quote:

Originally posted by RoyD:

You can also give the cars more weight by replacing the die-cast wheelsets with sintered iron sets. Of course, all these conversions are totally reversible(as if the Milwaukee cars will ever be worth anything!)...

I'm not sure if you mean postwar bar-end or AAR wheelsets, but there is a little known trick to use on these Milwaukee cars if you are changing out wheels.

The original wheels on these are very lightweight & hollow castings... what you want to do is change them to LTI & later style solid fast-angle wheelsets that I believe are sintered iron pressed on to the same style needlepoint axles. Even the very basic gondolas & hoppers had these heavier wheels during this time, and before. The Polar Express cars have the solid wheels and they track much better and are noticeably heavier.

The difference in weight is appreciable, and you really don't want to give up the fast-angle advantage if at all possible.

quote:

Does anyone have any of that packing material shaped like houses and tunnels mentioned in the 1971 catalog? I've never seen any in person or for sale.

Yes, I have the 1971 uncataloged Ford-Autolite Allegheny set, it has the foam packaging shaped like houses. Forget exactly how the set was sold originally, I know auto parts stores could obtain the sets. The special car in the set was the Ford-Autolite boxcar, as it was uncataloged in 1971. Then in 1972 the same boxcar appears in the regular Lionel catalog.

quote:

Originally posted by ed h:

quote:

Does anyone have any of that packing material shaped like houses and tunnels mentioned in the 1971 catalog? I've never seen any in person or for sale.

Yes, I have the 1971 uncataloged Ford-Autolite Allegheny set, it has the foam packaging shaped like houses. Forget exactly how the set was sold originally, I know auto parts stores could obtain the sets. The special car in the set was the Ford-Autolite boxcar, as it was uncataloged in 1971. Then in 1972 the same boxcar appears in the regular Lionel catalog.

I have the same set... but I busted up the houses early on. This was my first MPC set, the 8142 loco smoked well compared to Lionel Corp. liquid smokers and the S-O-S was quite advanced for the day! It all still runs great and looks like new, the engine is a great puller and is VERY fast.

quote:

Originally posted by RoyD:
...You can also give the cars more weight by replacing the die-cast wheelsets with sintered iron sets...

quote:

Originally posted by ADCX Rob:
I'm not sure if you mean postwar bar-end or AAR wheelsets...

No, I meant(as you elaborated) replace the original wheelsets with sintered iron fast-angle wheelsets(with needlepoint bearings.)

Speaking of SOS, did you know MARX beat Lionel to electronic sound by a year. Marx introduced electronic sound to the O gauge world in 1970.

Piggybacking on Chuck Sartor's post, I have a Marx gray 2-4-2 with a slope back tender lettered for Santa Fe. The tender is equipped with exhaust sound effects which are fairly convincing for their time. I believe Marx called its system "Sound of Power."

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Sartor:
...did you know MARX beat Lionel to electronic sound by a year?

Depends on how you define electronic. If electric and electronic are synonomous, then Lionel was the very first with their buzzing chugger in the 1930s.

The 260E is equipped with that early "chugger" - pretty d@mn good for its time.

Bob

SOS and the Marx Sound of Power sure beat the later, cheaper Mighty Sound of Tumbling Plastic Pellets.

I've always regarded the 260E as the ultimate O gauge prewar TINPLATE locomotive. This, of course, excludes Lionels' new generation of scale oriented equipment such as the PRR B6, NYC J Class Hudson, CMSP&P Hiawatha and the UP M-10000.

Bob

The Madison Hardware interlude several posts ago was a nice trip down memory lane. Going to Madison Hardware was a real family affair for us. My grandfather started during the early years, followed by my father and then me AND.....my first two solo purchases at Madison Hardware were MPC items: the Penn Central auto rack and the 7600 series New Jersey car for the Bicentennial set.

Bob

thanks for all the info about the Millwuakee set i think i
m just gonna have to snag that when i can.
i tend to run alot of eastern road names but something about that set always made me want it
thanks again
Dave

quote:

Originally posted by JC642:
Instead of linking to that offbeat forum why not post photos of your own favorite MPC train here?
Pictures speak louder then words.
Joe

Comparing threads, I wonder which one is the more offbeat?

At least with MPC, you don't have to worry about that 2 or 4 chuffs per revolution question!

Dominic:

DITTO to that!

If all goes as planned, I should have my NEW "Milwaukee Special" set shortly after the current York ends.

Another forum member has very generously provided me with the add-on "City of Minneapolis" car, AKA the "coupon" car.

Tinplate:

Also why I do WBB for completely new....the stuff just runs, like great PW and MPC.

I would like a link to the photos too...email in profile. Thanks!

Art:

Please be sure to share your impressions of your set when you receive it.

Bob

One of the nice things about the era is all that room under the hood. Want to add a better sound system? Go for it!

Jon

quote:

Robert S. Butler Posted October 07, 2009 09:13 PM

The Madison Hardware Tender for the 1964-1966 #773 Hudson

"Metal Tender Fully Detailed - 11 1/8" Long. 1600 model rivet heads - exactly as in prototype. Can be used with the following locomotives #700, #763, #773. Specify Loco and type coupler when ordering $49.50 - with whistle $10.00 extra.

Madison Hardware ad - pp.17 November 1967 Model Railroader


....and the #773 in 1966 was a $50.00 item.

They were also willing to put original 700e spoked drivers on your 773 for an additional $20.00.

They say if you hang around a RR yard long enough, you can see just about everything.
I found two real old MPC CN GP-7's parked but still plugging away.
Joe

I love the MPC era and General Mills trains. I recently purchased a 8754 New Haven Rectifier on the bay, like new in original box for under seventy five dollars. I am now looking for the Conrail Rectifier. Also made in USA except for the Mexico production which I also purchase.

quote:

Originally posted by ADCX Rob:

quote:

Originally posted by ed h:

quote:

Does anyone have any of that packing material shaped like houses and tunnels mentioned in the 1971 catalog? I've never seen any in person or for sale.

Yes, I have the 1971 uncataloged Ford-Autolite Allegheny set, it has the foam packaging shaped like houses. Forget exactly how the set was sold originally, I know auto parts stores could obtain the sets. The special car in the set was the Ford-Autolite boxcar, as it was uncataloged in 1971. Then in 1972 the same boxcar appears in the regular Lionel catalog.

I have the same set... but I busted up the houses early on. This was my first MPC set, the 8142 loco smoked well compared to Lionel Corp. liquid smokers and the S-O-S was quite advanced for the day! It all still runs great and looks like new, the engine is a great puller and is VERY fast.

I was taking some pictues of my small MPC collection last night and came accross this billboard insert. It looks like they were manufactured by a company called MYCO.



Any one have any photos of these interesting little buildings?

James

Found this interesting photo on an auction site. This is a single lot.


www.liveauctioneers.com/item/3016945

I dragged this old timer out of the barn for a updated shot.
Hardly believe it has been almost 40 years since this jewel got me restarted in O guage..
Joe

quote:

Originally posted by NickyBigBoy:
I don't get any of those analogies

Don't fret. Emily Deschanel doesn't get a lot of them either.

I know how to say "gimmee gimmee gimmee Bill Gray's", though. Make mine a cheeseburger plate w/ mac & home fries, extra onions & extra sauce.

quote:

I suppose that I found this written in a licensed Lionel book is an opinion also. Seriously, this debate is over. Why are you having so much trouble accepting the results?

LOL, what book is that?
We need the title and author.
Could it be the book we were recently discussing that was fraught with errors?
Does the book cite it's source(s)?

quote:

Another forum member just posted a picture that again suggests the 6910 was made for the GP-9. Any more denial of those findings is simply ignorant.

Not a very good argument. An aucton house puts the set together and that makes it a legitimate (official) Lionel offering.

Here's a teaser for you: There is legitimate documentation indicating that the caboose was intended to go with the Geep. See if you can find it.

Perhaps Lionel didn't intend for people to run freight with their hudson. The 1984 catlog shows a five car set of smooth sided aluminum passender cars on the same page. Maybe they thought folks would buy that.
(But they showed the four NYC Standard "O" cars too)

One last secret: The trains belong to individuals who are allowed to do anything they want with them. Why an owner could even break up a set.
I have an old magazine which contains an article on how to butcher a Madison car into a motoried MU. Imagine that!

quote:

Those cars belonged to the NYC AA from the year before. They were only rehashed for the 783, but the freight cars were new.

Thank's for pointing that out.
I think the 1983 catalog makes it pretty clear that Lionel thought folks would match the hudson with the passenger cars too. According to the catalog copy:

quote:

In the early 1900's the New York Centeral came to stand for the ultimate in luxurious and reilable passenger travel. The "Twentieth Century Limited" provided 65 years of outstandng service between New York and Chicago from June 15,1902 until December 2, 1967

In the late forties the line converted to diesel power and their trains were pulled by big Alcos's or triple GM-EMD F3's. These handsome Lionel F3's and smooth sided aluminum passenger cars are authentic "O" gauge replicas from this heyday of New York Central passenger service".

So, while both the F3's and passenger cars were open stock, Lionel did recommend putting them together.
However, Lionel must have realized that some folks might want to recreate the Twentieth Century Limited as it was before the conversion to diesel, so they matched them up in the 1984 catalog. (My opinion, of course)

Like its New York Central prototype, the 783 is a passenger engine on my railroad. It is effective pulling my consist of five postwar aluminum 60 foot cars. I will occasionally mix in a few of the MPC painted NYC aluminum cars to replicate the Central's propensity to run mismatched consists. A head end car or two completes the look.

Bob

Sometimes, I'll go to HTOS layout with some engines and cars. Just thrown together. Then somebody will ask: "What set is that?"

Example: I will put the 9863 REA car as part of the head end for the BROADWAY cars. Not part of that "set", but good looking.

My favorite MPC model was the 8100 (PW 746 repro) purchased in 1981 from Madison Hardware for $400. It will even run on O27 track. Been in closet for a while but after reading this thread will put it on my layout again. It always performed flawlessly.

In some ways, I consider the 8100 Norfolk & Western J the pinnacle of MPC production. It is a smooth, powerful runner and features substantial cosmetic improvements when compared to its postwar predecessor. The Tuscan and gold accents of the 8100 are a very close match for the prototype. In addition, the glossy black finish very closely replicates the appearance of the real J when clean. The inclusion of the protoypically correct engine number of 611 completed the package. I believe some initial promotional literature pointed to the inclusion of white drive tires which, thank goodness, didn't come to pass. Given the restrictions of three rail O gauge mass production techniques of the time, MPC did its homework and issued a very accurate model.

The 8100 was released during a very special point in Norfolk and Western Class J history. The prototype 611 had been removed from Roanoke and taken to the Southern Railway steam shop in Birmingham where it was rebuilt for its second career as an excursion locomotive. Having purchased the MPC set as soon as it was released, owning it took on special meaning as I chased the 611 on its initial public excursions during Labor Day weekend in 1982. In fact, after the train had arrived at Lamberts Point in Norfolk on the first leg of the trip, there was a gentleman who greeted the train with the 8100 mounted on a display track. While I spoke with him, quite a few people complimented him on the accuracy of his model. That would have made a nice promotional piece for MPC.

Bob

Dominic:

The mixing and matching of equipment is a lot of fun. One of my favorites is the operation of a train with just head end equipment. A good consist is the 2530 baggage car, 6572 REA reefer, 6428 U.S. mail box car, 6464 PRR box car, 6464 New Haven box car and a passenger car to serve as a rider coach. The power can be a G or an EP5. Trains like this were frequent sights between New York and Washington and New York and New Haven. Of course, suitable MPC equipment can be substituted or added as desired.

Bob

JC642:

Thanks for the photos of your IC and CN units. It looks like the CN units are multipled with that safety cab equipped GE unit. Do you run them together?

Bob

Wow what a fantastic thread. In l975, I started my ventures into collecting 3 rail trains. I had amassed a nice collection of post-war Lionel Trains but the hand writing was on the wall. Each engine, car, set, etc of the post-war era was costing me more and more, while MPC was lots cheaper (in more ways than one). I met a new friend in l967 who happened to love Lionel Trains and he had a very pristine collection of post-war. I use to go down to his basement and watch him run his trains, besides sitting in his small office and gaze at some of the rare 6464 boxcars he had collected. So if post-war Lionel had collector items, then MPC might become worth some money. MPC stands for model products corporation which made plastic (shoe box size) model (auto) car kits. General Mills bought Lionel in l969 and the electric trains started coming in 1970. The first catalog was a poster that opened and a stary eyed child could hang it on the bedroom wall. (Also, that catalog of l970 came in magazine form if you searched hard and long enough for it). Now the fun begins. It seems as though General Mills gave Lionel which became part of MPC, CPG, Parker Bros, and Kenner a cautious word--make the trains, but at the cheapest possible price. Well, from l970 thru 1980 Lionel brought out the trains, but quality was not one of the stellar ambitions. The plastic roller bearing trucks from Post War were shot. So in late l971 and early 1972, Lionel brought out the Symmington Wayne Truck. This freight car truck in real prototype life appeared on only 1 freight car in the United States. It appeared on practically every freight car until 1993 when Lionel brought out a beautiful roller bearing truck that had excellent memory plastic. One of the most interesting and strange things during the first 10 years of MPC was all the wacky variations that got out of the plant in Michigan that commanded prices of $50 to $200 dollars. The 9200 series boxcars were a continuation or remake of many of the 6464 boxcars. Only 16 different number cars came out of which 9230 Monon boxcar was the last one. Sad, after 9215, cars that were labeled 9216 to 9229 were not collectors boxcars. What was Lionel thinking of? Talk about variations: Some of these cars came with double metal door guides, double plastic door guides (very scarce to find and they break off easily when put back into the box, and single plastic door guides. Yes things got pitched into dumpsters and also special things were made in the plant and smuggled out. If you can find Ladds earliest MPC guides, he shows the variation in both some of the earliest MPC 9200/9700 series boxcars. By 1980, security got real tight at the Michigan plant and Lionel got down to serious train making.....Post War did not know they were making collectors items, but the same thinking was going on in the Modern Lionel Buyer but this was to be totally proven wrong-especially in the recession ridden world we live in now. To be continued.......the bear

This message has been edited. Last edited by: railbear601,

Bob

I was there also. At the time I was stationed at Ft. Eustis Va. My one grandson likes N.S., so I guess he will inherit my 611 and cars. We took alot of pictures that day. You might be in one.

Bill

Bill:

That was quite a weekend. On Saturday, we followed the train from Roanoke to Norfolk. One of our group of four was a former N&W Fireman so he knew every inch of the railroad and we managed to stay ahead of the special every step of the way. On Sunday, the train returned to Roanoke behind diesels as the 611 couldn't be wyed in Norfolk and had gone on the ground several times while trying. The 611 was towed back to Roanoke as a result. Then on Monday, the 611 successfully powered the train north to Alexandria following an N&W/Southern routing.

We saw literally hundreds of thousands of people along the railroad that weekend. The 611's return to service was the lead story on evey newscast in the state.

Bob

quote:

Does anyone have any of that packing material shaped like houses and tunnels mentioned in the 1971 catalog? I've never seen any in person or for sale

This is probably one of the most enjoyable threads I've followed lately. Anyhow, I couldn't resist unpacking a near mint 1971 Ford Autolite / Allegheny Set to take some photos of the Myco packaging. The sides of the packaging are quite thin and break easily, wonder how many sets of packaging like this have survived almost 40 years ?

Thanks ed h, those are really cool!

James

This topic is getting better every day. I will share a painful story with everyone. I was stationed in Alaska from 1974-79. I had ordered the Blue Comet and five cars from Charles Ro. The day it arrived I was at work and my wife called and said my Comet had come, I had ask her if it looked nice and she said I should come home. (Not Good). I went home and there was my Blue Comet in a transparent garbage bag, in a million pieces. I'am not kidding when I say the only thing that was salavagble was the railing from the observation car. I cannot tell you how angry I was. It gets better. I took the bag to the post office and told the clerk I needed to file a claim for my package. He and I where the only one's in there and he told me that he didn't have time, it was one and a half hours before closing, and besides it wasn't his job. I ask what his job was, and he said he sold stamps. I pointed to the stamp machine on the wall and compared it to him. We had words that I will not print here. I left the post office went home and called the Post Master General for Alaska and told him what happened. He told me to go back to the P.O. When I got there the clerk was on the phone, when he got off the phone we filled out the forms to send it back to Charles Ro. He learned another job real quick. I was lucky the engine wasn't in the package. The paint was bad on the engines and they went back to Lionel for re-paint. I don't remmember, but I think in three weeks I had the engine and cars. It is a beautiful set, I didn't buy any of the additional cars. Going through the pain is why the Blue Comet is my favorite.
That was the first and last package that I ever had a problem with.



Bill

Great pics from this article:

...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dale H,

Thanks for the good will leavingtracks. I just want this whole thing to end. Please, let this be the last post on the matter and let's all let everyone get back to the glory years of MPC.

That special uncataloged IC set in the 3rd picture down is interesting. Too bad he didn't have a close up photo of the side of the engines.

John

If I squint hard enough, I think the side says 8030. Is it a set or a created consist? I think it looks pretty good too.

The train with the two units was a set issued by a division of ITT. If I recall correctly, I believe there were fewer than 50 sets made so it's a very rare item.

Nick:

I saw the note about your mother's health. Best of luck with that and I'll keep you and your family in my prayers.

Bob

Heres proof as my kid would say...I'm a fossel.
A shot of a modern era addition taken around 1974 being added to my old PW layout built in 1968.
Moved twice since and except for track much of what was there sold off & upgraded again and again...
When you're addicted, you never quit..
Joe

My other MPC favorite was the NYC Yardchief set issued about 1985 featuring the 0-4-0 with slope back tender and smoke. In 1955 during the Christmas season I’d watch on Saturday morning the Paul Winchell show with Jerry Mahoney and Knucklehead Smiff - the ventriloquist and his two dummies. Would have the 1955 Lionel catalogue handy as the show was sponsored by Lionel during the holiday season highlighting Lionel‘s newest items each week. The Lionel 0-4-0 was reintroduced that year and to this 9 year old looked like the NPB engine (local beltline RR) that switched cars out of the Norfolk Ford Assembly plant near by. In reality the engines were ex RF&P 0-6-0 switchers with slope back tenders. I begged Santa to give me one but no dice. Fast forward to 1985 and saw in RMC mag that Lionel was to become part of Parker Brothers and it looked like General Mills was going to let Lionel die on the vine - of course Richard Kughn stepped in and saved it. Scrapped together enough money - about $260 new - to buy it. Besides the switcher you got the crane and work caboose - a great set for the money.

Since I was in a picture-taking mood today, I took some pix for the "First Train" thread and this was one of my firsts:




The box even has its original price tag of $149.95. Converted into today's dollars, that would be over $600.00 after PA sales tax is figured in!

I can only imagine what the price would have been had they included track and a transformer.

Andy