Hi,

I am formulating ideas on how to construct a subway station under the layout and then have the cars climb out of the subway and onto the EL and eventually return to the subway station. Any ideas? What would it take to make the cars come up out of the ground and onto the EL? Any specific distance on the run needed to accomplish this task without tearing up traction tires. I have a set of 6 R-62's and a set of 6 Redbirds. I just think they are awesome. I was also thinking in the lines of doing a diorama of the station with the climbout and attaching it somehow to the bottom of the layout. I just love subway cars. Thanks for all your input.

Roy

ICMAN

This message has been edited. Last edited by: IC Man,

Roy - I keep it at one level. Never have to replace a traction tire.
Subway layout ideas at my photo link.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/sirt

Steve P.
SIRT

quote:

Originally posted by IC Man:
Hi,

I am formulating ideas on how to construct a subway station under the layout and then have the cars climb out of the subway and onto the EL and eventually return to the subway station. Any ideas?
Roy

ICMAN

Amazing, I have been contemplating the exact same thing. I'm all ears for the expert advice. Great forum!

I was hoping someone with a better grasp of the math would have anwered you, but I would suggest you making separate below layout subway, and above layout els. Trying to connect them is going to be difficult unless you are in a warehouse. Most MTH subways can onlyhandle a 4% grade max, and more likely a 2%. The R-62 I and many others have struggles on a flat surface, so grades are out for it. Maybe someone can help with the math, (I know these numbers are wrong) but even at 4% you need like 15 ft to get from underground to ground level, and then you would need to go that distance again to get up on an el. That's a lot of of real estate needed.

Roy,

While I don't disagree with the responses you have gotten: it will be hard to go from subway to el in a reasonable distance, I wanted to suggest something I mentioned here before. Look at the WestSide IRT. If you make your station to be like the 116th St subway station and your el like the 125th St station you can get the kind of effect you want. That is: put your entire subway below the layout level but make an urban valley where the subway can emerge, rise slightly on an el structure and then re-enter the subway. Just look at the pictures to get some ideas. Although 125th St is surrounded with projects now, you can see in the older pictures that there used to be smaller buildings there.

Good luck!

That's a great idea Lou. I have thought about incorporating something similar to this into my layout. I love the idea of having the same line be both a subway and an el, without the hassle of a grade. I saw it done pretty well at the Pearl River show a couple years ago. Maybe Skip or Tom G. can post some pics. Their el goes into a mountain which has a subway station at the end. Very cool.

Lou's suggestion is the best way to go. I am planning something similar for my subway to el of the future (got too much to do in the subway .. pics soon).

Anyway you must consider 3.5-4% grade and a 6 inch rise using the 125th St model. This requires at least 12.5 to 14 feet. Double that if you want to use a level ground subway to el where the rise is about 12 inches.

Lou,

Your idea is superb. What I am going to do is place the subway below the outer edge of the layout and have it come up to 125th Street, then traverse around and then have a station like 116th Street in the subway tunnel. Very low grade and up the station and back into the tunnel once again. I was thinking in the lines of a 1.5% grade. The R-62's and the other cars can handle that. I know this from running them on the Boston Metro Hi-Railers club near Boston. Even having the exterior station on supports of more or less 2.0" high would be effective. What does everyone think?

Thanks,

Roy

My layout which is currently under construction has the subway emerging to a lower level waterfront area where the subway becomes an elevated line through this lower level area. I think this is the way to go, thus the track stays level. I am hoping to create a slight illusion that the elevated line is climbing but in reality the ground is actually on a slight incline whereas the track is actually level but the el line appears to increase in height'


Not sure what happened to my previous post about this, it seems to have been lost in cyberspace.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Thoroughbred,

That sounds great Thoroughbred. Do you have any photos of your construction?

quote:

Originally posted by NYSubway18:
That sounds great Thoroughbred. Do you have any photos of your construction?

Chris, thanks
I will get some photos soon and try to get them posted within the coming weeks here.

Scott

You need to get in touch with 'L.I.Train' from the Babylon club on Long Island. He designed a beautiful elevated and subway train when he designed their layout. Frank Razz usually post's pictures of it. He should, if he is not already, build and design layouts for a living.
tumbleweed

Looking forward to them, Scott.

quote:

Originally posted by IC Man:
Hi,

I am formulating ideas on how to construct a subway station under the layout and then have the cars climb out of the subway and onto the EL and eventually return to the subway station. Any ideas? What would it take to make the cars come up out of the ground and onto the EL? Any specific distance on the run needed to accomplish this task without tearing up traction tires. Roy

ICMAN

Roy;

Look at the pictures posted by one of our club members, see link below. The picture show a below grade station, the portal from underground to outdoors and the climb to an EL. A lot of club members worked on this section of the subway and it is now a main attraction when we have guests.
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9041028214/m/7121024064

Chris, thanks
I will get some photos soon and try to get them posted within the coming weeks here.

Scott[/QUOTE]



Scott,
Although I am no where near ready, I look forward to seeing your pics and and ides.

Do you guys think the standard types of tunnel portals available from K=Line or MTH are ok for the elevated to subway design we are all discussing here, or would a different type of portal look more correct? Looks like the 125th St one is much like he K-Line portals?

quote:

Originally posted by Thoroughbred:
Do you guys think the standard types of tunnel portals available from K=Line or MTH are ok for the elevated to subway design we are all discussing here, or would a different type of portal look more correct? Looks like the 125th St one is much like he K-Line portals?

Do both. You can make them using foam also.

Hello IC Man; I've done this(subway stations not installed yet ) with my layout (pelham 123) it's a 10 level, twin subway tunnel, open cut, elevated and surface, automatic routing, contiuous loop set up codensed into a 15'x 5.5' space. You can view it on you-tube, any of 7 videos.

As far as traction tire ware out concern goes, from running so much I've worn a grove in the metal pick up wheel, in all that running the traction tires are fine.

In addition to the pelham 123 videos you will see a two car train running the route, I'm powering the layout with a MTH Z-750 which isn't strong enough for this amount of trackage when the transformer was new I was able to run a 4 car train with no problem the transformer was getting weak, a Z-4000 would do the job.



As long as the train was moving( 3 or 4 car train)It could climb the incline but it couldn't start out on it the powered car wasn't heavy enough the wheels would spin, but the 2 car train could with no problem climb out of either of the subway portals from a stand still. I would set it in station stop mode and it would run out and back ,stopping on the incline and going again whith on problem.

While on the subject (pelhem 123 climb out)the train had to drop from the el down three levels in a space of 21 feet including nagotiating a curve, the problem occurred only at that subway portal,at the other subway portal which descended only one level there was never a problem,( when the transformer was new) I could stop a four car train on its incline and go again (it occupied a space of 7 feet to descend one level and nagotiate a curve) with ON PROBLEM.
So it would seem that if I could add another seven feet there would be absolutely no problem mon..