quote:

Joe, I don't mean to hijack the thread, but what were all of the Warner Bros pieces and which one was made offshore?

Hi Jim, There were a few items in which the figures were made in China but the cars were asembled here in Chesterfield. The one lone piece made entirely in China dates back to 1996..
That would be the #6-18434 Porky & Petunia hand car.
Here is the list. it includes everything except the WB setthat was sold in WB stores.
This is from my computer..
You'll need to put names to the numbers
If you include the large scale handcar and the WB set, there are 19 pieces
Joe
6-16274
6-16737
6-16980
6-16754
6-16752
6-16755
6-16590
6-16738
6-16739
6-16662
6-19286
6-26116* WB store exclusive
6-26298* WB store exclusive
6-18416
6-18421
6-18434* made in China
6-19255* Ambush Shack
8-87208* large scale handcar

This message has been edited. Last edited by: JC642,

Regarding the pre-Kughn Mexican production, I have a B&O General set with a sticker on the set box indicating the DC power pack was made in Taiwan, the plastic pieces and track were made in Mexico, and all other components were U.S. made. Also, I gather some 8378 Wabash FM's were U.S. made in 1983, and Mexican made the next year.

Someone posted that a set of 022 switches from a late 60's set stated made in Hong Kong.

quote:

Originally posted by RoyD:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike W.:
Didn't someone mention a while back that the O22 switches, crossovers, and operating tracks were made in China even before 1969?

China, before 1969? It would have been as likely that Lionel trains were made in the Soviet Union. If you mean Taiwan or Hong Kong, I don't think they had the chops to make such stuff, at the time. I suspect all postwar track was U.S. made.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike W.:
Someone posted that a set of 022 switches from a late 60's set stated made in Hong Kong.

Thank you- that's interesting. Did they indicate what style component boxes(if any,) they came in? From what I have read, O gauge production was cancelled after 1966, except for some 6464 boxcars made in 1969.

I really don't know much more about it. Hopefully someone can chime in. O gauge is still shown in some late 60's catalogs.

When in the 70's did O gauge components begin production again? And can anyone confirm where they were produced...not counting plain track which was USA until 2001.

quote:

Originally posted by RoyD:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike W.:
Someone posted that a set of 022 switches from a late 60's set stated made in Hong Kong.

Thank you- that's interesting. Did they indicate what style component boxes(if any,) they came in? From what I have read, O gauge production was cancelled after 1966, except for some 6464 boxcars made in 1969.

quote:

I really don't know much more about it. Hopefully someone can chime in. O gauge is still shown in some late 60's catalogs

Anything is possible but I find it hard to believe Lionel subcontracted switch production offshore during those last PW years given it took 13 additional years (1981) before O gauge track, switches & remote track were again recataloged in the modern era.
Joe

Using the terms "Last Lionel Train Set..." in this posting implies U.S.A. production is gone forever. Who knows what the future will be? If you study the history of Lionel, prewar, postwar and modern era, its manufacturing locations have been constantly evolving. The history of Lionel is still playing out--perhaps there is hope that manufacturing will return to the U.S.A.

Speaking of Lionel history, there are some postings in this thread that can be clarified:

1) In doing research for my book, Inside The Lionel Trains Fun Factory, I had many discussions with Bob Stein, a Lionel financial Vice President in the 1960's (and Lenny Dean's boss in 1969). Mr. Stein on several occasions emphasized, as he recalled, that motors and reversing units for the 2029 loco were made in Japan in 1968, but the locomotive was assembled in the U.S. He stated no products were fully assembled overseas. He did not recall any components being made in Hong Kong or China in the 1960's.

2) Mr. Stein and his small crew assembled products in Hillside in 1969 from existing parts, since there was no manufacturing capability at the plant at that time. Thus, there was no true "manufacturing" or "fabrication" at Lionel in 1969.

3) There is no evidence to suggest motors, gears, etc were manufactured in Italy by La Precisa, Mario Caruso's company. Caruso established La Precisa to make tools and dies, because he was especially fond of his native Italian skilled craftsmen. Many of these crafstmen he brought to the U.S.; others preferred to remain in Italy. The tools and dies were shipped from Italy to Irvington and some of the La Precisa people even went to Irvington to assist in further development and production. Evidence points to the fact Lionel products in the 1920's and 1930's, when La Precisa was affiliated with Lionel, were all made in the U.S.A.

Bob Osterhoff
www.trainpaper.com

quote:

Using the terms "Last Lionel Train Set..." in this posting implies U.S.A. production is gone forever. Who knows what the future will be? If you study the history of Lionel, prewar, postwar and modern era, its manufacturing locations have been constantly evolving. The history of Lionel is still playing out--perhaps there is hope that manufacturing will return to the U.S.A.

I hope you're right. This country could use all the help it could get but for a variety of solid reasons I don't see Lionel as the manufacturer happening again, ever..
The best that can be hoped for is with a government intervention (handouts) maybe toss in free health benefits, some assembly could return to be subcontracted here in the states.
Joe

Manufacturing could return to the US, but it would take some fundamental things for that to happen:

1)If China and other developing countries let their currencies float, or due to issues like the cost of shipping becoming expensive (that already was happening during the last oil price spike) it could become economically advantageous to build here.

2)If labor costs even out, it could happen.

3)If manufacturers are willing to invest in modern production techniques, Instead of using old techniques with cheap labor, it is possible to manufacture here and do so cost effectively. Not hopeful on that one, Harvard Business School and the greed merchants like Mcimsey cheer on dirt cheap labor as the way to make bosses rich....

Things do change. Also, if people in the US revolt, and start insisting that 'globalization' works for them as well as for the CEO's and well off investors, it could happen as well..not holding my breath, since greed trumps many things.

...and if our country puts an end to useless gov regulation for private companies and frivolous lawsuits

quote:

Originally posted by bigkid:
Manufacturing could return to the US, but it would take some fundamental things for that to happen:

I read somewhere...that some loco tooling was sent to Japan in the late 60's...and it was an issue for General Mills to hunt it down and bring it to MI.

I am really enjoying the Fun Factory book btw!!!

quote:

Originally posted by funfactory:
Mr. Stein on several occasions emphasized, as he recalled, that motors and reversing units for the 2029 loco were made in Japan in 1968, but the locomotive was assembled in the U.S. He stated no products were fully assembled overseas. He did not recall any components being made in Hong Kong or China in the 1960's.

Bob Osterhoff
www.trainpaper.com

All:

I had a chance to review some delivery notes I made back in 2001. Here's the best that I can piece together from those notes and memory:

1) The last set packed-out in the US using predominately US materials was the 6-31919 T&P Passenger Set as noted earlier in the thread. This set shipped in June 2001, and as Joe mentioned above, was likely the last major item to leave the US plant, save for a few miscellaneous pack-outs later in the year. Note that the locomotive and tender were sourced (complete) from Korea, and the transformer from China. Everything else (cars, track, packaging) is from the US.

2) If you want to disqualify the 6-31919 because of the Korean locomotive and tender, you'd have to go to the 6-31913 Pennsylvania Flyer and the 6-31914 New York Central Flyer. The US factory was producing these in the first and MAYBE the second quarters before the production was transitioned to China. For variation collectors, there are both US and China versions of these sets, with some minor detail differences. Note on the US versions that the die-cast metal locomotive cabs were made in Macau and the transformers in China. Everything else was made in Chesterfield.

3) The last major locomotive production in the US was, without a doubt, the 6-28074 Nickel Plate Berkshire, being shipped in May 2001 (not February as mentioned above). There was some assembly of the 6-38015 773 "Top-10 Dealer Special" Hudson and the 6-28062 Gold Hudson from parts around the same time (in the case of the 28062) or slightly later (38015). The 38015 models were made from parts and partially-assembled Century Club Hudsons, while the 28062 Gold Hudsons were assembled using remade parts that were rejected at the vendor level (mainly die-casting and plating issues). I do not believe that these were customer returns as mentioned earlier, although I suppose it was remotely possible.

4) As I suspected, the 6-17271 Rock and 6-17272 Railbox boxcars were close, but not quite the last rolling stock as they shipped in March 2001. And as I mentioned earlier, they were painted and decorated in China. (I know this because of first-hand knowledge.) Joe, you're right in that they were indeed assembled and packed-out in Chesterfield - in addition to being designed and molded - but the bodies were shipped to China for painting and decoration before being returned to the states. This process of shipping some molded bodies to the Orient for P&D started in late 2000, and was done to help alleviate a bottleneck in the Deco Department. Variation collectors take note: There are a few Rock boxcars out there that were painted blue on top of a yellow Railbox body - apparently the Orient ran short of blue bodies but had a few extra yellow ones to complete the run.

5) So what are the last pieces of rolling stock? I'm not 100% sure (production schedules are likely long gone), but here are the last items that shipped in April 2001 (the last month for US rolling stock) that were predominantly produced in the US:
6-19886 Seaboard Boxcar with RailSounds
6-19887 Southern Pacific Boxcar with RailSounds
6-19889 Pennsylvania Bay Window Caboose with CrewTalk
6-19890 Santa Fe Bay Window Caboose with CrewTalk
6-36089 Frisco Flat with plane
*6-36090 Flatcar with Pepsi Truck (truck made in China)
6-36091 Maersk Flatcar with Tractors (tractors made in Macau)
6-36092 Maersk Flatcar with Trailer Frames (frames made in Macau)
6-36093 Soo Line Auto Carrier
*6-36206 Railway Express Agency Boxcar
6-36935 Maersk Maxi-Stack Car (containers made in Macau)
6-39210 PWC 6530 Fire Fighting Car
6-39217 Century Club II Boxcar (painted and decorated in China, molded and assembled in US)

Note the two items (36090 and 36206) that I asterisked above. If you want to be specific, I believe these two pieces to be the last CATALOGED and produced rolling stock as they were introduced in the 2001 Volume 1 catalog. The others came from 2000 Volume 2, and were announced in July 2000. And as a final note, the 6-36206 was the "most US" for having been COMPLETELY made in the US, including the plastic trucks.

If I recall correctly, the majority of Rolling Stock product production wrapped-up in April, while production of the Nickel Plate Berkshire, T&P Passenger Set, Track and component parts to be shipped to the Orient for assembly there (such as Pullmor motors for the first Orient-issued pieces) continued for another few months.

6) Joe, you mentioned that track production continued "well into 2002." I don't remember that being the case. Please elaborate.

7) Ed H mentioned the 21970 Southern Pacific RS-3 set. Funny story on this one. When the set was made in the US in 2000, the project manager specified the wrong tank car body (6315 single dome instead of the correct 6415 three dome) for the set. After several thousand bodies were molded, the mistake was caught and the bodies rejected, scrapped and remade. (We didn't win too many friends that day.) When the tooling was specified (and shipped) for the 2001 Orient production, the project manager still hadn't updated the paperwork, and as a result only the single dome body was shipped while the three dome tooling was scheduled on a later boat. Hence the 2001 China production with the single dome body.

8) Ed, the 6-26565 Employee Appreciation Caboose was made, I THINK, in March as the layoffs started in early April.

9) Joe is right in that there was some "overlap" of US and Orient production. To ensure an orderly transition, duplicate 6464-style boxcar tooling was created in China, and this was used to produce the first pieces in China that would normally have been made in the US. These first pieces, shipped in May 2001, include:
6-29900 I Love Wisconsin Boxcar
6-29901 I Love Kentucky Boxcar
6-29902 I Love Iowa Boxcar
6-29903 I Love Missouri Boxcar
6-52221 TCA Norfolk Southern Boxcar
6-52232 NLOE Long Island Boxcar

When the REAL 6464 tooling was freed-up in the US, it was sent to the Orient. As such, the 6464 Series X and the 6464 Archive Boxcar 3-pack shipped in June and July 2001 respectively. The new 2001 tooling as well as BOTH original 6464 boxcar tools continue in use to this day.

10) I see that people are asking about O Gauge track production, but that story will need to wait for another night. But to correct a few things... I've never heard that O Gauge production was subcontracted to the Orient in the 1960's. I don't believe that to be the case. There WAS limited O Gauge track production in the Hillside, New Jersey plant through late 1974. This included straight, curved, 1/2 straight and curved, 90 degree crossovers and PARTS (but no complete units) for 022 Switches sold through the Service Department. Production continued sporadically in Michigan afterwards, before a new "push" for O Gauge started in 1979 with the reissue of the 072 Curve. More regular production and reissues followed. Production of the 022 Switches and things like the 6-5530 Operating Track started to move offshore in 1987 with the production of the reissued 072 switches. Production of 027 switches in the Orient started earlier than that. I'm thinking it was around 1980, but I need to verify that.

No doubt that 2001 was a most interesting time in the history of Lionel, and there are many stories to tell. I've rambled on long enough, but I think that most topics raised earlier in the thread have been covered.

Regards,
Todd Wagner

This message has been edited. Last edited by: PaperTRW,

quote:

Joe, you mentioned that track production continued "well into 2002." I don't remember that being the case. Please elaborate.

Todd, Thanks for the clarifications. Im not sure why I know that or who I heard it from. Seems that info came from a worker familiar at the time with the situation. Like you I have notes somewhere. I'll see if I can find it..
Joe

Todd Wagner posted:

quote:

I've rambled on long enough, but I think that most topics raised earlier in the thread have been covered.

I want to thank Todd for the effort in the research of this information. I suspect you have better things to do with your time these days, so again, thank you for setting the record with regards to the many questions.

Sincerely:

Charlie

quote:

Originally posted by Mike W.:
...and if our country puts an end to useless gov regulation for private companies and frivolous lawsuits

quote:

Originally posted by bigkid:
Manufacturing could return to the US, but it would take some fundamental things for that to happen:

I doubt it has much to do with regulation and rather with having a population of over 1 billion people desperate for jobs. The average manufacturing wage in China is about 2 bucks a day us, which explains why manufacturing is there. The manufacturers can rely on a cheap labor force with little hope for upward price pressure. Manufacturers didn't move their manufacturing there because of lawyers (hate to tell you, but whether a piece is made in China or Duluth, Minnesota, they can be sued) or environmental regulation, it was because they could get factory help at 25c/hour, no benefits, no sick leave, no vacation pay, then at 20/hour in the west......we could totally gut all regulation, kill all the lawyers..and they would still manufacture there. On the other hand, those 2 dollar a day workers can't afford a 500 dollar engine, either....

This is great information. I have really enjoyed reading it.

I figured they had been using new 6464 boxcar tools as you can tell the difference. They reproduced what was the blurred out MPC logo on the end nameplate as simply a random box below the Lionel name. Hence whomever made the new tool didn't realize this blob below the Lionel name should have been removed.

They also made new boxcar tools for the rivetless smooth sided versions.

So the Gold Hudson was not made from fresh parts??? I got mine right after Christmas...and the QC looked perfect.

quote:

Originally posted by PaperTRW:
9) Joe is right in that there was some "overlap" of US and Orient production. To ensure an orderly transition, duplicate 6464-style boxcar tooling was created in China, and this was used to produce the first pieces in China that would normally have been made in the US. These first pieces, shipped in May 2001, include:
6-29900 I Love Wisconsin Boxcar
6-29901 I Love Kentucky Boxcar
6-29902 I Love Iowa Boxcar
6-29903 I Love Missouri Boxcar
6-52221 TCA Norfolk Southern Boxcar
6-52232 NLOE Long Island Boxcar

When the REAL 6464 tooling was freed-up in the US, it was sent to the Orient. As such, the 6464 Series X and the 6464 Archive Boxcar 3-pack shipped in June and July 2001 respectively. The new 2001 tooling as well as BOTH original 6464 boxcar tools continue in use to this day.
Regards,
Todd Wagner

quote:

bigkid wrtites: we could totally gut all regulation, kill all the lawyers..and they would still manufacture there. On the other hand, those 2 dollar a day workers can't afford a 500 dollar engine, either....

Yeah, but w/o lawyers, prices in this country for everything would drop 50% overnight.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark V. Spadaro:

quote:

bigkid wrtites: we could totally gut all regulation, kill all the lawyers..and they would still manufacture there. On the other hand, those 2 dollar a day workers can't afford a 500 dollar engine, either....

Yeah, but w/o lawyers, prices in this country for everything would drop 50% overnight.

I think it would help a great deal for a number of reasons, the litiginous nature of our society is not a good thing, though I don't know whether to blame the lawyers or the people who hire them,or the juries dumb enough to side with them......in any event, when faced with a huge labor pool desperate for jobs, employers will routinely go that route, even if in the end it may not be the best of things.....it is a dream to many of them, because it means paying slave wages, no benefits, no protections and for every employee,100 who would only gladly replace them....

My post intended nothing against lawyers. I have a law degree though I went on to study accounting. Its more an issue with certain parts of society and people that can't look out for themselves to an extent. If I drive in front of a train then its my fault. Same would be true if I broke into my neighbor's pool and drowned. Or assuming the inherent risk that comes with taking certain medications. Law suits related to those issues put drug product lines and producers out of business or raise costs beyond most consumer's means.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike W.:
...and if our country puts an end to useless gov regulation for private companies and frivolous lawsuits

In an effort to get this topic back on track...

1) Joe, no problem on the track thing. I was in China in early January 2002, which was my first trip there. The people I was with commented that this was the first time that they had seen the former US track-making equipment in operation. To be honest, I don't have day-to-day knowledge of what was going on in the plant after the summer of 2001, when my daily visits stopped because we moved the deco department over to headquarters. There were still crews around to clean things up, ship tooling, re-work things that failed incoming quality inspections and occasionally do pack-outs of sets. (As an example, the set boxes containing the cars of the 6-21787 Blue Comet Set were received from China and the locomotives from Korea. In Chesterfield, the spacers in the set box were removed and the locomotives added before the boxes were sealed and shipped to dealers. This occurred in November 2001.) Track making was definitely the last production in the plant, and I think it wrapped-up by September, but can't be 100% certain, so let me know if your notes can add anything more. (By the way Joe, do we know each other?)

2) Charlie, these were great years in the earlier part of my Lionel career, and this was a nice trip down memory lane for me. Like many things in life, some of these events I remember like they happened yesterday, and others are getting really fuzzy. Overall though, I remember the time fondly -- I learned a lot, worked with some great people and have few regrets (and absolutely no doubts) about what we were doing. I'm glad to help when I can, and still have my own interests in the hobby. (For the record, my "thing" is the MPC years 1970-1985, particularly 70-73.)

3) Michael, good eyes. That's exactly what happened with the boxcar tooling. I remember when the Project Manager showed me the first shots and I had to laugh about the "box" below the word Lionel on the ends. She didn't know why it was there on the original tooling, so it was simply copied to the new. Note that this new tooling has the end detailing recessed, unlike the vintage 6464 tooling. This was a result of the new parts "sinking" in this area, and it was decided to recess it (resulting in a thinner wall thickness) so that it wouldn't sink. As you know, this new tool has the standard array of side slides (inserts) to produce riveted or plain-sided bodies as well as ends to accept a metal or plastic frame.

Also, the 6-28062 Gold Hudson was indeed made with fresh parts. 95% of the production run was shipped in late 2000, but there were some component parts that were rejected when they were received from the outside vendors. Because of very long lead times, plus the fact that there was more than one vendor involved (Vendor A needs to die-cast and Vendor B needs to clean and plate), it wasn't until almost 6 months later that these replaced parts were assembled as completed locomotives and shipped to dealers that were shorted on the original run. At no time were refurbished parts used. Sorry if my first explanation wasn't too clear, but I wanted to clear-up the fact that this second run in May 2001 was NOT made from customer returns. By the way, seeing this piece being produced was very cool. To the best of my knowledge, it's the only time that all the line workers wore white gloves to avoid fingerprints on the plated bodies.

I'm going to avoid the discussion on offshore manufacturing as I see some things differently. But feel free to drop me a note (address in my profile) if there's anything more about product from this time period that you'd like to know.

Regards,
Todd

quote:

I'm going to avoid the discussion on offshore manufacturing as I see some things differently. But feel free to drop me a note (address in my profile) if there's anything more about product from this time period that you'd like to know.

Regards,
Todd

Todd, again..thanks for your imput. I can still remember how difficult it was to to gather information during those last months of production.
Your data on the Gold Hudsons is interesting and very much appreaciated. I default to you for its accuracy as what information I had was the best available at the time..
Those last few reconstructed Gold Hudsons were additions to the original run & without a catalog number, Got me thinking those Hudsons should default to the earlier run of
#6-38015 Hudsons that did have a unique catalog number as the last Hudson built in America?
I found my notes on the Railbox & RI boxcars. I had them listed as the last standard O boxcars not the last pieces of RS as I had noted earlier....I did have the two TMCC cabeese as possiibly the last separate sale pieces out the door.
I do not have or have yet to find notes on the last dates for track assembly..
It seems that info may have been lost when my older computer crashed its hard drive some years back.
You are right, a lot needs to be told. Using E-mails to learn & gather info may be the best way to do it.
From what I've seen over the years, folks in these parts are not very interested in furthering along this rather small but growing segment of train collecting...
Joe

Has anything significant been published since TM did the book on Lionel from 1970 to 1980?
Even though my interest lies primarily in Prewar / Postwar Lionel, I found the aforementioned book to be very interesting, and would find a book on the following years to be interesting too.
It's a pity that nobody seems to be working on a book while the information in still fresh in people's minds.
Didn't Todd already state that some of his recollections are getting fuzzy?

quote:

Originally posted by bigkid:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike W.:
...and if our country puts an end to useless gov regulation for private companies and frivolous lawsuits

quote:

Originally posted by bigkid:
Manufacturing could return to the US, but it would take some fundamental things for that to happen:

I doubt it has much to do with regulation and rather with having a population of over 1 billion people desperate for jobs. The average manufacturing wage in China is about 2 bucks a day us, which explains why manufacturing is there. The manufacturers can rely on a cheap labor force with little hope for upward price pressure. Manufacturers didn't move their manufacturing there because of lawyers (hate to tell you, but whether a piece is made in China or Duluth, Minnesota, they can be sued) or environmental regulation, it was because they could get factory help at 25c/hour, no benefits, no sick leave, no vacation pay, then at 20/hour in the west......we could totally gut all regulation, kill all the lawyers..and they would still manufacture there. On the other hand, those 2 dollar a day workers can't afford a 500 dollar engine, either....

Those who continue to advocate deregulation want the American middle class reduced to third world status. I'd like to see a Constitutional amendment ensuring and protecting the headcount and scope of the US regulatory establishment. The current economic depression shows that we can't trust the market totally and regulators are needed to keep businessmen from selling the country out.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike W.:
My post intended nothing against lawyers. I have a law degree though I went on to study accounting. Its more an issue with certain parts of society and people that can't look out for themselves to an extent. If I drive in front of a train then its my fault. Same would be true if I broke into my neighbor's pool and drowned. Or assuming the inherent risk that comes with taking certain medications. Law suits related to those issues put drug product lines and producers out of business or raise costs beyond most consumer's means.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike W.:
...and if our country puts an end to useless gov regulation for private companies and frivolous lawsuits

Bean counter, argument DISMISSED.

quote:

Originally posted by funfactory:
...motors and reversing units for the 2029 loco were made in Japan in 1968, but the locomotive was assembled in the U.S. He stated no products were fully assembled overseas...

Thank you, for this info. Are these 2029 motors and e-units the first Lionel offshore production for the U.S. market?

quote:

Originally posted by funfactory:
Using the terms "Last Lionel Train Set..." in this posting implies U.S.A. production is gone forever. Who knows what the future will be? If you study the history of Lionel, prewar, postwar and modern era, its manufacturing locations have been constantly evolving. The history of Lionel is still playing out--perhaps there is hope that manufacturing will return to the U.S.A.

Speaking of Lionel history, there are some postings in this thread that can be clarified:

1) In doing research for my book, Inside The Lionel Trains Fun Factory, I had many discussions with Bob Stein, a Lionel financial Vice President in the 1960's (and Lenny Dean's boss in 1969). Mr. Stein on several occasions emphasized, as he recalled, that motors and reversing units for the 2029 loco were made in Japan in 1968, but the locomotive was assembled in the U.S. He stated no products were fully assembled overseas. He did not recall any components being made in Hong Kong or China in the 1960's.

2) Mr. Stein and his small crew assembled products in Hillside in 1969 from existing parts, since there was no manufacturing capability at the plant at that time. Thus, there was no true "manufacturing" or "fabrication" at Lionel in 1969.

3) There is no evidence to suggest motors, gears, etc were manufactured in Italy by La Precisa, Mario Caruso's company. Caruso established La Precisa to make tools and dies, because he was especially fond of his native Italian skilled craftsmen. Many of these crafstmen he brought to the U.S.; others preferred to remain in Italy. The tools and dies were shipped from Italy to Irvington and some of the La Precisa people even went to Irvington to assist in further development and production. Evidence points to the fact Lionel products in the 1920's and 1930's, when La Precisa was affiliated with Lionel, were all made in the U.S.A.

Bob Osterhoff
www.trainpaper.com

I have heard that later 773 motors came from Hong Kong.

When I took a bus tour of the Lionel factory in Michigan with one of the national club tours originating in Greand Rapids in 2000, they were manufacturing or at least assembling and testing the CCI Hudsons. Can anyone else give any information on this (these) tours and what we saw in the factory? Dick

quote:

The current economic depression shows that we can't trust the market totally and regulators are needed to keep businessmen from selling the country out.

Someone needs to explain to me the logic behind the word "protectionist" when it applies to those complaining about American manufacturers who dump American workers, set up shop offshore and begin to import and market their wares back to those same folks now standing in unemployment lines.???
Only in America...
Joe

quote:

Has anything significant been published since TM did the book on Lionel from 1970 to 1980?

TM's "100th Anniversary Edition" guide covering the years 1970-2000 still offers the most comprehensive information to date on American made Modern era Lionel..
Joe

quote:

Originally posted by RoyD:

quote:

Originally posted by funfactory:
...motors and reversing units for the 2029 loco were made in Japan in 1968, but the locomotive was assembled in the U.S. He stated no products were fully assembled overseas...

Thank you, for this info. Are these 2029 motors and e-units the first Lionel offshore production for the U.S. market?

No additional off shore production was mentioned by Lionel employees with whom I conducted research of the era nor have I found any documented evidence other than the 2029 motors and e-units. I prefer to rely on facts rather than opinion. In addition, I have seen no documentation that 773 motors came from Hong Kong, at least in the postwar era. I would be interested in knowing of a reliable documented source of this information.

Bob Osterhoff
www.trainpaper.com

quote:

Originally posted by funfactory:

No additional off shore production was mentioned by Lionel employees with whom I conducted research of the era nor have I found any documented evidence other than the 2029 motors and e-units...

Thanks again, Bob. Can you, or anyone here, state what the first item of Mexican production was, back in the early 80's?

quote:

When I took a bus tour of the Lionel factory in Michigan with one of the national club tours originating in Greand Rapids in 2000, they were manufacturing or at least assembling and testing the CCI Hudsons. Can anyone else give any information on this (these) tours and what we saw in the factory? Dick

I was on these tours also, I remember seeing the Archive Series Southern Pacific (black widow) F3s being tested as well as Southern F3s being decorated. Maybe Im wrong, but I also recall seeing quite a few Pensylvania T1 locomotives, does anyone know if they were made here or overseas ? I do also recall seeing a few Century Club 773 locos. One item that does stand out in my memory, is a large plexigas case that had many very rare and unusual items in like employee boxcars, the ultra rare Ambassdor series (gold and silver series, not the common "bronze" series) cars and possibly paint/deco samples. as well as other prototypes etc).

quote:

Maybe Im wrong, but I also recall seeing quite a few Pensylvania T1 locomotives, does anyone know if they were made here or overseas ?

I believe assembled here from offshore built parts.
Joe