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Just like MTH and Lionel, it varies in detail. The minimum threshold is definitely higher than Railking and such. The MMI (basically diecast built to the same standards as high quality brass) stuff is as good as it gets. Models are all three of the above...plus wood. The locomotive that really ignited the modern era of On30 was the Bachmann Spectrum 2-6-0. It is styrene and moderately detailed. Their next offerings were a porter and a shay which were a mix of diecast and styrene. I believe that most (or all) locomotives since then were high quality diecast with some styrene parts (MMIs are diecast with brass parts). AMS, the builder of many of those live steam large scale locomotives you see, is coming out with a brass and steel 2-8-0.
HO track can work with On30. The only reason On30 exists is because of this. Still, many people find that by the time they get around to the layout stage, they want On30 track instead. To understand this, a std gauge tie might be 7"x9" and around 8'-8'6" long. In HO, that is 0.080"x0.103"x1.172"...that corresponds to 4"x5" and 4'5" long in On30. The narrow gauge ties ought to be around 4"x7", have less ties per foot of track, and be at least 6' long (some used as long as 7') So, for just running trains, HO track works. If you care about the appearance of your track (you are trying to model the track and not just the buildings/locomotives), then you have to get On30 track. Some use HO couplers (which are actually around 3/4 the size of 1:48 scale couplers...which is correct for some narrow gauges) while others use O/On3 couplers. The modern era of On30 started around 1998; it drew upon...and is related to...two scales that go back much longer: HO and On3. On3 is true 3' gauge O scale...where On30 is actually 31" gauge track: they do not use the same track. Still, many are looking to model (or get their inspiration from) 3' gauge prototypes. In short, no you can't really use O-scale standard gauge cars on On30 track. Narrow gauge cars are/were smaller than std gauge...in general. There are plenty of exceptions. The real 3' gauge East Broad Top would periodically operate SG cars over their railroad from the mid-1930s through the end (the 3'6" gauge Newfoundland railroad did this as well). Some of the 3' gauge rotary snow plows were actually just smaller SG rotaries. The South Park had a series of gigantic 3' gauge cars which ended up being SG cars. Around 1880, many NG and SG cars were close in size. We have to go with 3' gauge to get US prototypes as 30" gauge trains were nearly non-existent in the US...just like 5' gauge 2-6-6-6s, electric powered steam locomotives, and 0-5-0 switchers. [/QUOTE]
Some are DCC equipped; most are DCC ready. IIRC, the last several B-man releases have all been DCC equipped, some with sound. MMI's are not (the first might have been. Broadway Limiteds have been both w/wo sound and/or DCC. I can't recall on AMS. They typically have appropriate top speeds...and good low speed performance.
They are really nice locomotives...far more of a bargain than most other scales. Bachmann is the primary source for many. They offer a collection mostly Baldwin catalog locomotives...some of which are obscure...none of which are accurate for the Rio Grande. The secondary sources are probably AMS, MMI, and SJCC. AMS is a division of Accucraft...they're newer to the On30/On3 scene: http://accucraft.com/ SJCC was an On3 manufacturer that started offering their cars with On30 trucks. They have been (now augmented by AMS) for Rio Grande cars. http://www.sanjuancarco.com/ MMI is a division of Precision Scale. PSC is one of the essential suppliers of goodies for steam era modelers...as well as a brass importer for collectors. MMI is, essentially, applying the limited run diecast techniques to common brass models. Their diecast locomotive line is very Rio Grande-centric: http://psc1.virtualfocus.com/ Bachmann, by contrast, is On30 only. Their cars are noticeably smaller than the above manufacturers. Their locomotives vary from being as large as the smaller MMI locomotives, to dinky porters and gas mechanicals. Still, many of us On3 modelers have purchased and regauged B-man models due to the value. I recently grabbed another 2-6-0 for around $50...which is about what the wheels alone would cost in On3...I'll be turning it into something radically different. http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/index.php Pretty much, the myriad of old On3 manufacturers offer On30 compatible items. Grandt Line's rolling stock is all compatible with different trucks (although they might require some modifications so that the narrower wheeled trucks can pivot). They previously offered their porter in On30...possibly the best detailed locomotive available in the entire 1:48 world. http://grandtline.com/ Broadway Limited Imports/Precision Craft Models (BLI/PCM) have offered an On30 model of a D&RGW C-16 2-8-0. It had a few problems, noticeably the driver spacing and bell bracket, but was generally an excellent locomotive. Through PCM, they offered a Rio Grande Southern Galloping Goose as #3,4,& 5 appeared from 1943 to the end of the RGS. http://www.broadway-limited.co...16inon30scale-2.aspx Basically, there are two types of manufacturers: older On3 manufacturers that focus on prototypical models...frequently D&RGW...and new manufacturers for On30 that focus on rare or non-existent models...frequently because they are really small and work with the 18" curves that On30ers love to push the envelope with. Here are some other sources: http://www.miniaturesbyeric.com/itmidx7.htm http://www.riograndemodels.com/O.htm http://www.foothillmodelworks.com/ http://www.backwoodsminiatures.com/ http://www.locopainter.com/ http://www.troutcreekeng.com/tcon.html The last point to make is that their are six commercially supported and separate 1:48 options in the US. On2, On30, On3, Proto:48, 3-rail, and 2-rail. You are familiar with the last three. On2 and On3 have both existed for a long time. Historically, most railroads were standard gauge. A few were 4'10", 5', 6', 4'1" and various other combinations. By the 1930s, 99% or so of railroad miles were standard gauge...with most of the remainder being 3' gauge. In Maine, there was a 2' gauge system. The most famous 2' gauge was the Sandy River & Rangeley Lakes. On2 is mostly focused on these Maine lines, with some support for the Gilpin Gold Tram of Colorado. The best known (modern) 3' gauge railroads were the Rio Grande, Colorado & Southern, Rio Grande Southern, East Broad Top (Pennsylvania), Southern Pacific NG (California), West Side Lumber Co, and the Tweetsie (TN-NC). Historically, these were modeled in On3. On30 draws from both of these and lesser known roads. The 4-6-0 is basically a Tweetsie locomotive...the Forney is basically a SR&RL locomotive...the IF 4-4-0 is basically an obscure PA 2' gauge locomotive. The B-man boxcar is an Ohio River and Western car (a 3' gauge road in eastern Ohio). Learning about the real NG roads will help you to get a feel for the models. Here's a photo collection online from a main whom worked extensively with the B-man 4-6-0: http://www.johnsonsdepot.com/crumley/tour8a.htm And the last surviving Tweetsie 4-6-0: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eQzFphIMwk Hope that isn't too much information... Michael 19th century On3...and a touch of C&S. Mostly DSP&P pre-1885 renumbering. http://thesouthparkline.blogspot.com/ |
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Michael
 Just what I was looking for. I did a little searching and noticed where someone said "With ON30 is O scale trains running on HO track and you can model more in less space". I figured that may have been a little inaccurate and that's why I asked about using regular O scale rolling stock. After all, a 12" long boxcar is still a 12" long boxcar no matter what track you put it on and if a close-coupled pair of 12" boxcars almost touch on a 27" radius in O scale then they'll almost touch on a 27" radius in ON30 scale as well. I really like the Bachmann 2-6-0 and 4-6-0 engines. For the price they appear hard to beat and the sets look like a good deal for the money as well. What I may do is get a separate engine, buy some rolling stock, and lay my own track and switches to make a small logging RR. Thanks again! |
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Carstens publications came out last year with their On30 Annual. Its full of great articles, and information.
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Bob, you are a good man! You skepticism is well justified. ON30 track takes up less space, but the buildings are still the same size. Additionally, it is the size of the equipment, not he gauge of the track, that allows for tighter curves. 95% of all 3' gauge freight cars were 23'-32' long. In my experience, On30 locomotives have tighter min. curve radii than On3 only because the narrower wheels have 2.5" scale of extra lateral play before they hit the cylinders when going around curves. Similarly, On30 cars with structural members between the wheels (steel underframe cars, skeleton log cars) can't negotiate as tight of curves as their On3 brethren. The advantages to narrow gauge modeling are really more in the way such railroads ran. Where a typical SG passenger train was 10 cars, NG was more like 2-3 cars. Where a typical SG freight train had 60-100+ cars, NG trains were 3-30 cars. Similarly, there is more potential of triple heading on NG trains. Of course, the track does take up less space...but the train lengths also require less track. I second Tim's suggestion on the On30 Annual. Michael 19th century On3...and a touch of C&S. Mostly DSP&P pre-1885 renumbering. http://thesouthparkline.blogspot.com/ |
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Thanks again guys! I've been thinking about getting into 2-rail but the large radii required puts most everything out of my reach, let alone price! ON30 sounds like just the thing. I really like the looks of the 2-6-0 and 4-6-0 engines. I may get just the engine and build the rolling stock. I need to take a look at a LHS to see what they have.
Oh, are the trucks HO scale (can you use HO truck from a HO boxcar) or are they something specific to ON30? |
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In short: HO trucks aren't of any scale value.
The long version: Narrow gauge wheels were typically 24" or 26"...the smallest were 20" (1871 D&RG freight cars) and the largest were 30" (1880s Pullmans). 36" gauge HO wheels scale out to 20" O scale wheels. Similarly, everything on the trucks is out of scale...the hardware, journal boxes, irons (for fabricated trucks) and typically the wheelbase. I'm trying to remember the shortest wheelbase trucks...3'2" perhaps...which is around 5'9" in HO. The shortest cast trucks were, IIRC, 4'6"...which is around 8' in HO. Additionally, the truck frames aren't tall enough. Many of the manufacturers listed above also offer On30 trucks (SJCC, B-man, Grandt Line, Rio Grande Models, Wiseman) and NWSL offers wheelsets. Any On3 truck can be used in On30 by regauging/replacing the wheels so long as the axles are long enough. Additionally, Coronado in Phoenix offers some additional trucks...particularly useful for 19th century modeling...and MacLeod Western offers fine truck frames (wheelsets from NWSL). I prefer to build my own models as well...I find it rewarding and nowhere near as difficult as people seem to think. You shouldn't have to pay more than around $200 for any non-MMI On30 locomotive without sound. MMI stuff is in the $400 category. Michael 19th century On3...and a touch of C&S. Mostly DSP&P pre-1885 renumbering. http://thesouthparkline.blogspot.com/ |
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The Bachmann freight cars are based on the early narrow gauge which were of 10 ton capacity. These cars look pretty good with early 4-4-0 and 2-6-0.The need for bigger equipment to handle the increased freight resulted in the 2-8-0s being developed and the larger capacity freight cars that could haul 20 ton loads. These cars are well represented by SJC and AMS. AMS will supply on30 or on3 trucks.
If you have a space limitation, you may wish to go with the early era using the 4-4-0, 2-6-0 or C16 built by Broadway limited. You could use 19 inch curves and still have nice looking trains. Untill we get our 4-6-0s and can report on their capabilites and needs, I would be hesitant to get one. Al |
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Good info,thanks!
I Googled the Bachmann ON30 2-6-0 and found one at a real good price ($85), must be non-DCC at that price, but that's fine with me  |
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Bob,
I just found a BLI RGS number 40 C16 on the bay. It is a few days out, but if you can get one for 120 to 150 dollars you would have a good buy. As far as I know, the 2-6-0s are dc only. I would guess some of our group has converted them to DCC. Al |
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Around $60 is common for them on ebay. I picked up my B-man 2-8-0 for $70... Michael 19th century On3...and a touch of C&S. Mostly DSP&P pre-1885 renumbering. http://thesouthparkline.blogspot.com/ |
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The On30 Annuals (I believe three or four have been published to date) are fine publications, but none of them are really "primers" in the conventional sense. I'm not aware of any real primer devoted exclusively to On30, but there may be one out there that I'm unaware of. And if there isn't a primer in the sense of a basic book for those just starting out, there really should be one.
Allan Miller, Editor-In-Chief O Gauge Railroading magazine |
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Gee, Allan,
Sounds like a perfect opportunity for OGR to produce one. I agree that a good On30 primer would be worth it and, considering how fast the scale is growing, would probably sell pretty well. Anyway, I bet you could, at the least, get a a handfull of authors each to write about a separate topic and put something together. Jim The Jemez & Rio Grande. It ain't much, but it's all mine! |
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Basic ON30 Primer, good idea. We have a lot of great information right here on this forum that could be used if there is no copy right infringment of the posts.
Jim, good to know you are still around. Al |
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A primer would be a huge help to folks like me who know nothing of ON30 or other NG RRs.
Also, maybe we can have a sticky (kinda like what's in the scenery subsection) with all these cool links folks have posted in their responses. For the past few days I've been slowly going down the post list, looking at photos and going to a few of the links to see what's available in ON30. Thanks again guys...I'm getting closer to getting that 2-6-0, the biggest hurdle is thinking past the "what will I do with it when I get it"  so I'm taking my time deciding. |
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hi - look into the "On30 handbook" to see if it meets any of your needs - it deals with the basics since bachmann became a major player - it is a united kingdom publication - i got one last year - it is primarily based around bachmann products - it was worth the price to me
bob h |
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Bob D.
How much space and what is the configuration of it? A lot of our forumites have only a moderate amount of space. Maybe they could give you some hints. Al |
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Al,
My present 3-rail layout is in a 6x16 foot portion of my garage, with 0-54 curves. I'll probably leave that as is and build a small shelf layout nearby or in another room in the house. I may even try using a 30"x72" folding table, although I'd prefer a shelf layout. I'm going to order the Mogul tomorrow and see how I like it. Here's the deal...The reason I got out of HO was because, at the time, there was not much in the way of stuff for Seaboard Air Line (man has that changed!). I got a RailKing RS3 in SAL paint a number of years ago, thinking it was the only thing I would get. Well now I have 4 engines and 36 cars and I'm finding the same thing in O that I found in HO, not much accurately done for SAL. It's kind of disappointing to see the manufacturers make the same old stuff that they've been making forever with no regard for prototypical SAL items. I figure I'll get this 2-6-0 and create my own RR with nothing that it has to be compared to for prototypical fidelity. Heck, I may not even letter the engine for a while! All the SAL stuff out now in HO has me thinking I should have stayed in HO, but I really like the size of O scale equipment and have no intention of going back (although I still have all my HO engines, rolling stock, and buildings). I've also been wanting to lay track, but regular O scale requires too large a radius, so my thoughts are to give the ON30 a try. Even a small switching layout may hold me over for the time being. |
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If you are wanting a switching layout, you would have to put a front coupler on the 2-6-0. The gas switchers have couplers on both ends. Also, a little less money.
Al |
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Before I hit the "BUY" button I have a few more questions:
1) Is the 2-6-0 DCC Ready? I suspect not, so how easy is it to convert to DCC Ready at a future date? 2) I see Bachmann sells a working front coupler/pilot (29908), is that necessary or is it a simple matter of putting in your own coupler? 3) How is the 2-6-0 non-DCC slow speed performance? If I can't perform switching I'd be wasting my $$$ 4) What needs to be done to a DCC Ready or DCC equipped engine to make them run on a regular DC power supply? 5) Is there anything I'm not asking that I should LOL?!?!?! |
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Hi Bob. I would suggest you go on the 'Bay and purchase a couple pieces of Bachmann ON-30 rolling stock (for cheap). That way you get your hands on them and see(with your own eyes) what size they are. If your hobby shop is like mine, they never heard of ON-30. I started out with one of Bachmann's starter sets with the Mogul,then Bachmann came out with their 2-8-0 and I picked one up on the 'Bay. What a difference! The Consolidation and all rod locos since run like Champs! The addition of pick up on the tender(s) is what made the difference, I think. I improved all mine by changing to a decoder with BEMF; it acts just like speed control. Pick up a couple pieces and hold'em in your hand......you'll see the light.
 This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Norberg, |
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Hey Mike!
I'm going to look for some ON30 stuff at the next train show we have around here. I think you're right, I need to get my hands on it to see for myself. The price of the Mogul is what's making it so tempting, but I'm also leaning towards a ten wheeler. In the meantime I'll keep drooling over all the photos you guys post and look thru my magazines. |
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Wow! I never knew so many of us forumites had similar situations. I'm working on a small hirail layout in my basement, but I designing and will start building my On30 switching layout in an unused bedroom.
Personally, I prefer the Bachmann engines with sound (Shay, Climax, Forney). I have a BLI C-16, but the sound dcc boards that Bachmann uses sounds better to my ears. I own and recommend the On30 annuals - all of them. They are not really primers as such, but each does have valuable information. However I do applaud OGR for producing the occasional On30 article. |
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When we get them, we will run them! Not in every issue, of course, because I doubt that sufficient material will be forthcoming from contributors, but when I do receive a good On30 (or On3) article it certainly will be a contender for publication. It is, after all, definitely O scale no less than 2-rail O scale, even if it isn't O gauge, and my goal is to keep the magazine all-inclusive. That includes O gauge tinplate, as well, and material from the O gauge/scale traction/trolley/subway folks, too, or other "specialty areas" of the O gauge/scale segment. Allan Miller, Editor-In-Chief O Gauge Railroading magazine |
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I think you do a great job, because I am a subscriber!
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It's too bad more O standard gaugers don't get it that O narrow gauge is perfectly consistent with their layouts. |
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