Jim, fantastic layout!

Hi, I posted this to it's own thread, not knowing that this thread exist.It was suggested that I move it to here. I'm part of a 3 rail Hi-Rail 24' x 55' display layout. The layout is historicaly based on the PA Anthracite Coal region in the 1925-1945 period. Part of this layout has a steep grade where 6 30' std guage hoppers were pulled up this grade by a steam engine. We tried this with a couple of standard 3 rail engines and they just couldn't do it. While not prototypical I'm suggesting something like a Shay or Hiesler 0n30 engine. Probably Bachmann Are these good pullers ? 3 rail Shays are out of limited budget. They run abou $700. Thanks in advance for any replies, Dave. North Schuylkill High Railers Frackville PA

I think that I responded on the other thread, but I think that the On30 shay from Bachmann will pull things up your grade just fine. In my case, I can pull about 6 loaded log-buggies up a 3% grade with no problem. I assume that you will be creating a 2-rail On30 loop for your layout? The Bachmann shays are designed for 2-rail DCC operation. I couldn't even begin to think of the conversion necessary for 3-rail standard-gauge operation.

Jim

Yes 2 rail 0n30 DC or DCC. Thanks, Dave

BTW I have a narrow guage for dummies question. What is the difference between 0n30 and 0n3? Is it one is 30" track guage, and the other 36" ? Thanks, Dave

That's correct, Dave! The On30 measure is also known in some places as On2-1/2, but that's a far less convenient way to express the designation. On2 represents 2-foot gauge, On30 (in inches) represents 30-inch gauge), and On3 represents 3-foot gauge (which, in the U.S., was the far most prevalent prototype gauge).

I call it On2.5

here's some views of narrow gauge in my yard



you can see where the rusty tubular track nicely joins the brass near the multigauge escape (32 (O) and 45mm)





A completely new O gauge mine tramway is under construction



ye ole shed



nature is taking over previously laid track

David,

Very nice work! I've been trying to get my father-in-law to give the Sandy River a try in his garden in New Hampshire. I think I will forward him this thread and show him what it would look like.

Jim

Bachmann quality? Our display layout inherited some Bachmann 0n30 equipment. Some is new in the box. I would guess it's early issue and not Spectrum. I am surprised at the appearant frailness of it, mainly the engines. There is an 0-6-0 and a 2-8-0. The drivewheels and the siderods appear to be real frail. Are the newer spectrums more hardy than these? Thanks, Dave

quote:

Originally posted by cruikshank:
Bachmann quality? Our display layout inherited some Bachmann 0n30 equipment. Some is new in the box. I would guess it's early issue and not Spectrum. I am surprised at the appearant frailness of it, mainly the engines. There is an 0-6-0 and a 2-8-0. The drivewheels and the siderods appear to be real frail. Are the newer spectrums more hardy than these? Thanks, Dave

Are you sure you have On30 equipment? Unless I am way off (and that wouldn't be too surprising), Bachmann has never issued an 0-6-0 in On30. As far as I know the 2-8-0 (outside frame consolidation) is a recent DCC equipped loco and, in my opinion, one of the best running On30 engines ever made. The siderods do seem a little delicate but that's because the detail is so spot-on. Don't confuse high levels of detail with delicacy. They are real work horses on my layout! About ten years ago, the first issue of 2-6-0 (moguls) may have had some issues but I find that they are pretty darn hardy as well; their greatest problem was that they were not DCC-ready (at least for the plug-n-play type installations). Broadway Limited also makes a sound-equipped 2-8-0 (based on the D&RGW C-16) which sounds pretty good but some times runs a little quirky (especially in reverse) but I have found that they are fairly hardy as well. I suspect that you don't have original Bachmann engines or that they have been modified or kitbashed on HO mechanisms.

Jim

I'll have to take some pictures, and post what I have. I'm sure they are 0n30 because I have the origional box. Dave

As Jim P. noted, Bachmann has never made an 0-6-0 in On30 (at least not yet). Someone could possibly have modified something to create an 0-6-0, but for sure Bachmann didn't make it. If they had, I would have about four or five of them.

Bachmann introduced their On30 line in 1998, initially as sets to complement the popular Dept. 56 ceramic village lines, and subsequently as sets and separate sale items--all of which are now in their "Spectrum" line.

The only thing cheap about Bachmann's On30 line is the price. The On30 stuff they make--and I have some of just about everything they offer--is as well made as any trains I've seen in any scale, and generally far more affordable.

The 2-8-0s are relatively recent introductions to the line (within the last year or so), and there's sure nothing second class about them either.

IIRC, all of Bachmann's On30 stuff is Spectrum. The shays are really small two truckers and run less than $200.

On30 can be diced into several categories...and On30 modelers aren't rogues...they're more common than On3 modelers. There are On30ers whom model 3' gauge prototypes...then there are the 2' gauge modelers...then there are the industrial modelers. Surprisingly absent (to me) are the central american modelers...using On30 to model either 2' of 3' gauge just looks odd to me...but that Bachmann 2-8-0 would look mighty fine working on a jungle themed layout.

I just got back from Hawaii yesterday, and I visited the Hawaii Railway on Oahu. They had (I think) one 30" gauge locomotive and a trio of 3' gauge locomotives (one of which was a beautiful 0-6-0). They had a nice assortment of freight cars and 3 wooden passenger cars...and some diesels.

Ok, so it was actually all 3' gauge except for their 40 & 8 car.

Here are a few pictures...

an 0-4-2


The gorgeous 0-6-0...as large and powerful as the class 56 2-8-0s that Baldwin built for numerous railroads.


A shot in the yards


The odd private car


One of the boxcars

I'd love build a model of the 0-6-0...but not right now. I'll probably build a model of one of their 30' wood boxcars first.

The Oahu Railway was quite a bit more than a sugar plantation road...it was a 70+ mile long railroad with automatic block controls, a double track mainline, and 2-8-2s. Most of the freight cars at the Ewa shops were steel cars with wooden sides...quite state of the art for the 1940s.

Thanks for sharing those great photos. The private car makes me think of a party barge on the lake. I wonder, has anyone ever tried or built a layout with an island island theme?
Again, South Park, and the rest of you who have posted your pics, thanks a bunch.
Al

Al,
One of the authors of the Oahu Railway book is building a layout...but I don't know anything beyond the one line and track plan he posted on the book's website. After being there...the prospect of modeling a chunk of the OR&L with those 0-6-0s, an MMI 4-4-0 (modernized), an MMI 2-8-2, and some of their outside frame 4-6-0s is mighty appealing. But I'll come back to my senses and focus on the South Park...tonight I did a little bit more on the paint/lettering job for my mogul #40.

I'd love to see pictures of a tropical island themed layout. The only coastal layouts I can think of right now are Maine in HOn30, the HOn3 Port Caribou, and various dock scenes...

Michael

Have you seen Tom Miller's 1:20.3 Scale, 45 mm gauge layout in the (latest) May/June Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette? My jaw still hurts from hitting the floor after seeing the photos - incredible! It's going to be one of the layouts on the Narrow Gauge Convention tour in September.

Back in my live steam days, I had a tape of Tom's 1-1/2" scale, live steam Big Boy pulling forty freight cars. I believe he had it custom built in Britain(?) from blueprints. Deep pockets for sure!

Paul S

Very impressive! Thanks for the heads up...I checked their website and saw the cover.

The deepest pockets I've ever heard of for a narrow gauge enthusiasts was that in the 1980's, a prominent Denver attorney investigated a rebuild of the South Park's Boreas Pass line in between Como and Breckenridge. He rounded up a few pieces, including one of the C&S rotaries, but ultimately decided against the project. One issue was that the line would have the most tourists in the winter...and Boreas Pass was extremely expensive to operate in the Winter...the primary reason it had been abandoned in the first place.

Hey all you narrow minded types.
Where are all those pics you took while visiting the Colorado Shrine (narrow gauge) and your other works on the layouts and the gardens. Have sure been missing your beagle David.
Al
If anybody wants pics of my wife's garden (She is the worker, I am the drone in the garden) just send me your email address and I can pass some along to you.
Take care,
Al

Just climbed out of the Grand Canyon after a week of white water rafting and hiking. Will be back home in a few days and will post what few pictures I have of a new section of my layout. Not much narrow gauge around here but I did ride the Heber Creeper before going into the canyon and took the Grand Canyon railway out last night.

Jim

Jim,
Sounds like a young mans adventure to me. Now, will you qualify for one of the survivor shows? Glad you made it.
Al

Al,

Who says I'm not young? Actually, I feel very old right now (with two sore knees) but I have a young wife (I'm 59, she's 56 and insists on all these "adventures") [we always have a great time!]. A survivor? Give me another day or two for the sunburn and windburn to subside and I will let you know. Actually, we take students to southern Africa every other summer, so this one was pretty much "a walk in the park".

As promised, here's one more picture of my layout. Still abuilding, this is the outskirt of my town of Valle Grande. A similar picture (but better) may appear in the OGRR article about my layout. Just realized, I didn't weather the tracks.



Hope this looks okay.

Jim

Jim, your pic gets A+. Whose track have you used? Are those drovers going to recover enough from their hangovers to start back to the ranch today. Nice concept.
Al
P.S. Sounds like your wife does a good job of keeping you healthy.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim193:
Still abuilding

Now you wouldn't be a model railroader if you weren't

Looks good.

The track is Peco mostly, although I have handlaid a little myself, here and there. I have the notion to replace all of it with the new MicroEngineering track some day, but the Peco does well enough for right now.

Jim

Jim,

I love the detailing you did in this scene. Good use of color and natural-looking scenery. Are those scratch-built buildings? What OGRR issue will your layout be in? I don't subscribe but I'll look for that issue at the local Barnes & Noble.

Beautiful work - show some more.

Paul S

Paul,

Thanks for the support! I have been told that the October (Run 231) issue will be devoted to narrow gauge and that will be the issue that my layout will appear.

The buildings are a mix of kits and scrathbuilt. The larger building with the "Land of Pueblos" is a kitbashed movie theater, "Bingo's" is a Downtown Deco kit. The other two buildings are modified cardstock buildings from Clever models. If you go to their website, their blog has a picture of my version of the taller building. I am pretty much sold on the cardstock buildings for special situations. They are easy to modify and with a little detailing, turn out some pretty good stuff. The cattle loader is a modified Banta kit, the "trail" crew, chuck wagon, etc., is an old Revell kit that I have had since I was a kid (talk about pack rats!).

Jim

Jim, I am sure your artical it is going to be a thing of beauty and a joy forever (Untill the Almighty takes us home)for a lot of us mortals.

As I set here after midnight with a glass of wine, with a severe thunder storm in full force, I have been pondering over all of the likes and dislikes of you NMF (short for Narrow Minded Folks) or no memory found, my question is this: How about the following? What is your opinion of your motive power, have you improved it in some way, would you buy it again, and what would you like to see produced by some mfg. The same question would apply to rolling stock, kits or other items we build or use. It is hot inside the garage and outside activities are priority now, but maybe you could take a few minutes to add your ideas to make our life more fun.

Al

Sleep well.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: AL CLAIR,

Al,

If I had my "druthers", I'd love to see a good sturdy On30 ten-wheeler (4-6-0) [something like the D&RGW T-12 but I won't be too picky ... the EBT had some nice ones also). My passenger operations need something a little fancier than the mogul that's pulling them now and K-27's just look goofy on the minimum radius I have on the layout. Bachmann's new 4-4-0 is a little small for my liking.

As for rolling stock, I'd like to see a good open-frame tank car. I know that San Juan is going to be releasing kits (for about $60 per) and RTR (for about $80 per) but I won't be able to afford many of them. I have a couple of old Grandt line On3 kits that I am converting to On30 [off ebay for about $30 each) and I will make do with them, I guess. I love the San Juan kits but they are so darn expensive! One would think that, as popular as they are, the prices might go down ....

As for my existing engines, I have been very satisfied with Bachmann On30 engines, right out of the box. They run smoothly and are well detailed. I don't do much modification (a few detail parts here an there), just a little weathering. I have seen the Backwoods Miniature engines at the National Narrow Gauge Conventions and they seem to run great and are highly detailed but I've never purchased one. The lone MMI K-27 that I have runs well (I severed the sound unit a long time ago) so I am waiting for their T-12 (it won't appear for a couple of years - I'd rather have Bachman make one as it would be cheaper).

Well ... gotta mow the lawn. We're going to the beach for the weekend.

Jim

Jim, mowed the lawn and did the trimming yesterday. Good thing, it rained all night. Enjoy your week end at the beach. I noticed you don't seem to have a road name on your rail bus and am wondering if you have not picked a name as of yet.

I get a lot of my equipment from St. Aubin Station in Woodstock, Il. They are a large G-Scale dealer and carry Bachmann ON-30 and Mountain Model Imports as well. I find there pricing very attractive. They are selling RGS #5 Passenger Goose with sound and DCC for $129.89 (Cat# PCM425) or a standard DC, no sound painted silver and unlettered for $79.89. (Cat# PCM 440). These are Precision Craft units and they are nice. The sound is really awsome. If you are interested, their website is www.staubintrain.com and the phone number is 1-888-782-8246. I try to talk to Bob when I call. I usually get 2 day service.

I am running 2 Broadway Limited C-16'and a Bachmann 2-8-0 with out DCC that runs like a swiss watch. My story is a flat land narrow gauge operating at the end of steam serving an Amish community. All of the equipment is 2nd hand from the Colorado narrow gauge lines. I have not settled on the name, but maybe one day.

I wonder if anybody has kitbashed a T-12 or the RGS number 20. If so let us know.

Al

This message has been edited. Last edited by: AL CLAIR,

It is always interesting to see what is offered...aside from the modern K-27s and C-16s which are clearly the most popular since they've been offered dozens of times (there are 2 (was going to be 3) diecast K-27s in HOn3...there are 3 current non-brass options for C-16s in On30).

It would be neat to see a Baldwin 28ton 2-8-0...which was far more common than the 30ton 2-8-0s (Rio Grande C-16s/Class 60s)...and they used the same mechanisms as the C-16s.

I rejoice that MMI has offered a Baldwin catalog 4-4-0...even if it is expensive.

I'd like to see a medium sized shay...Spectrum's are abnormally small and MMI's are large...I'd like to see the common 2-truck, modern shays.

A nice late 1890s 4-6-0...such as the F&CC/RGS/N-C-O/KG&S/GC/SP 4-6-0...these Schenectady 4-6-0s are decent stand ins for ET&WNC 4-6-0s which were a less common design (extended smoke box being the biggest visual difference).

More variations on the C-18s...such as F&CC/D&RG/Uintah/Eureka-Nevada/CC&CS/Montana Southern...a more modern, larger Baldwin 2-8-0 than the C-16s.

Some generic, standard 1900 AC&F freight cars...some 1880s/1890s J&S 40' passenger cars...both of these were quite common.

A Porter-Bell 2-6-0/0-6-0...widely used from New England to California...as well as Colorado...uses the same drivers that the Spectrum 4-4-0 uses...while not being an obscure prototype.

A Brooks 1880's 2-6-0...very common on many roads...37" drivers like a C-16...

Some outside frame power...2-8-0s or 4-6-0s...

A Mason Bogie...either big like the DSP&P engines...or small like the many 0-4-4ts...not the same thing as a forney (forney's drivers were rigid...a Mason bogie's drivers swiveled like a truck).

Al,

Well, the mowing is done so I have the rest of the afternoon off to finish my scratchbuilt adobe blacksmith shop (pictures next week, I hope). I'm giving a talk about modeling adobe structures in a couple of weeks, so I had to build something to prove it could be done ...

The railbus will be lettered for the home road (J&RG). Just haven't gotten there yet. As the article in the magazine will detail, the road is buying up pretty much anything that still runs and some stuff "just ain't been painted yet". Some days, the CEO is extremely lazy!

I do have a "Goose" running around the layout already and you are correct ... they sound terrific!

Jim

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jim193,

Well, back from the beach and I finished this off last night. This is my version of a blacksmith shop (herrero) built of adobe. I think it turned out pretty well. As usual, I build my structures on sheet styrene and put them into a frame for detailing before I transfer them to the layout. The interior lighting was tricky but needed ...



A little closer view of the interior ... as it will be seen on the layout.



And another ... I just realized that no matter how many coats of dullcote, figures are still, sometimes, coming out shiny ....



Anyway, it was fun ... now back to some rolling stock.

Jim

Jim, that is a very neat building. I could just about feel the sweat running down the middle of my back. Have you told us the size of your layout?
Al

Al,

The layout occupies an area of about 14' x 16' (so far) in our enclosed two-car garage. When we moved to Florida four years ago, I got the garage in exchange for the pool in the backyard (my wife is now rennovating that!). Although not complete, I am already contemplating tearing out some early sections to put in new and more detailed scenery.

Jim

I just found this.....have been a 3 railer O for a long time and have been into the On30 since I saw prototypes at the Bachmann booth at RCHTA in the early 1990's. At the time I asked about them and was told 'just something for fun we are working on'...the fun project has gone pretty far!

If I had seen ON30 a year before I went back into 3R, I would not have a 3R layout today. Instead I saw it a year to two later, and by that time I pretty commited to the 3R. Lionel was coming out with TMCC and new neat stuff and with the investment I had made I held off on the ON30. My great fall began when I saw my first Bachmann 2-8-0 in operation. Well, I bought a 2nd hand flat car, then a C-16 and then it got worse. I enjoy having my 3R and ON30 run at the same time. That's my story and I am standing behind it.

Anyway Dave, glad you found this thread and we hope to see some more posts from you.

Al

Dave,

Yeah ... this On30 stuff is pretty addictive! Welcome to the thread ... hope we can see some of your work! Everything that I see gives me some new ideas.

Jim

Jim, that structure is incredible! Awesome work. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks to everybody for their comments, enthusiasm, and support. I am gratified that my work is well received. Bob Brown has asked me to do an article for NG&SL Gazette about the "adobe" construction. That was kind of neat. Well ... back to botching a Grandt line tank car ... somehow I managed to confuse the A and B ends so I am having to undo some things ...

Jim

Jim, I am looking forward to your article. It looks like a good way to build some different buldings.

Allan Miller, have not seen anything from you lately. How is progression on the new Carpet, or is it Table Top Central coming along?

Al Clair

Jim, that building looks very nice. The clutter and person really enhances it.

I can't recall if I've posted photos or not...but here is one of my current projects...

I scrapped my old roof (visible in the pictures)...as I'd made a few mistakes on it...and it took a while to work up the will to replace it. The new roof took 5.5hrs to build...a tiny fraction of the time the first one took...due to new and improved construction techniques.




Michael

Michael,

Your scratchbuilding is incredible! I am envious! I can't wait to see the finished product. It will be, no doubt, a thing of beauty. Obviously this is being aimed at the next National Narrow Gauge convention? Great work!

Jim

DSP&P Fan----The sight of your passenger coach makes me sweat! It is so lacy that it might be almost too delicate to actually build the roof in place. How do you plan to apply and form the roof without crushing it? Beautiful work....Keep it up. Odd-d

Thank you guys!

Actually, the car is just for my layout. I may enter it in a contest at some point, but I'm building it this way primarily because I enjoy it, to save money, and to get it right. I'm 25yrs old, so my construction plan is a little different than most model railroaders I know...emphasis on scratch building everything to minimize the cost...and planning for the long run. I want every detail to be correct so I'll still be happy with it 50yrs from now (approximate models in the past have left me less than satisfied...I'm very un-happy with the Grandt Line doors on my waycar). I intend to also build 2 coaches, 1 combine, one BMX, one sleeper, 1 baggage, and a couple business cars over the next 2-3 years...all using the same construction techniques. My freight cars and waycar (caboose) are also built with the same techniques

The roof is actually quite durable. My plan is to heat up some 0.010" thick styrene and pre-curve it. The roof is removable, so it won't be quite as difficult as if it were permanently fixed.

Here's my construction techniques for the roof:
1st I measured the roof profiles on several 3' passenger cars (plans for an EBT combine, F&CC coach, DSP&P baggage car, DSP&P Pullman, and the prototype for this car). I drew an optimal profile onto a scale 2"x12" piece of styrene (optimal because the prototypes drawing had too sharp of a contour...see the old roof in the background).
2nd I cut out this 2x12 profile to serve as a master for tracing out 18 more...and the end peices...cutting them out with an x-acto (actually, I just cut many of them directly using the master as a jig)
3rd I put the carlines side by side and filed them to be close
4th I cut out the bottom sides of the carlines (except the end ones)...as I want the head space above the seats.
5th I put together the clerestory frame and attached it to the end carlines.
6th I cut out spacers to ensure that the carlines were square (and it gives me something to glue the roof to in between the carlines)
7th I glued the carlines and spacers into place...with a jig temporarily propping up the clerestory until the carlines were in place to prevent it from sagging.

Next up, I'll form the ends with their nasty compound curves (shouldn't be too difficult if I use the same technique as the carlines). I'll also form the carlines for the top of the clearstory.

Finally, I'll complete the roof by heating up 0.010" thick styrene and rolling a pencil over it to get it to curl. I'll then glue it to each roof section.

Here's a picture of the Needlebeams/QPs under construction:


Michael

hey all,

placed a few new pics on the site this weekend. still working on plaster as of today. going to start a bit of a cleanup as my dad is coming into town in a couple weeks. so i want the layout ready for his visit. this fall i plan on getting the raggs to riches coaling tower built and placed in the yard.

have a great day! and thanks.

mike

http://www.michaelluczak.com/On3.html

Looks nice! Is the rotary from Berlyn?

Zak,

Really looks terrific! I am sure your dad will be impressed. Very nicely done! Wish I had something classy to post but I will have to wait a few more days for the next project to see the light of day.

Jim

Michael,

Your scenes really inspire me - beautifully done!

Paul S

thanks everyone.

the rotary is an overland models piece. i think berlyn only did RGS? anyway. thanks again.