:
Why don't you guys like the opening doors I think they are awesome

HEAR,HEAR!.plus it makes it easy to place vict,uh i mean passengers on the train.

I'll take a set no matter what type of doors they have. I'm very happy with my R27's. I only ran them a few times but the doors worked flawlessly.

The borrom line here is, I just cant get enough Subways!

great..lets see this is 2009...Aug...delivery hmmm I'd say 2/11 doesn't sound out of line...I'm in.

rat

I had $2 at the MGM sports book that there would never be another Lionel subway.

quote:

Originally posted by ratpak:
I had $2 at the MGM sports book that there would never be another Lionel subway.

I would have lost my house! But, let's just wait and see. I haven't seen any proof just yet. Not that I don't believe Charlie, I just want to see it for myself.

quote:

I had $2 at the MGM sports book that there would never be another Lionel subway.

Rat, thanks for keep my taxes so low!
Charlie....

hey Charlie, since you pretty much helped kick off this speculation, where did u see this new set mentioned, and do you have any way of posting pics or telling us how we can find this information?

We will soon see pictures and details, my sources are good;

You know you'd think with this lull going on this would be a perfect time to shake things up and announce these things

rat

quote:

Originally posted by bluelinec4:
Why don't you guys like the opening doors I think they are awesome

I have to agree.

The opening doors were the only reason I took up O after having been in N for so many years.

quote:

believe the only difference between an R27 and an R30 would be the car numbers.

Little tooling expense makes sense in this economy, it would be guess as well.
I did hear a rumor awhile back a Chicago EL train may be in the works..
But my question is, has anyone operated the Lionel subway with all 6 cars?
If so, your thoughts please...
Thanks
Joe

I have run all 6 cars on my carpet layout (O-72, flat as a board) with no problems. Other than doors not opening.

The R-30 set should be online this week as the catalog is now shipping. MSRP 799.99

Thank you Charlie.

I see they raised the price from 699.99 to 799.99. That unfortunatley may place this set in jeopardy depending on pre-orders.

any pics of said train?

The R27s #8200-8249 and the R30s #8250-8659 are all the same in appearence and components. They were built during 1960-1961. If Lionel is doing the R30 model there is nothing to change from their R27 model except the color(s) that were applied during the late 60s and into the 70s. They were either red with a black roof or the MTA silver with a blue stripe running below the window area, around the cab windows and across the roof above the cab windows. They were all retired by the early 90s. Around 100 of these cars were rebuilt in the mid 80s and they were going to have air conditioning units installed until it was determined that this would make them too heavy and would exceed the safe weight limits on the elevated portions of the routes where they ran.

I just don't understand the reasoning/mental state of the execs at Lionel - are these guys nuts or what? Essentially, the same train set but $100 more - in a recession, no less. It seems stupidity reigns supreme at Lionel. I hope that MTH continues to issue subway sets - they'll definitely get my money. I could care less that they don't have any MTA logos and such. To hell with Lionel.

Actually that price increase doesn't sound bad after what I was told by the Lionel exec. Apparently the cost to get things produced in China has gone up significantly, and at the time he didn't think they would ever produce another subway because the production cost was so prohibitive. At the time he said it would be double what they paid the first time around. Guess they were able to get that down. It's still a lot of $$$, and will take some serious thought in these times. I wish they were doing it in silver and blue MTA colors, then it would be a no-brainer, but as long as the do the redbird scheme right, use the proper M logo for the time they ran in service, and correct car numbers for the R30, I have a feeling it will join my fleet.

So basically, Lionel is mismanaged as they can't control their Chinese costs since they consistently and outrageously raise their prices while MTH consistently provides product and maintain their price points. Enough said.

quote:

Originally posted by NYC Steeler:
So basically, Lionel is mismanaged as they can't control their Chinese costs since they consistently and outrageously raise their prices while MTH consistently provides product and maintain their price points. Enough said.

Lionel has to deal with Kader while MTH produces their products internally. Same with Bachmann who is part of Kader so it is easier for Bachmann to hold the price line. Eventually however, the effects of US deindustrialization will force MTH and Bachmann to raise prices as the dollar weakens and the US standard of living permanently lowers thanks to the ostrich like devotion to free trade shown by our "leaders".

$799? I'll pass. The opening door function is cute but not that much of a turn on for me. I'll stick with PS-2 equipped subways running on DCS from MTH at prices ranging from mid $200s to mid $400s.

I have to say I agree with Strap and techie. Too much of our industiral capabilities are gone, and unless something is done, we'll end up like england.and while I like my trains, once you get into the $500 plus range, it starts to become an expensive luxury. I'd rather PS2 and the station announcements over opening doors, espeically when price and simplicity of operation become an issue. once you factor in costs of track (especially switches) structures, and such, this starts to become a rich mans hobby. $799 dollars? I can get 2 MTH sets for that price

these are all expensive,but 8 is over the top,some cats only make 3 a week,which is really the average .so most wouldent buy the mth sets to begin with.and the lionel set is totally out of the question,and with this ressesion it gets more grim.i will probably get the lionel set also,but its still costly,but whats a addict to do.

HI IF THE SET BY LIONEL LOOKS LIKE MTH 32'S AND ARE SILVER WITH THE BLUE LINE. I AM IN FOR THE $799.00 IF NOT I WOULD PURCHASE THE R36 WORLD FAIR INSTED.

CCRider, let me put this in NY terms. When I lived in the City, I walked passed a Korean grocery every day that charged $2.00 for a can of soda while every bodega in Queens charged 60 cents. Now I could easily pay the $2.00 for that soda, however I refused to throw them that extra change. It didn't matter how thirsty I was. It was a matter of principle. Lionel is like that Korean grocery for me. At $799, I'd rather give my money to the MTH bodega. I feel less abused at the current rate of change. Hey, but it’s a free country. If you want to pay the Koreans an exorbitant amount, go ahead. I'll continue to shop at the reasonably priced bodega in Queens.

or, you can do like most addicts, and just rob em, lol. Just make sure they dont pacl a 12 gauge behind the counter

ha,ha,ha, ..........maybe ur right,ill go get tha vest and the gat.LOL

quote:

I was told by the Lionel exec. Apparently the cost to get things produced in China has gone up significantly, and at the time he didn't think they would ever produce another subway because the production cost was so prohibitive. At the time he said it would be double what they paid the first time around. Guess they were able to get that down

I seriously question that logic..Me think its all about production numbers and Lionel profit.
Soft economy translates to less sales, translates to higher cost per unit...
Joe

Ok, I thought the whole reason these companies gutted their AMERICAN workforces and OUTSOURCED good paying AMERICAN jobs to china was for the dirt cheap labor, making products themselves cheaper. Of course, once you send the jobs overseas, forcing Americans who once held them to work at Wal Mart, those workers might not be able to afford your (overpriced) trains. Henry Ford would shake his head.

$800.00? I can buy a fleet of R-12s for that amount.

curious to see if MTH responds with redbirds and no logo...just for fun.


rat

Little tooling expense makes sense in this economy, it would be guess as well.
I did hear a rumor awhile back a Chicago EL train may be in the works..
But my question is, has anyone operated the Lionel subway with all 6 cars?
If so, your thoughts please...
Thanks
Joe[/QUOTE]

A Lionel CTA would be great!!! I recall reading a post that the CTA had dropped the MTH licensin (or is it vice versa?) so not sure if they would team up with Lionel. Would love to hear CTA announcements with Legacy and RailSounds

...and once again Lionel decides to model a set with no logos, leaving me dissapointed yet again ....I guess anyone who wants to accurately model the BMT Brighton Line has it made...the only model missing is a scale R-42

quote:

Originally posted by NYSubway18:

quote:

Originally posted by SIRT:
There will not be any logos on these.

That doesn't make any sense. Where did you get that from? If they are doing a true Redbird scheme then it should have the M logo - and they have the license.

Might not make sense but they chose to not make it with the logos.

quote:

Originally posted by NYSubway18:
If they are doing a true Redbird scheme then it should have the M logo

These trains don't need a MTA logo. If you look at older pics of these redbirds from back in the 1960's even the ones above my entry they do not have MTA logos. The only time they had logos was during the overhaul in the 1970's and the modern era from 1980-present. So Lionel is actually right in not putting the logos on.

If you do't believe me look on www.nycsubway.org and look up R-27/30 for yourself.

I think I'll pass on these.

Elliot

quote:

Originally posted by bazonkers:

quote:

Originally posted by NYSubway18:

quote:

Originally posted by SIRT:
There will not be any logos on these.

That doesn't make any sense. Where did you get that from? If they are doing a true Redbird scheme then it should have the M logo - and they have the license.

Might not make sense but they chose to not make it with the logos.

Chris, as I said no logos.
Lionel most likely took a loss on the first subway set due to tooling and all the unexpected warranty repairs.
They couldn’t afford to pay the MTA royalties on the copyrighted logo.
Besides, original, as delivered red R-30’s never had a logo.

I have good sources.
As Rush Limbaugh says, “Don’t ever doubt me”

Unbelievable! Lionel just cannot get out of their own way.

That is NOT a "Redbird", and if they advertise it as such then it is blatant false advertising. Those old cardinal red trains were never referred to as "Redbirds". Redbirds came in the early '80s - which the R30s were painted as at the end of their lives. A Redbird is painted deep maroon, with black roof ends and silver roof tops as in my pics in an early post above. As I said without seeing a pic of what they were producing - if they were doing a true "Redbird" it should have the "M" logo. Clearly they are not. Lionel is who pushed this whole license thing so the one company doing right by us was no longer allowed to use it, and now twice Lionel is going to produce a set with no logo. Yes, the "cardinal red" R30 should not have a logo as the kale green version shouldn't and didn't either. That doesn't change how stupid and annoying this whole thing is.

I'm still aggravated that I finally broke down and bought a Lionel set, and that stupid short Metro North M7 had a wheel on the powered car fall off as I took it out of the box for the first time. The weak power supply that came with the set wasn't even strong enough to run my 4 car R11 set while I wait for a fix. Finally got an e-mail today that a part order had been processed for a new truck to be shipped to me, although they couldn't even spell my name right on it. Let's see if the truck actually shows up. They'll get my money for that ridiculously priced Grand Central Terminal because I'm an idiot, but chances are that will be the last $$$ they ever see from me. Too bad the MTA isn't smart enough to see that that Lionel is just toying with them. I wish the MTA would grant a "free-use" license allowing all companies to use their logos - at least the vintage "ta" and "M" logos, like Mike Wolf worked out with Union Pacific.

...and Steve - since you have such great sources you could have let us know it wasn't going to be a real Redbird. Would have saved energy on any wasted hope Lionel actually had a clue.

all this fighting to take the logo away from MTH,just not to produce a subway without the logos they so dearly fought to have.........WHAT A BUNCH A%&#@!&$!
whose running LIONEL? groucho marx brother?,the cat with the curley hair and horn,i forget his name.

Oprah...er sorry I meant HARPO.

rat