Some of you may remember the questions I had concerning a repaint project to turn a Lionel S-2 switcher into the one in this family picture:





Well, I have another question

I chose Lionel's 28533 Seaboard S-2 switcher from 2003 for the repaint because the handrails are already painted in PC yellow, and it has the least amount of paint to strip off because most of it is already plain black. However, the trucks on that switcher were the wrong type. I assumed the trucks on the other S-2 switchers were this type, but I took a closer look and found that the correct trucks exist on other Lionel S-2 switchers. Compare the trucks on these two pictures:





The trucks on the SP switcher are correct, but the Seaboard switcher is the one I want to use because it already has PC style paint on the rails. Is there any way to obtain the SP trucks and use them on the Seaboard? Or should I just buy the SP and forfeit the already painted handrails? What would be easiest?

UPDATE: Thanks to the advice of the forum members, I found out the Seaboard model is the wrong type altogether. I'll be going with the SP 100%

This message has been edited. Last edited by: NickyBigBoy,

In my opinion it would be far easier to paint the handrails. Tracking down the correct trucks and doing the swap seems much more difficult. I have an NP version of that switcher and mine has some funky way the motor drives the trucks. If it's the same on these, I don't think it'd be that easy of a job.

Can always swap the shells and go from there. I also think it would be a PITA to get both and swap the trucks plus there is the possibility of compatibility issues.

quote:

Originally posted by NickyBigBoy:
Some of you may remember the questions I had concerning a repaint project to turn a Lionel S-2 switcher into the one in this family picture:





Well, I have another question

I chose Lionel's 28533 Seaboard S-2 switcher from 2003 for the repaint because the handrails are already painted in PC yellow, and it has the least amount of paint to strip off because most of it is already plain black. However, the trucks on that switcher were the wrong type. I assumed the trucks on the other S-2 switchers were this type, but I took a closer look and found that the correct trucks exist on other Lionel S-2 switchers. Compare the trucks on these two pictures:





The trucks on the SP switcher are correct, but the Seaboard switcher is the one I want to use because it already has PC style paint on the rails. Is there any way to obtain the SP trucks and use them on the Seaboard? Or should I just buy the SP and forfeit the already painted handrails? What would be easiest?

FYI, PC 9850 is an S-2. Lionel's P/N 6-28533 is an S-4. S-1s and S-2s have what are known as Blunt trucks, while S-3s and S-4s have AAR type A trucks. I'd get the SP, myself.

Get the SP. It has the trucks you want. I can almost bet you won't be able to swap trucks for the ones you want on the seaboard. Plus theres less paint to remove on the SP unit as far as the tiger stripes go.

The handrails can easily be repainted. I've painted a bunch of sets of handrails. Not too hard. Be patient.

Or leave the handrails black and say it's a later model PC switcher when they stopped caring completely and everything became filthy with dirt and grease.

quote:

Originally posted by techie:
FYI, PC 9850 is an S-2. Lionel's P/N 6-28533 is an S-4. S-1s and S-2s have what are known as Blunt trucks, while S-3s and S-4s have AAR type A trucks. I'd get the SP, myself.

Crap, now I'll definitley have to go with the SP. I never even noticed it had "S-4" in the title. I already knew PC 9850 was an S-2, just never noticed I had the wrong type model picked out. Thanks for catching my flub-up

quote:

Originally posted by bazonkers:
Or leave the handrails black and say it's a later model PC switcher when they stopped caring completely and everything became filthy with dirt and grease.

The picture I found on the internet showed the handrails in yellow. That was an up to date picture, so I imagine when my grandfather used it the rails were yellow. It's a nice touch, so I think I'll paint them.

quote:

Originally posted by NickyBigBoy:

quote:

Originally posted by techie:
FYI, PC 9850 is an S-2. Lionel's P/N 6-28533 is an S-4. S-1s and S-2s have what are known as Blunt trucks, while S-3s and S-4s have AAR type A trucks. I'd get the SP, myself.

Crap, I'll have to go with the SP instead. I never even noticed it had "S-4" in the title. I knew PC 9850 was an S-2, just never noticed I had the wrong one picked out. Thanks for catching my flub-up

The only difference between an S-2 and an S-4 is the trucks. The same holds true for the S-1 and S-3. The difference between the S-1/3 and S-2/4 is that the S-1/3 has a square radiator and a 660 HP oil engine while the S-2/4 has 1,000 HP and a longer rectangular radiator.

Nicky,

I read a good tip somewhere that is applicable to your project. Dip a toothpick in yellow paint and roll it on the handrails to paint them. I'm not sure which magazine I read that. Might have been OGR or somewhere else. I think it was Model Railroader actually. A small brush might work well too.

That's a good idea. I have to get the model first though; I can't find it anywhere

Yep, You will have to go with the SP unit or any Alco Switcher with the Blunt style trucks to make the s2 switcher. The trucks are hard to find, even in O scale brass.

Nicky,

If you don't mind paying MSRP give Grzyboski's Train Store a call. I swear they have every Lionel item ever made in stock. They sell a lot too so I have no idea how they keep so many older items in stock.

http://www.grzyboskitrains.com/

quote:

Originally posted by bazonkers:
Nicky,

If you don't mind paying MSRP give Grzyboski's Train Store a call. I swear they have every Lionel item ever made in stock. They sell a lot too so I have no idea how they keep so many older items in stock.

http://www.grzyboskitrains.com/

Grzyboski's is one of my favorite dealers. You're right, they have almost everything! Great deals too, I've never payed MSRP

It depends on what you are looking for. They've been able to dig up some rather obscure Lionel items but they made me pay. I don't shop there enough to work any deals.

I recently saw they had Lionel's 17319 PFE reefer 6-Pack from 2002. This 6-Pack and the other 6-Pack (11851) were made for Lionel's 1999 Big Boy, and both are very hard to find. Took me a few years to locate them both on Ebay; I got the 11851 but lost the 17319 at the last second. Haven't seen it since. Grzyboski's has it for Greenberg guide price, so I guess that's fair. I'll hold out a little longer for one on Ebay though...

If you are unable to purchase the yellow handrails, try painting with Testors R/C paints. They provide a durable flexible finish. Check their website for more info.

I would recommend a gray primer before applying the yellow and use a good quality brush.

Matt

I've used Testors paint on some of Lionel's MPC plastic kits, so I'll probably use it again here.

When I'm done with this project, my intent was to make it a work train. Does anyone have some suggestions for what type and road name cars I should use? I definitely like Lionel's Conrail crane and boom car, would those be correct?

Depends. Are you looking to make a work train or a wreck train? Typically, that crane would be found on a wreck crane sent out to clean up the carnage after a derailment. If you are looking to create a work train, something like this would be a better crane to use:



MTH makes a Conrail version but their site is so broken right now I can't even pull it up. What year are you targeting for your Penn Central work train? They would have used both NYC and PRR marked cars closer to 1968 and Conrail stuff after 1976. If you used that PC switcher after 1976 with Conrail stuff, I'd weather it so it looked pretty dirty.

That crane above, a work caboose, and a gondola or two with ties and rails would make a great work train. Do a search for work trains on OGR, I think there was a great thread in the last 6 months.

My parents tell me my grandfather worked for PC from mid-60s to mid-70s. So that would mean NYC and PRR stuff?

Penn Central was created in 1968 when the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central Railroad merged. It was a complete disaster and a few years later, Penn Central was bankrupt. Conrail was formed by the government in 1976 mainly because the largest eastern railroad system (PRR & NYC, now PC) was about to collapse. They added other roads into Conrail that were failing as well.

The earliest your grandfather could have worked for PC was 1968. He might have worked for NYC or PRR earlier than that.

Based on what you said, I'd look for PC, NYC and PRR cars for your work train. PC stuff would look newer, NYC and PRR might look a little more weathered depending how close you get to the mid 70s if weathering is a concern.

That said, without doing a whole lot of research as I'm supposed to be writing a paper at the moment, not surfing train stuff () I think that much of the PC MOW cars were yellow as they came from PRR. I'd go with this crane if I were building a PC work train. If you aren't opposed to the idea, paint on a PC patch onto it.

Thanks for the dates. Yep, my parents said he worked for PC from the get-go, and kept on working through Conrail and into Amtrack until he finally retired in the 1980s. The picture is undated, but because it is black and white I'm guessing it was before 1976. NYC and PRR cars it is

I just found a great website online about PC work equipment; don't know how I missed it.

I like this caboose from the Lionel PRR ballast train set but I don't think they ever sold it separately. No idea if it is prototypical. Maybe the MTH offerings will work for you.

Lionel 29814 was a separate sale item. Looks good

Oops, I forgot about New Haven. They were also included in the PC merger. In fact, the switcher you pictured is an ex-New Haven switcher, #0600 according to this site:

http://www.thedieselshop.us/PennCentral.HTML

quote:

Originally posted by NickyBigBoy:
I just found a great website online about PC work equipment; don't know how I missed it.

This one?

http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/work.html

Yep. If it had teeth it would have bit me

One last thing for you.

"The New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad was added to the merger at the insistence of the Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC) on January 1, 1969."

Since that switcher is a former New Haven, the photo had to be taken sometime in 1969 or later.

Here is a picture and some info on 9851, same series of switcher. It's a different angle so it might help your modeling project.

"PC S2 9851, ex-NH 0601, is seen at Croxton, NJ. The New Haven's S2's were delivered with flatter roofs compared with standard units in order to clear the overhead catenary of the railroad's New York-New Haven electrified main line. Photo by Arnold Morscher."

Thanks for all your help bazonkers (and everyone else). I've practicaly got enough info now that I could pitch it to Lionel.....

Okay, after some more photo research this is the work train I've schemed up:



Many work trains seemed to have a common arrangement of a dump car, then a crane car, then another dump car. So that's the first part. I've also noticed from photos that PC commonly used PS-2 hoppers to transport diesel sand, so that's the second part of the consist. All the photos I saw had a normal caboose as opposed to a work caboose, so I decided on a bay window type. So, does this look like a work train that may have roamed the PC rails?

Wait... Penn Central had work trains?!?!?!?!?



Sorry I couldn't resist.

Nicholas, K-Line made a crane and crane tender car with NYC lettering in that same green you show here. If you want to research for it I will look up the numbers. I have the set.
.....
Dennis

I think I've seen those before, I'll look them up on legacy K-line trains. However, my research (and others' suggestions) have shown that M.O.W. trains on the PC were mostly Pennsylvania. I think to be more prototypical, I would have to use that road name equipment. Thank you for the suggestion though

quote:

Originally posted by NickyBigBoy:
So, does this look like a work train that may have roamed the PC rails?

Well, it looks too clean and in too good of shape for the PC. All joking aside, I like it. I think it makes a great train.

I would contact Industrialmodels if I was even thinking about build a work train. Look at the pics in this auction, best looking crane I've ever seen.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...em&item=180405366483

Yes, I've seen several of his custom weathered items on eBay. Amazing work.

Do they make any models with the over-sized toy train couplers? Their work is amazing but it wouldn't be compatible with my couplers.

His auctions usually say available in 2 rail or 3 rail, I guess you would need to ask the seller.

Do you know that MTh did an s-2 in Penn Central

LOL nice. The best part is that MTH didn't make a non-graffiti version. That speaks volumes.

quote:

Originally posted by bluelinec4:
Do you know that MTh did an s-2 in Penn Central

I know all about that one. Three reasons why I can't use it:

1. Its operating system clashes with Legacy.

2. It's graffiti. PC 9850 never fell victim to graffiti...strangely...

3. It's got S-4 style trucks. See techie's posts for an explanation.

Nicky,

In case you need more ideas, I found this:

In 2004, Atlas made a 4-bay Penn Central MOW hopper (item # 6780)



http://www.atlaso.com/oprrhopper.htm

And some more real PC work trains:



Above - "A Penn Central wire train with ex-PRR equipment. Locomotive 7838 heads up a tool & riding car, followed by a tower car (normally there are two), and a cable reel gondola. The train was waiting to inspect and make catenary repairs at a wreck site in Middletown, Pennsylvania, on July 28, 1973."





Above - "A Penn Central work train waiting to move in and work on the track at a wreck site in Pennsauken, New Jersey, on December 2, 1969. All the equipment in this train is still lettered for the predecessor railroads. From left to right: PRR locomotive 7964, PRR carrier car 491100 with crane, P&LE hopper 3548, two PRR gondolas (the second one loaded with track panels), two PRR ballast hoppers, and PRR caboose 477367. Photo by John C. La Rue, Jr.."

I saw those pics too bazonkers. Good stuff

I definitely like the Atlas hopper, but once again the scale couplers wouldn't be compatible with toy train couplers. Do they offer it with toy-size couplers?

Yes, Atlas makes all their cars either 3-rail or 2-rail. The 3-rail versions have the standard godzilla fist of death coupler found on Lionel engines. I have many Atlas cars and they work fine with Lionel/MTH/etc.

quote:

Originally posted by bazonkers:
The 3-rail versions have the standard godzilla fist of death coupler found on Lionel engines...

ROFL!!!

quote:

Originally posted by bluelinec4:
Do you know that MTh did an s-2 in Penn Central

It looks more like they did an S-4 in Penn Central.

Nicky,

Here is a non-catalog photo of that PRR crane I suggested. Trainz.com has one for $55. Not sure if they are still available anywhere else as they were made in 2000 I think.

http://www.trainz.com/p-113749...crane-car-mtbox.aspx

Thanks bazonkers; I always get all my stuff off of Ebay. While I try to get the switcher, I'll have to watch the prices of some of these and get an idea of what to spend.

You might be able to find one for $45 to $50 plus shipping if you wait long enough which isn't much less than the $55 plus shipping trainz.com is selling it for.

How about I buy it for $55 and you buy it from me on eBay for $65. Deal?

Haha, no thanks. I have an odd little process on Ebay: If I don't need the item right away, I wait for at least three of them to go through. I will also factor in a figure from a price guide and then find the average of the prices, that way I have a ballpark figure of what to spend. Sounds overly-complicated, but I have actually saved some money that way.