Mike,

I agree that the Grandt line kits are great. They are as affordable as the San Juan kits, when you can get them, and the detail is better. I just finished a Grandt frameless tank car and am now fiddling with it to work on my On30 layout. The biggest problem is coupler height on the Grandt Line (and San Juan) kits when converting to On30. It's easy to squat down a box or stock or reefer car but not so easy for the tank cars.

My other concern with Grandt is that you have to be prepared to wait for your order to be filled ... some times many months. I am scratchbuilding a couple of D&RG reefers and have been awaiting some detail parts for over a month now (unfortunately Caboose Hobbies is out of stock and have been waiting even longer).

Actually, I am wait-listed for the new Accucraft On3/On30 boxcars. The pre-production models look great. Rumor is that we may see them in another couple of months.

Well .. back to scratchbuilding my version of a standard D&RGW coal shed. Lots of 2x6 and 2x12 stock to cut...

Jim

Jim,
The D&RG had some interesting looking "reefers" in the 1880s. I think they were little more than glorified, vented boxcars...but they were cool. I also like their answer to the Tiffanys with the billboard sides that are overly wordy. I prefer the Tiffany's, but I'll be adding the others to my empire in due time.

Which parts are you waiting on?

Michael

Michael,

Actually, I like the "wordy" reefers simply because they are the only ones that mention some of the destinations on the Chili Lines. Here's one that I fooled around with and modified a Bachmann car (I can't recall if I posted this before or not) for but it isn't very satisfying, so I've opted to scratchbuild a couple of others.




At this point, I have orders in to Grandt Line for everthing from turnbuckles to door hardware and everything in between. I'm still looking for a good source of curved grab irons (I hate bending all of those myself). When I get into a scratchbuilding mood, I order extras of everything, just in case I really do build that "string" of cars that usually winds up being a string of one.

Jim

Ah. Wood or plastic for your sting?

Do you use jigs to bend your own? I don't mind it much at all with a jig, but before I started making jigs for grab irons, I hated it.

Michael,

The first one will be wood. If I build a "string", I will make masters out of plastic (without detail parts) and cast sides and ends in resin. When I was in HO, I did that to make strings of 50' ATSF reefers (when they weren't available as kits) and 50' horizontal-ribbed Milwaukee Road boxcars (again, no kits) for a friend of mine. Haven't done any casting in about 10 years, so it will be a re-learning curve, I am sure.

I do have a bending jig for grab irons but I'm getting old and lazy and starting to enjoy the scenery and structures more than the rolling stock and I'm starting to take short cuts.

Jim

Sounds good.

I think I prefer wood for cars that are sporting that out-of-service look that so many modelers prefer (you know, way worse than anything that the real railroads would allow). I prefer plastic for well maintained cars.

I've had enough of casting...as I found resin to be a pain...for now. I'd like to get a more user friendly material than that way-too-quick alumilite stuff. Sure, it is the strongest, but it solidifies way too fast (I don't have a pressure pot either). If I get an easier to use resin, I'll probably add a string of resin cars.

I spent a little time working on my first 1:48th structure last night...it sure seems large to me. It freaks me out to think how much larger the Colorado Central depots were than my 50'x20' Pitkin, Co depot.

Michael

Jim, I get the feeling that orphaned reefer is unloved. There fore, I think you should send it my "Unloved Freight Cars Support Group" so it can regain it's self esteem and become a happy reefer. Our service is free so you would not be charged anything. To prevent fraud only you can retreive the car in person. No mailing as some one may try to deceive us.
Al

Al,

Sounds like a deal! As soon as I've finished the first scratchbuilt reefer, I will send the orphan along to you! Of course, I may require you to come to St Pete (in the dead of winter, of course) to accept delivery of the orphan. So, get your airfare ready. We have three guest bedrooms in case you want to spend a day or two nursing the orphan back to health!

Michael,

I know what you mean about the size of buildings in O scale. When I first started the J&RG, I had this notion that my new town of Valle Grande would build a replica of the Durango depot to serve the railroad. So, I bought plans, etc., started scratchbuilding and discovered that the thing would be over 3' long in O scale. So ... the depot languishes until I complete it and donate to somebody in exchange for something the layout can actually use. In the mean time, Valle Grande will have a much less elegant structure ... but much more manageable in size ... a replica of the Placerville depot. Some times the size scares me as well ... that's why I am sitting here doing a board-by-board of a coal shed that will be roughly 3" x 2" when complete!

I must admit to being too enamored with structures, though; just like scratchbuilding, they take more time and give me more hobby time for the buck spent. I've been exploring cardstock craftsman kits recently and even submitted an article to OGR about how to build them and give them a little more pizzaz.

Well ... back to the salt mines! Gustav has missed us apparently, so I don't get any days off this week to hang up shutters.

Jim

Jim,
I guess the orphan will just have to be unloved, unless I drive down. I have not gotten into and airplane since I gave up my drinking. Anxious to see the pic of the one you are building.
Al

Al,

I understand completely. I didn't fly for over 15 years after getting shot down in Vietnam and, although I fly a lot now, I'm still not a very happy camper. Driving is good too! Or I may have to go up to Mizzou to visit my daughter and husband and swing by Springfield with the orphan. Or an unknown box marked "St Pete Orphan" may show up on your doorstep one day.

Jim

Jim, you bring up the question. Where does your daughter and husband call home? By the way, this is not a bad place to retire.
My dislike for flying came about when my older brothers F86D carshed near Dayton, Ohio, in 1957 and he was unable to parachute. 51st anniversary in October.
I hope you didn't have a stay in the Hanoi Hilton.
By the way, who made those nice HOn3 boxcars in the late 70's? I would set up and construct 5 0r 6 kits at time. Did not take much longer than putting 1 kit together.
Al

Al,

My daughter is in Columbia, teaching at the university, while finishing her doctorate. I don't think I'll have many options upon retirement, we have too much property in Florida and New Hampshire.

As for the Hilton, it was everything they said it was ... just a faded memory at this point. There are more important (and fun) things to worry about.

I can't remember who made those HOn3 boxcars. I had about ten of them that I eventually sold at a show years ago. I sure wish those San Juan and Grandt kits were less expensive ... they are a lot of fun and the pieces fit perfectly, all the time ... but at $60+ a piece, I reckon I will probably kitbash or scratchbuild a lot of my remaining rolling stock.

Jim

quote:

By the way, who made those nice HOn3 boxcars in the late 70's? I would set up and construct 5 0r 6 kits at time. Did not take much longer than putting 1 kit together.
Al

Rail Line. They still offer D&RGW 3000 series boxcars and 5500 series stock cars.

Grandt released there HOn3 cars, I think, in the 1980s. Before that, they offered cars on On3 only. I envy the HOn3 people with so many current & past wonderful offerings from firms like Clear Creek Models, Rio Grande Models, Rail Line, Grandt, Labelle and such. Labelle's cars are so much cheaper in HOn3.

Back to On3...
If you check around, you can get the Grandt kits for $30-$35. Of course, they still need couplers and some may be less decals...and then there is the wheel upgrade for me...NWSL wheels. San Juan's are more difficult in that they don't have a dealership within 200mi of me, they don't allow internet discounters to sell them, and they aren't connected up with Walthers.

Michael

If I remember correctly, those Rail-Line kits were about $10.00 each, which seemed rather pricy at the time. So maybe by comparison todays prices are not that far out of line.
Al

quote:

Originally posted by AL CLAIR:
If I remember correctly, those Rail-Line kits were about $10.00 each, which seemed rather pricy at the time. So maybe by comparison todays prices are not that far out of line.
Al

They have not come close to keeping up with inflation! I just did a rough calculation...that corresponds with appx $32 in 1978...they list for $16 today.

It is really shocking, when adjusting old prices to present dollars...how much cheaper our hobby is now than in the past. Some prices are only 25% of what they were 50 years ago. It really puts the hobby budgets of people like John Allen into perspective

Michael

I hope we have not set off a bunch of price increases.
Al

Nah, I'm sure the 100 different manufacturers of HOn3 D&RGW 3000 series boxcars and 5500 series boxcars can't organize themselves enough to raise prices

Hello to all of our readers. Just want to remind you a very special day is coming up soon. January 29th was the launch day for our current NG Forum. So,
our begging, pleading and contributions to this thread paid off so we need to celebrate our success by buying our wives something we need.
Also, it has been fun for me reading and admiring your work as well as making many new friends. Thanks to all of you.
Al

Al,

We could not have done it without you. You were the one who was persistent enough to get us our own forum ... hat's off to you! After 11 months, I have made a wealth of new friends and visit this forum more than any other. Thanks to those of you who have taught me new things and new skills (and almost all of you have).

I've been working the club table at the Ft Myers train show this weekend and have, of course, purchased several things for Sue that I desperately need for my engine house project. I am sure that she will be thrilled. On the other hand, I did spend part of Thanksgiving day, hiking through the woods down here collecting bromeliads, coontee, and several other plants for her garden ...

Jim

Jim,
I was just a lost voice lost in the mountains. The number of people who came forth with their ideas and good attitudes were the main force to convince Rich to set up this forum. I am sure he did not want another forum with a bunch of rant, rave and negative threads, and waited a while to see if we are a fun bunch.
Al

Jim, love the photo and luck with scratchbuild; once the bug bites it's hard to stop the itch

Al,

Let me add my compliments for your efforts to get our Narrow Gauge Forum. Like others have said, it is my favorite model railroad forum. The decorum here is outstanding - no flame wars like on too many others. The friendly exchange of ideas, encouragement and fine craftsmanship is sure to attract new members curious about narrow gauge.

Paul S

Here are a couple of scratchbuilt flatcars I built (learned to do them from a class given at NMRA by MWB of this forum). The scene is outside in April snow about 2 years ago (northern virginia). Gauge and scale are O. I've since converted the entire layout to O gauge 7/8" scale, which represents 18" narrow gauge.

Since Christmas is coming up, thought you wouldn't mind me posting



Here's a shot of the flat under construction; black thread was used for the supporting part; also, coffee stir sticks and some small lumber and castings

Where are the white metal castings from? Were they cheaper than Grandt Line castings?

Michael

I got the entire kit sans trucks/couplers for something like $10. Maybe more now. MWB might still be selling; he's on this forum; he casts his own stuff like I do.

quote:

Originally posted by SE18:
I got the entire kit sans trucks/couplers for something like $10. Maybe more now. MWB might still be selling; he's on this forum; he casts his own stuff like I do.

I can appreciate that. I messed around with casting my own stuff, but decided that I can fabricate it easier from styrene (most of the time). I don't like to buy anything more than I have to...typically NBWs, wheelsets, and couplers. I both cast and fabricated trucks, and strongly prefer fabricating to resin casting. I'd like to venture into white metal casting.

Michael

white metal is good for stuff that won't be subject to bending; I have cast tin, resin, epoxy and some other materials; I posted stuff before but here's some stuff i have messed around with; the tipper is 100% cast including the wheels; I add metal to epoxy and resin to give it heft; even cast gears; molds made from RTV; temp molds made from clay or sand





everything here cast including the rails



cooking pot of tin outside



here's my relatively new O gauge mining railway (7/8 scale); note the cast concrete viaduct in upper right of photo; stones were placed in the mold. The viaduct is about 30 feet long and each section weights about 100 pounds

looks good! Do you use any special tools, beyond the melting ladle?

What material do you use for your gears and such?

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by SE18:
I got the entire kit sans trucks/couplers for something like $10. Maybe more now. MWB might still be selling; he's on this forum; he casts his own stuff like I do.

Flatcar kit is still in stock & I have a few to spare @ $15 ea - some are K brake and some are AB brake - most are reserved now for doing a clinic the O Scale Nat'l in 2009.

I cast my own brake components and other "stuff" now as well - various resin types...

I'm also looking to start doing some Cerroben casting...

Here was one of the truck sideframes I cast in alumilite...


I wasn't happy with it, so subsequent trucks are fabricated instead. I'm always toying with a switch to brass fabrication.

Here are some fabricated trucks...Colorado Central and South Park prototypes...


Here's some brake rigging, 100% from scratch...


A boxcar with no commercial details (save NBWs)


Caboose (way car) running gear under construction, alongside a 30yr old casting...


And here is the necessary picture of the passenger car...


I'm not certain how many of those have been posted before.

All equipment is either DSP&P or CC in prototype, with only a few commercial parts...passenger car trucks, wheels, couplers. My older equipment is mostly C&S kits/kitbashes...and the necessary D&RGW drop bottom gondola. I have a few non-DSP&P/CC projects planned, but none are started. I'm currently building a pair of Barney & Smith coaches, DSP&P #3 Geneva & #5 Leadville. After those, I'll build combine #1, the Auraria, a couple RPOs (#43 & #44) and Pullmans (South Park, Bonanza, & Leadville).

Michael,

That is beautiful and creative modeling; I'm envious of your talent and craftsmanship. Keep showing us your efforts; they are a real inspiration and encouragement of what is possible in this hobby.

Paul S

quote:

Originally posted by PRSearls:
Michael,

That is beautiful and creative modeling; I'm envious of your talent and craftsmanship. Keep showing us your efforts; they are a real inspiration and encouragement of what is possible in this hobby.

Paul S

Thank you. Just a little willingness to find yourself in over your head and having to throw away some failed parts goes far further than you might believe...or at least it happened that way for me.

Here's my current work...


A DSP&P baggage car from 1880...and a pair of coaches from 1878...built by Barney & Smith...then the leading car firm...and I drove by their former plant today, what remains of it, as the wife and I went to Dayton after church. One of the coaches sort of survived into the 21st century...in very sad shape...and a kin to the baggage car is sitting in the Stuhr Museum.

The baggage car is based on John Maxwell's plan...although clearly it has a variety of errors which I've guesstimated to reconcile them with the folios of the cars as rebuilt and with standard practices...you learn far more about passenger cars when you try to scratch build them accurately.

The coaches are built off of plans I've prepared using standard practices, photos, folios, and pictures of Ward Kimball's coach...which was built to the same design in 1880/81. http://www.oerm.org/pages/GF5.htm

Michael

Good morning, it's still morning here in Missouri anyway.
This week is the anniversary week of the launch of this forum, January, 29, 2008. Almost 300 posts and thousands of views. As they say in these here hills, "Who wouda thunk it?".
After reading some of the other forums, I feel we really have class act here, dominated by a good bunch of classy members.
I feel I have been blessed with a ton of new friends and want all to know I am proud to be a part of this forum. I hope you feel the same way and we can say"We did it."
Al

Al,

Congrats on the first year of the Narrow Gauge Forum ... your persistence has paid many dividends to all of us ... Lots of new friends, very fine model builders, and many new ideas.

Jim

Good morning everyone. Last night I did some snow plowing with the plymouth critter. It had trouble getting thru the wet and icy (freezing rain) snow. I did take some video but wasn't happy with results.

So I went inside to get my O gauge 100% steel double-bogie industrial engine I built, as it has more weight and can better push thru (using a 3-rail Williams motor in it), but seems a connection somewhere is bad (wire broken) that I have to look into fixing this week, then I'll post video.

As you know, I've got multigauge 1 and 0 but am ripping out all the gauge 1 and replacing the remaining portion with O. I'm also getting ready to build stub switches as soon as the snow melts. The weather is bad but also mulching the area and placing rocks to step on and get around so all the plants don't crunch.

As for vole's BB takes care of those

I promised myself I'd lay off doing railroad work, btw, until I finish writing a book; but cheated a bit, as I'm finishing up a long article for Military History Magazine I'm titling:Blood and Iron: Railroads Go to War

mulch



Plymouth



Hound eating vole

Very nice. Whenever I see videos of snow fighting on the outdoor layout...I have the desire to switch to a garden railway...

I feel the same when I see the gorgeous indoor photos. I do intend to do a very modest indoor layout in near future; O gauge narrow of course (but in a larger scale)

For those of you that have considered out door railroading, here is the website of our garden railroad club. The pics of my and the wife's layout were taken in it's 2nd season.

OGRS.ORG

Al

Al, nice work on the outside railroads. Unfortunately, there are no O gauge (2 rail) narrow gauge outside railroaders near me, so when the term Garden is used, it usually denotes Gauge 1.

Yesterday, I built a small wagon, regauging the wheels of a New Bright tender from Gauge 1 to O gauge.

Here she is, being used to collect firewood, as the weather outside is frosty



spokes

It should be fairly easy to regauge some of my wheels from 45 to 32 mm with the use of a cresent wrench or wrench, as these wheels are fastened to screws with nuts.

Since Saturday promises rain and snow, might be a nice time to turn out more wheels of various sizes without turning them on a lathe or milling machine which I don’t have.

While casting is fun and nice, these steel wheels and axles give far greater heft and lower the center of gravity.

Simply grab a handful of washers, file or grind them for a couple of seconds to get a rough surface, then epoxy them together.

For my next batch, I’ll be using plain steel rods and turning threads on the end with a die. They will be used for outside frame so the smooth rod (axle) will turn nicely in its sleeve under the body.

With 7/8 wheels at $9-$18 an axle in 7/8 scale (O gauge) or more, and the Great Depression nearly upon us, here’s a way to save some money and have fun with a relaxing project.

David, that is good old American inginuity (sic) at work. The ability to change the gauge is quite clever.

Just a side note, Tornado Alley is awake already this year. We had storms come up from Ok. and Texas Tuesday night and 1 undected class F1 came across Springfield around 11:00 P.M.. I was in our sunroom when I heard a strong gust of wind that lasted about 10 or 15 seconds overhead. Yesterday morning we heard on the news that is was a tornado. The best I can figure by tracking the twister on a city map, it passed within 200 yards. Thankfully, it was in the air and then it touched down about 1&1/2 miles to the N.E. of our house very close to St. John's hospital. We had no damage.

As it is written in the Ozarks Lore, "If you don't like the weather, wait 10 minutes.

I anticipate starting work in our garden about mid March, don't know if I am going to make any changes.

Al

I must congratulate you on developing a creative, inexpensive solution to the wheel set issue. How well do they roll?

They roll really well. The trick is centering the washers and rubbing some epoxy so the tires are smooth on the outside (as well as epoxy attaching them together.

I used to live in Arkansas so we'd get tornadoes on a regular basis and many people had holes dug outside (bunkers with emergency supplies), esp those in trailers, which seem to attract more than normal tornadoes

Went to Target yesterday to get a Valentine gift. Detoured to toy section and found a GeoTrax by Fisher Price, exactly O gauge 32mm!

So I bought it for $18. Something to play with and could represent a mine train. Of course it needs paint, needs different couplers, and needs a 7/8 scale figure (this figure is 5' tall using a 7/8 scale ruler, better representing 16mm scale; of course some short people do exist!). I do have a bonafide 7/8 figure and it fits inside but needs some adjustment as it wants to fall over.

Also, needs some other detailing like the control mechanisms and such.

I just took it outside in the bright sun and ran it! That despite what I think may be IR control from the remote! The proof is in the pudding, as the sunny YouTube shows. Unfortunately, the range is just 12' but I'm usually that close by anyway. I haven't seen it go less than 12' unless an object is blocking the line of sight.

I ran it on some code 148 I had lying about but it will go on code 250 which represents around 50lb in 7/8, once my order arrives of rail!

The unit comes, as I said, with remote control and even has some really cool sound effects. The speed on the unit is very prototypical, meaning slow.

The biggest drawback to the unit (which could be an advantage in particular cases), is the drive gear goes directly from the motor to about rail height in the center. You can see the white gear in one of the below photos. The problem arises when you cross a switch. The gear hits the closure rail. There's a slight bump but it keeps going as it's a trooper.

I tried to get to the gears but the motor is completely sealed. The screws underneath only separate the lower motor from the upper body, which houses 3 AAA batteries and the remote/sound circuitry.

The handheld uses 3 AAA batteries as well. Mine are rechargeables.

Now, the advantage comes if you wish to incorporate a section of rack on the line.

Some European railways incorporated a rack in steep grades. The gear catches the rack! Otherwise, the gear does no harm on 2 rail track, spinning harmlessly above the ballast until it meets a closure rail.





In the below shot you can also see the beginning of my stub switch





Here's a very short YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ1ZzVh-cik

SE19-----I don't know how old you are but you probably weren't around in the mid and late fifties. Back then they had a guy who wrote columns mostly in RMC about tram ways, mining roads and industrial narrow gauges just like you are modelling. Have you ever heard of the late Dick Andrews? I guess you were probably born too late. Just remember King Solomon said there is "nothing new under the sun". Odd-d

David,

Good grief, leave it to you to find something like that. Excellent.

Ed R

born 57 unfortunately don't know Mr Andrews.

incidentally, I showed my work thus far to a fellow modeller who uses 32mm (O gauge) code 120 track. For obvious reasons, he needed to decrease the flange depth. Here's what he wrote. Incidentally, I wonder if any of you have ever tried this method? He purchased the tubing from TruValue, said HD and L don't have. It's a plumbing material.

Quote:

I bought one,
Well I checked Target and Wal-Mart, no luck. My 10 year old daughter thought Toys R Us would be a good place to check and sure enough they had them. I have begun some modifications and testing. I thought about changing the wheels, the axles are not easily removable. I then attempted to use heat shrink tubing on the tread to increase the wheel size therefore reducing the flange depth. The heat shrink pops off the tapered, plastic wheel tread as fast as I could heat it. I discovered that 5/8", thin wall clear vinyl tubing is a decent press fit for the wheels and sticks to the plastic well. This increased the wheel diameter to just over 3/4" and reduced the flange depthI was able to pull two small ore cars on 32mm track in one direction quite well.

Al,

I have been in process of reducing my 3-rail collection. It consists of one engine a three cars. Soon, the track will be one outer oval. My plan is to add On30. There will be an upper level consisting of both a mining town of some sort including an interchange with the 3-rail loop on the lower level. The location will be Northern/Northwestern NJ. Time period 1920's-1930's more or less.

For the sake of cost, Atlas Code 100 N/S HO rail will be used. Either a switchback or a sweeping curve will used to go between levels. I still have my books on wiring when I only had HO so I don't anticipate any problems from that angle.

I will be getting my jollies out of scratchbuilding structures and locomotive bodies. This will be a blast.

Hi gang,
I have been browsing this orginal thread just for fun and it struck me that we have not had any recent news on the B-MANN ten wheeler (4-6-0). Do any of you have a heads up on the release date? Maybe our editor can enlighten us.
Al

I thought it was December. The real question is, will it beat the BLI 2-8-0s which were due this past fall...

Of course, the B-man isn't going through the fun that BLI's been through in the past 6 months.

I've been thinking about getting one of the new B-man engines...or maybe two...and bashing one into a Slim Princess 4-6-0.

Michael