Guys and Gals,
Check out David Vergun's thread on WWI military railroads if you have not yet scoped it out.
Al

If you have not discovered Topzone.com, you may be passing up a great source of information. Topozone provides topo maps showing hiways, topography, existing railroads and many abandoned rail roads. If you are interested in the route of your favorite rail road, you may want to check out this site. You can get a nice map of Cumbres Pass.
Al

Topzone is very good. I've also used aeronautical "Sectional" maps besides the topographical maps one can order from the US Geological Survey. Topzone is easier and faster and may give all the information you may need. It's fun to look at the topography and play "locating engineer" and plan a plausible route from A to B of a fictitious railroad.

With sufficient topological detail (real or imaginary), you can calculate grades, curves and locations of bridges and tunnels. With this route information, you can then determine probable train speeds over the route and create a schedule(s). I've done this on two imaginary railroads in Oregon. I then wrote a fictitious history of each describing the development of local industry (logging in both cases) and the creation, construction and operation of the railroad that developed to support these industries. You can let your imagination run wild or include some factual events that gives the story more credence. If you are modeling part of an actual railroad, its history already exists.

Personally, I find researching and writing a history fun and rewarding. I normally mix factual and fictitious events and characters to achieve a plausible story line. For me, a fictitious, detailed history makes modeling easier since I have a "paper prototype" to model. My railroads usually connect to a prototype somewhere so I have the excuse to run a particular railroad's equipment. For example, at the present time, I'm interested in On3 and modeling D&RGW equipment in the 1930s. I'm still looking at possible scenarios but one that has promise is a fictitious branchline running south or southwest from Farmington, NM. This will let me create an imaginary operation but still run D&RGW equipment. It might even be a bridge line that connects with the Santa Fe or Southern Pacific to the south.

Over time, I modify and rewrite parts of the history several times as I discover (or imagine) more facts and events about the region, industry or railroad that makes the story more believable. I then extract the most interesting elements of the history to incorporate into a layout. I suppose most layouts have similar origins although they may not have a detailed, written history. My technique is one that developed from many years of "arm chair modeling."

Paul S

PRSearls:

Using Digital Elevation Models in conjunction with Microsoft Train Simulator's "Editors And Tools"... you can actually import scale terrain into a virtual world, then lay rails over it and "see" what it would have looked like had such a railroad been built, in "real time/real miles". If you go ahead and complete the route project... you can virtually "railroad" therein!

I have done that on several occasions, including freelanced railroads, as well as resurrecting abandoned railroads that I have had a long time interest in. It's fascinating.

Andre Ming
Eastern OK

Andre,
I would love to see what you have done and how you do it. If you would email your location to me, I may be in the area this summer (if it ever gets here) and intrude on you. My son lives in Adair and a former pastor lives in Durant.
Would this be something you could post for us?
Al

Do any of you have MMI K-36s on order? I got an update from Bruce Kinkner at Southwest Narrow Gauge stating he expects them to arrive in mid-May. Last week I received a K-27 with a Tsunami decoder - it really sounds great and runs very smoothly. It's much heavier than my C-19 Consolidation. The K-36 should be even heavier with its larger boiler. I'm running my engines with a NCE Power Cab. In programming track mode, it can read all the Tsunami CVs. I've had fun fine-tuning the decoders to make the engines run and sound the way I want (not too loud).

I'm getting interested in scratch-building a two stall engine house/machine shop for my fictitious New Mexico narrow gauge. What are you using for an engine house? Do you have a turntable? My first was a scale 130' HO model by Diamond Scale. This was a very nice looking model and it became a pattern for a second one I built shorter for smaller engines. Making the pit was easy; I used several layers of MDF and my router to cut out the pit. This works nicely but is very dusty routing MDF. I built the bridge using plywood sides with scale angles and tees. I don't have a riveting machine so this one lacking this important detail.

What kind of narrow gauge projects are you working on?

Paul S

I've just registered at the forum since there is some actual On3 discussion here! Here's a little background on me and my On3 addiction...

I moved from HO to HOn3 my sophomore year of high school, and then to On3 five years ago. I'm a grad student, so I model On3 on a tight enough budget that MMI is really out of reach.

I model on a budget...with an emphasis on scratch building cars over kits and/or structures. My only real power is a Balboa Cooke 2-6-0. I have 7 completed (or nearly) modern pieces of rolling stock from kits...and a string of completely scratch build South Park cars at varying stages of completion (a stock car, a pair of gondolas, a pair of boxcars, a waycar, a flat car, a lime car, and a passenger car). All but the passenger car have scratch built trucks...with NWSL wheels...I typically try to get freight cars on the track for $15-$20 (excluding decals).

Future projects include a South Park 1883 Cooke or 1880 Baldwin 2-8-0, a few Colorado Central cars, a Utah & Northern dump car, a pair F&CC Victor Gold Mining gondolas, an EBT 2-bay (as delivered with arch bar trucks), more DSP&P cars, and a C&S reefer. I will be re-powering and re-painting my 2-6-0...and adding a Tsunami. (I also have a PCM Goose which has hooked me on dcc/sound)

My layout is an 8'x15' oval...no scenery (so far)...of a sectional/modular design...although the woodwork hasn't been started and the wiring is temporary. My only structures are unbuilt kits of the DSP&P's Gunnison depot and the CC/C&S Forks Creek Station.

Michael

Hey Michael,
Good to hear from you and we extend you a narrow minded welcome. This thread is intended to enable you to ask questions and show your works. We are happy that although you are going to school, you are able to enjoy your hobby. Feel free to post your questions, and if nobody comes up with an answer, surely somebody will come up with a lie. Welcome abroad!
Al

Hello Michael,

Let me add my welcome to Al's. It sounds like you've gotten a good start into narrow gauge. The "early years" of Colorado narrow gauge were golden and full of opportunity for modeling. I'm new to On3 myself with no operable layout at the moment - just a couple engines, a few car and structure kits and dreams. I've picked SW Colorado in the late 1930s for my modeling so I can run some of the later steam locomotives I admire.

What kind of track are you using, flex, hand-laid or a combination? My test track is 9' of flex but I have the ties, code 83 and 100 rail and a Fast Track jig for building #6 switches. I've built six switches so far - they are easy and fun to make - my first ever attempt to build switches. They look good and perform very well. I'm going to try my hand at scratch building a 36"/40" radius curved turnout using their #12 point and frog filing jig and rail bender.

I'm also using a NCE PowerCab system (my first plunge into DCC). I like the NCE very much since it's very "user friendly." It also has sufficient power to read and program all the Tsunami CVs on the programming track. I've changed many of them to get a lower volume and mix of sounds I prefer. I'm lucky to live near the Illinois Railway Museum where they have run a 2-10-0 Frisco Decapod on their demonstration railroad. I have a good idea of what sounds a real steam engine makes. SoundTraxx got them right but left out the important "cylinder cocks sound" an engine makes when starting with the cocks open to release any condensation (water) from the cylinders.

Again, welcome aboard.

Paul S

Hello!

This is a Hungarian narrow gauge locomotive, it's name is C-50. The scale is 0e. What is your opinion about this engine?

Thank You.

Thank you for the welcome!

I've been to Union before...nice museum. I was fortunate to have been there on a day when a Eliot Ness/Al Capone themed tv show was filming an episode with the decapod.

From checking out the Tsunamis online, I suspect the primary adjustment I'll have to make is to set the generator volume to 0 since I model a period prior to turbo generators. I suppose Sountraxx couldn't decide what to do with the cylinder cocks. Since they're only needed when a locomotive has been sitting for a while, they probably ought not to have them automatic...yet they really need to be there (I grew up around the NKP 765...so I know what you mean!).

I can understand the liking of the Ks...my first exposure to them was riding behind the 464 in Flint...then later seeing the K-37 at Golden...and finally the pilgrimage to Durango and Mecca (I mean Chama). I actually found Orbisonia to be better than Chama, but that's like comparing a fine Bordeaux and a fine Napa...and the line out of Chama is longer and has mountains.

My layout has, 27" curves My mogul has no problem negotiating such tight curves, and they don't look bad with 27' freight cars...although my passenger car is another story. It is all hand laid code 100 with kapler ties. I have three hand laid turnouts...1 stub, 1 3-way stub, and 1 wye turnout. I made the horrendous mistake of laying a third of the mainline...including 2 of the turnouts...directly on foam board...while the rest is on cork roadbed. My plans are for this to be a portable layout...and my future permanent layout will be hand laid code 70 with rough cut ties. Code 100 is correct for the EBT, I believe Code 83 is correct for the D&RGW, and code 70 is correct for the South Park in 1884. That layout will have wide enough curves for K-37s, C&Sng 2-10-2s, and such (I have a fascination with the proposed C&S 2-10-2 and D&RGW 2-8-8-2). That layout will cover the line from Gunnison to St. Elmo via Alpine Tunnel.

When I was 5 years old, my parents took me to Colorado on Amtrak. When then made the trip to visit Midland territory, the Cripple Creek district, Pikes Peak...and on to Alpine Tunnel (where supposedly my parents' marriage ended...although 20yrs later there are no signs of this end )...and finally the CRRM. I vividly remember the palisades, woodstock, the collapsed portal, Mac Poor's marker, and the ruined buildings.

So far my control consists of an MRC Tech 4 and the plain MRC Command 2000. I'll get a Linz, NCE, or Digitrax unit in a few years.

Michael

I've been trying to post this all day. Heavy rain seems to be affecting my internet connection...

I love the 0e Krisztian! I'm interested in getting one of Fleischmann's 0e magic trains...as I've been to the Zillertalbahn in Austria.

At Hungary there was a locomotive, it looks like a Magic train locomotive. It was produced in Germany.

I would like to build this engine on Magic train base. I need a new cab, and I want make the drive for more sophisticated.

"cage" we would refer to that as "body", "superstructure", or "cab". The word "cab" specifically refers to the place were the crew is.

Looks intriguing! You might also want to consider Bachmann's On30 industrial diesel...I think it has the outside frame counterweights and rods. On30 is essentially the same as 0e.

EDIT: here's a picture from Bachmann's website...

Good morning all you narrow minded types. Here is a tip I have found that maybe of use to some of you. When working with ME ON30 flex track, I found if you use a HO track cleaning bar to burnish the under side to the ends of the rails on the weathered track, it enhances continuity and aids in soldering your joints.
Al

I discovered an unusual problem with my new MMI K-27 today. It's had an intermittent short, especially when backing up. Troubleshooting with my meter, I discovered the trailing truck wheelset was reversed. The live/insulated wheels were opposite to the drivers. There was enough lubrication in the journals, plus no weight on the truck, to cause a continuous short. It got thru PSC's quality control this way. It was easy enough to fix. I removed the trailing truck assembly and unsoldered one journal, reversed the wheelset, and resoldered the journal back into position. After verifying my fix with a meter, I installed the truck back into the engine. It runs fine now. This work was a good opportunity to paint the wheels, axles and driver counterweights so it looks more like the prototype. I'd post some pictures but I don't know how on this site (I'm on a Mac).

Paul S

Good call on painting the wheels/counterweights. So many models can benefit from it.

It seems many factory painted models skip painting the wheels. IMO, this really detracts from a model's overall appearance. I confess I haven't corrected this deficiency on most of my brass - too lazy I guess. Old "arm-chair" habits are hard to break especially when you model solo. I need to make a concerted effort to develop better hobby work habits.

Would anyone know what brand of paint and color the MMI green boiler locomotives are painted with? I need to touch up a couple small details on my K-27. I'm calling PSC tomorrow - maybe they'll give me the answer.

Paul S

Hello everyone,
Seems things have been a little quiet on this thread lately, so I am going to give you and update about my ON30 layout, sorry no pics.

Layout area is about 7X18 feet with operation from a pit inside a loop of 3R. The story line is a small narrow gauge operating in a confined area and transferring goods with the Santa Fe (the 3R) I have about 6 or 7 feet of track to lay to complete the main loop, which I hope to finish Monday the 31st. As far as I know I will be the first ON30 layout operating in this part of Missouri, so I am pretty isolated on that part. A couple of other ON30 layouts are under construction, but they will be much larger than mine.

I know some of you are working on your own layout and we would like to know how you are coming along. Allan Miller has been pretty quiet and I am looking forward to see what kind of corruption he is going to drop on us.

Write when you can.

Al

I was successful in building my first, test, On3 curved turnout (36"/40" radii). I drew it out on a piece of scrap matte board with a beam compass and bent the rails with a Fast Tracks rail bending tool. I also used the FT #12 point/frog filing jig. It worked fine and produced good points and a long, sharp frog. I soldered the rails on a few pc ties to hold it all together for testing. I cut gaps to insulate the frog with a jewelers saw. This first attempt took several hours to build since I'd not built one before. I was pleased how it came out but I discovered I needed a better track gauge than the NMRA sheet metal one I was using. I've ordered two pair of Simpson track gauges.

I was curious how a MMI K-27 would run around the 36" radius - no problem but it doesn't look very good - too tight of a curve for appearance IMO. Mechanically, the K-27 could run through it forward and backward easily with no difficulty. I think I'll use a 40" radius minimum and 48" where it will fit. I'm expecting a K-36 in June and I'm curious to see how it handles this curvature since its wheelbase is a bit longer than a K-27.

I also needed a display track for my mantel and this provided a good opportunity to try hand-laying some track - another new experience. My ME spikes are not pointed which was no problem penetrating the ties but balked at the piece of birch plywood I was using as a roadbed. After bending a few spikes, I drilled pilot holes with a #72 bit and this helped. I really missed not having proper track gauges on this project. I got the rails into gauge but it was a lot more work than it needed to be. After the rails were painted and the track ballasted, it looked good for a first attempt. It was fun but I need lots more experience on the "track gang" before my trackwork will be acceptable to the "brass hats."

Paul S

Paul, I highly recommend cork roadbed. I use Kappler ties with cork roadbed and ME spikes. Great combination.

Ok, I'll write a longer post than I could last night...about my progress...

my 8'x 15' loop didn't seem to get along with my unweighted Grandt Line cars...two C&S stock cars and a Model Masterpieces C&S flat car which uses a Grandt Line under frame. Yet, my 700 series drop bottom gondola hasn't had a problem. It seemed that NSWL wheelsets did dramatically improve the performance, but the cars still struggled to stay on the track.

So, I experimented with adding some lead to them. Guess what? The wheel sets popped out of the trucks! It isn't the weight or wheels causing the trouble...it's the steel under frames! That's why the D&RGW gondola doesn't have a problem! A 27"R curve is, apparently the maximum that they can handle. I'm using 27"R. Intriguingly...they don't derail on the 2/3rds of my layout that was laid on cork...just the 1/3rd that is directly on the foam board...at the front. I don't know if this is purely because of the way I laid out the curve...or if the foam board is less rigid than the cork...and allowing the rail to not follow the curve as closely...causing tighter radii at various places.

I don't feel like doing anything with that for now...because my mogul has no problem towing my scratch build 300 series coal car and my scratch built waycar without them derailing.

I finally got around to installing a coupler on that 300 series coal car (gondola)...it still needs paint and a brake wheel. It's one of two variations the UP's Omaha shops built for the South Park...with a second car, of the more common 400 series well on its way completion. I also have a UP built 800 series 27' boxcar that has trucks...but no couplers and needs some hardware built (the brake rigging is complete). My waycar recently received some attention as I junked my resin castings for the running gear and fabricated new out of strip styrene, sheet styrene, and NBWs...it needs couplers too. I've already installed couplers on my 1878 Barney & Smith 26' boxcar...but I haven't gotten around to installing its trucks (they're of my 1st generation of scratch built trucks...I'm looking into tools to start making the 3rd generation out of brass)...it's otherwise complete...minus weathering. I haven't touched my stock car for a while...or my flat car...but I'm probably going to resume work on my Colorado Central lime car...that or a CC 24' coal car or a 26' excursion car. I haven't touched my passenger car for a couple weeks. I need to build a few more brake cylinders and brake levers for these new parts.

I sat down a couple days ago and made some rough drawings of an EBT 1st generation coal hopper...using a picture in a book, measurements in the roster, and a drawing of the Colorado Central's similar cars (23.5'x6' vs. 24'x7'...slightly different panels). I also came close to making a drawing of the 1870's PRR depot in Mt. Union...the north end of the EBT.

I keep hoping and praying that MMI decides to come out with a Mason Bogie. They are by far the most difficult locomotives to scratch build...possibly the most difficult to ever roam the rails of colorado (due to their valve gear and bogie-ness). The drivers were not rigid like the forneys that they are confused with...they swiveled on a joint above the #2 driver...just like a car's trucks...and unlike other Walschetes (sp?) valve gear engines...the parts moved in a very different manner with a pivot point attached to the bell bracket. Little surprise that one of the real ones lasted only 7yrs...and the road switched to conventional 2-6-0s and 2-8-0s. I enjoy the Cs & Ks...but I'll conserve my money to instead use on South Park stuff. For me, the $400 would be better spent on that lathe which can help me build my own locomotives.

Recently, I've been looking into coreless motors for the 2-8-0 that I will be starting. I'm trying to decide on the balance between motor size and weight. I've seen where some people have found the MMI Ks to be underpowered...and upgraded them with Faulhaber coreless motors...but not what size they were. Grandt Line porters and PSC shays come with the 2020...but it supposedly isn't well suited for a 2-8-0 (believe me...my Grandt Line porter lines like a dream with its 2020...shame its rear axle is out of gauge). I want to get the smallest motor that won't result in the 2-8-0 being underpowered...and fill the boiler and frame with as much weight as possible (I've even looked into tungsten...but it's too pricey). This is a touch silly, for 4 of these were regularly required to get 30 car trains up to Alpine Tunnel.

The next challenging project for me will probably be making the brake gear parts for my passenger car...and forming the bull nose roof end profiles. I don't expect to have all the key 2-8-0 parts until after the passenger car is in service...and the next passenger car has been started (either Barney & Smith coach #3, Pullman BMX #4, or Hallack Brothers combine #1).

Michael

Michael,

Are you scratch-building your passenger cars or are they kits? PSC brass passenger cars would be wonderful but they're too expensive for me at the moment. I've looked at La Belle but I have low confidence about shaping the roof ends - perhaps the difficulty is more imagined than reality. Anybody here have experience with them?

Paul S

quote:

Originally posted by PRSearls:
Are you scratch-building your passenger cars or are they kits?

Scratch building. There's a good chance that the only commercial castings on the current car will be the trucks, couplers, and endbeam/rails.

I've thought about the La Bella kits for quite a while...but always end up deciding that $110 is too much for a passenger car. I came close to bidding on a Cimarron Pullman that was on ebay...but decided against it. I'd recommend taking a shot at shaping the ends if I was you. Produce negative profiles of the roof to guide you through the process...and it shouldn't be too difficult. I've learned the hard way too many times about not doing things free hand...use jigs and templates!

Michael

Paul,

I've buit several La Belle kits; shaping the ends can be an adventure, but it's not one to fear, well, maybe not too much,

I used to be cautious about these and rough carve and then rasp, file, and sand to the contour templates that their kits supply. Now I just hit them them with the belt sander to get close, then it's rasp & sand. If you go too far - wood filler! No big deal; fill and sand some more.

When finished seal with sanding sealer and sand working to at least 600 grit.

Should come out pretty decent; could though go the tissue/canvas roof technique vs paint as well.

Darned Slow Pulling and Pretty Rough Riding.
Have you looked at the Bachmann ON30 cars. When I compared the rolling stock to the pics in "The Rainbow Route" it is very close on the measurements. You may wish to try putting some standerd ON3 trucks under on of them just to see how they perform. I use Micro Engineering Code 100 weather flex track and the large radius Peco turnouts. The only time I have had a problem with a derailment, it was caused by my fingers. I have laid my track on partical board as well as homasote.
Al

Al,
I've checked into that...as I once was very excited about them. The most usable cars (for On3) are the EBT rock cars,the boxcars, and the flat cars. I have one of the boxcars and one of the flat cars...but I've decided that they aren't close enough to convert. (they're rather toyish when sitting along side my Grandt Line & scratch built cars) The boxcars are decent stand ins for the CC boxcars, and the flat cars are cousins of both the DSP&P and CC central cars...but their construction is far too heavy...and the Bachmann cars won't look right to me when sitting alongside the correct cars.
I wish Bachmann would come out with more useful cars to the prototype modeler...30' ACF boxcars, 30' ACF gondolas, a D&RGW/F&CC/RGS short caboose, a Jackson & Sharp D&RG boxcar, and a prototypical length passenger car. I presume, that they've determined that the market for 3' gauge in On30 is willing to make sufficient compromise in track and turn radius that the shorty cars will sell the best...and other companies like FMW seem to support this. Regardless, at $15-20 a piece...RTR, that Bachmann On30 stuff is impressive.
I suspect that most of my derailment problems with the Grandt Line SUF cars are due to the soft roadbed under that part of the layout...and fixing it with a slightly wider radius or firmer roadbed will alleviate those headaches. I don't have any problem with them derailing at my hand laid 3-way turnout or my other hand laid stub switch on cork. (I've used Code 100 rail...only because I received around 100' of it for free...my future layout will be all code 70...which is correct for the DSP&P...and potentially a maintenance issue for heavier On3 locomotives).

On a related note to your turnouts, my wife is 10wks pregnant with the first kid...so I'm also doing a little Fn3 planning (for the Christmas tree) and for the Thomas the Tank Engine layout. I've been thinking about trying to talk the wifey into extra hobby dollars for Peco Streamline turnouts to use on my rendition of the Ffarquay branch (Rev Awdrey's original 4x6 layout). Previously I've always preferred Atlas custom line...in HO...but they don't seem to get along with the British OO stuff I picked up in England last year...and that English train will see service alongside Thomas. I've always heard that Peco's stuff is just fabulous. Of course, I prefer hand laying track...so I might just do that anyways. (I try to avoid being a multi-scaler, but I've previously mixed up with N, HO, HOn3, Hi-rail O, On30, G and Fn3). I hope for the Fn3, which will be based on the Colorado Central, will eventually become a garden railway version of the Colorado Central...complete with my own creation...Fn2...which will be the Gilpin Gold Tram in 1:20.3 scale using Proto:48 wheels & track standards (which scales to something like 23.9" gauge...well within the tolerances of a real road)

Michael

EDIT: I put them to the scale last night...since I haven't done that for a while...they are 25' long. The CC had 23' & 26' flat cars...and 23' & 24' boxcars...the DSP&P shortest were 26' cars. The widths are right for the DSP&P 26' cars...but the straight sills coupled with the width and length are ill suited to represent either railroads cars. The Bachmann also have way too many safety features...with the boxcar having both side wood and end grab iron ladders...and the flat cars having stirrup steps. Some of the details on the Bachmann cars are magnificent...and others look bad. The wood grain...especially on the gondola sides...are not close to scale. I love the vacuum brakes...although there are no brake levers (easy enough to fix with some 0.020"x 0.060" styrene and brass wire). I think that overall, the trucks are the weakest part of the cars. And if I was to re-equip the cars with commercial trucks...add the correct couplers...and the decals...then they'd be running around $45-$50 a piece...which is in the same price range of the vastly superior kits from Grandt, San Juan, Trout Creek, and Cimmaron. That's why I decided not to purchase any more of the Bachmann cars...unless they're spot on like the On3 manufacturers. I do plan on picking up some of the EBT hoppers and kit bashing the trucks into On3 trucks (they are the only commercially offered version of the correct trucks for those cars. While I can build archbar (fabricated) trucks, I don't have the correct tools to build Vulcan or other cast trucks). I'll also, probably, build a couple of the original Pressed Steel Car company 2-bays that came equipped with arch bar trucks...and cut down some standard gauge trucks accompany a few scratch built 3-bays. (the 3-bays had longer trucks than the 1930 rock cars that Bachmann offers...BTS offers the correct trucks at $45 a piece !?!?...and the cars at $120 each...which are way outside of my price range)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DSP&P Fan,

Michael,

I appreciated your critique of the Bachmann cars; you have probably saved me some money. I had considered using a few until I get my kit building skills up to speed. I have a pair of San Juan kits on the shelf. I still might get some hoppers and put new On3 trucks under them. These will be owned by a fictitious coal company in SW Colorado so I should have some "modeling license" here. I think either the Grandt Line 3073 Andrews, 3078 Bettendorf or San Juan 212 Bettendorf trucks would be appropriate for a late 1930s period. What is your opinion of this idea?

Paul S

Paul,
I'll just give a little run down of EBT hoppers...as I think that'll help...
The EBT had 6 separate hopper designs. The first 3 were wood (the third were purchased second hand)...the next three were steel. The first 4 designs entered with fabricated trucks (arch bar). The last two designs were built with cast Vulcan trucks. The first two designs were eliminated during the teens, and the 3rd and 4th designs were retrofitted with Vulcan trucks at some point. The 5th design was the common 3-bay design that we think of when we hear EBT hopper. The 6th design, 1930, is what Bachmann's models are based off of...they were also equipped with shorter trucks than the rest of the cars.

I'd recommend the cheap and accurate approach first...take a razor saw to the trucks and make them wider...then install some NWSL wheels. If you are unhappy with that, I'd then check out Bettendorf trucks (which were quite modern then). The EBT was the most modern NG railroad...followed by the C&S...and in some respects, the EBT was the most modern railroad in the country by 1920...with full trains of all steel cars being pulled by modern 2-8-2s while wooden boxcars and 2-8-0s were the norm elsewhere.

On a related note, have you tried out Grandt Line's kits? They are comparable in quality to P-B-L and San Juan, and might also make from an interesting experience to build...to help sharpen skills. Their C&S steel underframe stock car is also appropriate for the RGS of the 1940s...and not too difficult. It would make a nice warmup for one of their D&RGW drop bottom gondolas (and san juan doesn't offer them)...the only type of Rio Grande rolling stock that I really love. They also make a hardware kit for C&S SUF reefers...which includes plans...and these reefers were later used on both the RGS and the WP&Y.

Last night I pushed forward with my CC 23' flat car...the frame is complete (w/bolsters and needlebeams). I need to know start drilling holes and making hardware. My 26' DSP&P flat car has been getting some attention...making hardware...and I will probably be finishing both flat cars around the same time.

Michael

Paul...I am sending you a pix of my trackwork and if you want any help ,maybe I can offer some advice.

Keep an eye on your E mails....

Michael,

Thanks for your information about the EBT hoppers. I don't have much kit building experience since I've lived most of my hobby life in the R-T-R world of HO. Could you describe how you widen the Bachmann bolster after you've sawed the truck apart? After widening, it looks like the Bachmann truck uses the NWSL 26" 37803-4 On3 wheelset with the 1.085" axle. Are the Bachmann draft boxes also removed? I'm using Kadee 803 couplers.

Thanks.

Paul S

I'd use spacers cut from styrene...and I'm addicted to NWSL wheels. I've not actually done this conversion to be certain...but it should be fine.

As for the couplers, I'm looking to phase out my 803s. They're fine couplers, but my new 19th century cars are all receiving L&Ps from Coronado, and I plan to switch to San Juan couplers for my 20th century cars. The boxes on the Bachmann's are kind of funky...it appears that they're designed for easy conversion to the proper On3 height...although I've never messed with it. Further, #5s and #803s will function together without much of a problem (speaking from experience)...so you might not need to remove the #5 boxes if you just use #5 couplers. My dad's old cars all have #5s and mine have #803s.

Michael

Edit: clarified about removing the #5 boxes...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DSP&P Fan,

Thanks, Michael. That's good information.

Another question. I ran across Crystal River Products website last night . They have a great looking D&RGW 50,000 gallon water tower - I need one of these. Has anyone had experience building this kit? I'm attracted to the wooden built tanks rather those cast in resin. I know the master had to be a wooden model. Their other structures look very good too.

Paul S

Puma Valley Branch, D&RGW, San Juan Mountains Colorado, July 1938

I've never built any of their kits, maybe some one else here has.

I don't like working with resin. I messed around, quite a bit, with resin casting last year and have a bad taste still in my mouth over it. Of course, commercial kits are 1000x better than what I could achieve in small batches without a spin caster or pressure pot. It isn't as strong as styrene or wood, and imo, harder to work with. I also dislike that while it's similar to plastic...you have to use super glue or stinky epoxy rather than solvent based plastic cement.

The master could very easily have been built out of either wood or styrene. Some of us feel that styrene is far more realistic for modeling wood than real wood in all scales O and smaller. The reason is that you can add grain that is closer to scale than what wood has. Cimarron Works's masters were made out of styrene and they look great.

The octagonal roof tank appears to be a fairly easy scratch build. You just need a cylinder of the right diameter...wrap it in a scribed sheet or board by board...take thin brass flat wire to create the bands, a strip wood/styrene base...styrene foundation...shingle or scribed siding roof with strips added over the joints...and then you just need to find a spout.

That'll run you $110-$120 less than the kit...but the trade off is in time. Another way to think about it is hobby time/enjoyment per $.

Michael

while Hawaii did away with its sugar trains long ago, several countries (like Australia and Indonesia and others) still use narrow gauge. Here's a cool link to Phillipines

http://www.farrail.net/pages/trip-reports-engl/philippinean-steam-2007.html

if you find this type of stuff pretty neat, realize that the narrow gauge bug has probably bit you

David,

Thanks for the link to the interesting sugar train info. I spent 17 months based out of Clark AB, P.I. in 1965-66 (13 months in Vietnam). I had forgotten how beautiful and lush the Philippines are - the people are beautiful too. I didn't see any steam trains while I was in either country but Uncle Sam had me occupied loading ordinance on B-57s.

Paul S

quote:

Originally posted by AL CLAIR:
...SUBJECT TO BEING SHOT. (HOMELAND SECURITY, THIS IS JUST A JOKE.)

A more fearful threat might be to subject malfactors to two or more airport security screenings...

Those screenings must be pretty rough. As I have not traveled by air for 20 years (I stopped drinking), I have not been involved in the screening process.
Al

Hi Paul,

I was there in 70s and mostly recall the beautiful people as well as a lot of good fruits and seafoods

Here's a link I wish to share with you that caused me to slober. It needs no translation; just enjoy photos

http://www.feldbahn-modellbau.ch/

David,
Thanks for the web sites, really great stuff. Similar to the Mexican narrow gauge railroads in looks and maintainence.
Question, where is the beagle?
Al

Thank you, David, for that link. Those photos are terrific examples of prototype weathering. I'll save them for future reference.

Paul S

I last travelled by air two years ago. I was in a wheelchair at the time. I was wearing sandals on my bare feet. The guy who checked me through had me remove my sandals while he checked the soles of my bare feet! I guess he was afraid that my toes might explode. He then closely examined my cane....probably looking for a sword concealed inside. He finished by going over the wheelchair with a fine toothed comb even though there was a large sign over it proclaiming that the wheelchair was the property of the airport. I guess I could have saved all that trouble if I looked like a moon worshipper. Ah-hh but its a brave new world in which we live. Thank God I was born early enough to have seen and remember steam in daily use and old style streetcars etc. Odd-d

Al,

Eating pistachios

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_OSF6qRWXA

David,
Thank you for the heads up. The dog on a log scenery looks quite similar to the walking trail we have in our Nature Center located next to our Lake Springfield. A nice way to relax after working on the garden railroad.
Thanks,
Al

Paul mentions painting drivers and over the years I have painted quite a number.

I always keep the wheels moving using a transformer at it's lowest level. This gives good coverage in most areas. Finally stop the motion and adjust painting the counter=weights.....

Hello to all of you,
Thirteen months after I layed my first section of Micro Engineering code 100 weathered flex track, I layed the last one tonight. And the trains ran, with no derailments by equipment fault. I have layed about 90 feet of track and used Peco wide radius turnouts. Now, maybe I can start doing some scenery before long. And who knows, I may learn how to post pictures some day.
Al

Congratulations Al! I look forward to seeing your pictures!

Michael

Congratulations, Al. Did you drive a tiny golden spike (or rail joiner) to celebrate? It's always a thrill to run that first train over the completed track; I've only done that myself a couple times and the last one was so long ago I've almost forgotten what it feels like.

Paul S

Here's the link to the mother of all narrow gauge lines of the world, mostly industrial:

http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/back_issues.htm

Please post the overall dimensions of the Bachmann On30 trolley...if anyone has one of those. Thanks!

Paul S,
Drive a gold spike, have you checked the price of gold lately? No, I just gave thanks and hoped the Almighty would let me get down from the top of the layout with all my tools in one trip. I am quite pleased with the way the ON30 looks with the 3R. And as you remember my thread of a few weeks ago about going 2R or staying in 3R, I elected the 3R. Now, the next step is a DCC system. In fact, if any of you readers are using DCC, whose system are you using and why did you chose it. Just remember KISSHO (keep it simple stupid, he's old).
David V.
Thanks for the website. Many a hot summer evening will be spent looking it over.
Al