Silver Lake:

I'm with you on the Auto-Train. I keep hoping for a scale U36B but so far nothing. Oh well, hope springs eternal.

Regarding the BQ23-7, here's an interesting page I found:

http://www.robl.w1.com/Pix-4/I-780860.htm

Regards,

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by Silver Lake:

...a model of the Seaboard Family Lines U boat with the early really ugly boxy crew cab...

And we wonder why kids would rather hit their heads against a brick wall, rather than play with trains. Maybe we could start a collection to pay for someone to style the next generation of freight power, since American locomotive builders seem intent on creating eyesores fit to star in a horror movie.

Hmmm. Godzilla vs. EMD's Greenest...?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Remember, there wasn't a lot of love shown for the pioneer hood units compared to the elegant cab unit design upon their introduction. Now, first generation locomotives such as the GP7 and ALCo RS series are fondly remembered.

Contemporary power has its share of fans.

Bob

The CN FA/B units were close to what CN was actually running at the time...in O-27 size!

quote:

Originally posted by ADCX Rob:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by breezinup:
...My recollection is that the machinery for making Super O track was no longer available, for one...

The Super O tooling is available, and it works. The rails have been used on the Radioactive waste cars and the 175 re-issue.




I believe that track on the waste cars is just regular O gauge track, not necessarily Super O. I think Lionel used the same outside rails with Super O as with regular O track; just the thin center rail and the ties were different with Super O. I'm pretty sure Lenny Dean or someone said that the Super O fabricating machines were lost or destroyed. Again, we need to get Mike Spanier or Super O Mike to chime in with the straight poop.

quote:

I believe that track on the waste cars is just regular O gauge track, not necessarily Super O. I think Lionel used the same outside rails with Super O as with regular O track; just the thin center rail and the ties were different with Super O. I'm pretty sure Lenny Dean or someone said that the Super O fabricating machines were lost or destroyed. Again, we need to get Mike Spanier or Super O Mike to chime in with the straight poop.

Super "O" rails were unique, not the same as "O" or "027". The most noticeable difference is that the tops of the rails are flat.

I personally have no experience with Super O track. I have heard and read some accounts of the thin center rail slicing into pick up rollers. Is there any truth to these stories?

Thanks in advance,

Bob

quote:

I personally have no experience with Super O track. I have heard and read some accounts of the thin center rail slicing into pick up rollers. Is there any truth to these stories?

Opinions vary.
One of my layouts started out being Super "O". I ran into problems with sliding shoes snagging on some of the Super "O" uncouplers, so I took all of them off the mainline. Then I found that some of my prewar would bump along the track because the flanges were so deep that they hit the ties.
I added an inner loop of good ole' "O" gauge track to run my older stuff.

Some folks love Super "O", and swear by it. I prefer regular "O" gauge. If I was starting over, I'd consider one of the new track systems.

quote:

Originally posted by CNJ 3676:
I have heard and read some accounts of the thin center rail slicing into pick up rollers. Is there any truth to these stories?

I have no experience with Super O myself, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that there were a very few models made with soft metal pickup rollers that, over time, would wear, and the Super O center rail would produce a more pronounced wear pattern (groove) due to its thickness. Other theories have also speculated that the smaller contact area on the rollers caused some kind of electrical-discharge erosion - this is very plausible, as electric-discharge machining (E.D.M.) is a widely-used technique for custom-machining of metals.

Based on testimonials of Super O users that I have read over the years, it seems that the vast majority of pickup rollers made since the Postwar era have had no problems of this type.

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by CNJ 3676:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...
Contemporary power has its share of fans.

Bob

Yep. And there are some who like ugly because it is ugly.

I'm not surprised that modern engines have evolved an end-cab design, since functionality is primary. They just look like they're being designed by engineers with little sense of design. This has been the common pattern throughout the entire history of locomotive design. How many builders are catering to the American freight locomotive market today? EMD, GE, and who else? So their designs, however they're developed, are ubiquitous. I'm suggesting that those of us who have to look at American locomotives raise some money to pay for a designer to help beautify the American trainscape.

I guess this comes up in the context of MPC, as they were like the EMD-GE dominator of the O gauge market, in their time.

Roy

As a fan of the MPC EL-C rectifier despite its dimensional and detail compromises, here is one which I had hoped would be made but never was:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4604cgs.jpg

Bob

Well thanks a lot, guys!!!

I always enjoyed having a few MPC items, but never considered myself a "collector/pursuer of the stuff"! So what do I come across in wandering around the Syracuse Train Fair today but a NYC Empire State Express freight set with the 8600 baby Hudson - mint in the box, as they say.

Never would have given it another glance if not for this thread. But the price was right at less than $200 ... so guess what....

The low price and the fact that it was looked at by a few thousand people before I noticed it late in the day does make you wonder though if there is really a resurgence in demand for MPC.


By the way, I won't be asking whether I should run it or keep it sealed in the box for future $$$.

Jim

good score Jim!
I think i
'd go after that as well for that price. that way i have 2 of the NYC hudsons.
Dave

Jim,

That's a great set & the loco & tender alone, if purchased as open stock, are worth more than you paid.

quote:

Originally posted by CNJ 3676:

Regarding the BQ23-7, here's an interesting page I found:

http://www.robl.w1.com/Pix-4/I-780860.htm

Regards,

Bob

Yes that is the one. I have a model of it from the 80's in the box (in HO) packaged with a Caboose ironically. Bachmann.

Bachmann HO also made a set of the original Autotrain with full domes and the right car carrier.

quote:

Originally posted by C W Burfle:

quote:

I believe that track on the waste cars is just regular O gauge track, not necessarily Super O. I think Lionel used the same outside rails with Super O as with regular O track; just the thin center rail and the ties were different with Super O. I'm pretty sure Lenny Dean or someone said that the Super O fabricating machines were lost or destroyed. Again, we need to get Mike Spanier or Super O Mike to chime in with the straight poop.

Super "O" rails were unique, not the same as "O" or "027". The most noticeable difference is that the tops of the rails are flat.

I looked at some Super O track for sale on the Bay, with an end shot with zoom, and the tops of the rails are definitely round. Perhaps some was made with flat tops, I don't know. In any case, the rails shown on the picture of the toxic waste flatcar shown above are NOT Super O, and certainly don't do anything to prove that Lionel still has the ablilty to make it.

quote:

Originally posted by Andy Hummell:

quote:

Originally posted by CNJ 3676:
I have heard and read some accounts of the thin center rail slicing into pick up rollers. Is there any truth to these stories?

Based on testimonials of Super O users that I have read over the years, it seems that the vast majority of pickup rollers made since the Postwar era have had no problems of this type. Andy

That's what I've heard too, Andy.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Policastro:
The low price and the fact that it was looked at by a few thousand people before I noticed it late in the day does make you wonder though if there is really a resurgence in demand for MPC. Jim

That's a great buy, Jim. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that this was a real hot set at one time, and the great cars in the set contributed to that. It will be a lot of fun for less than 2 bills.

As far as being looked at by a bunch of people at a show, I've had some experience selling at shows here. I haven't done it for years now, because it took far more time than it was worth, and there are much more efficient ways to sell these days.

Also, and going to your point, it was frustrating having great deals on your table, but having people just walk by because they didn't have a clue what they were looking at. Many of us sellers remarked to each other about how we wondered why these people were going to a train show at all; it seemed that many were just there to gawk at things they didn't understand!

I once had guys from a train club, who'd been running a layout at a show and had been too busy to tour the show, come around to quickly look at the tables just before the show ended at 4:00 Sunday. They couldn't believe the stuff on my table and the prices, and that noone had bought the stuff. I told them that believe it or not, noone had even ASKED about the items in two days! They couldn't believe it.

My favorite "they don't know what they're looking at" story involves a show I'd set up at years ago (which costs money of course, because they charge for your tables). I had a bunch of great items sitting on my two tables, but noone bought anything. Immediately after, I took all the items home, raised the prices on them by 15%, and listed them in the TCA buy-sell publication. The very first day the publication came out about a month later, beginning at about 10:00 AM, I had 5 callers call about the items, including 3 national dealers (who advertise in every issue of OGR and CTT), and I had every one of the items sold to dealers before 2:00 in the afternoon at full asking price! And bear in mind that these guys would be marking the items up at least 40% before they sold them!

So I'm not at all surprised that this great deal sat on a table, until finally someone came by who knew something.

quote:

I looked at some Super O track for sale on the Bay, with an end shot with zoom, and the tops of the rails are definitely round.

Glad you found a picture.
Try looking a page 36 of the 1957 Lionel catalog, or an actual piece of track.

quote:

Originally posted by breezinup:

...In any case, the rails shown on the picture of the toxic waste flatcar shown above are NOT Super O...

Yes, they are. Identical rail sections. If you disagree, I know you don't have a piece of Super-O in your hand.

The one pictured is the Fundimensions version, which is nearly identical to the 6805 except that it has 2400 style passenger trucks.

quote:

Originally posted by breezinup:

certainly don't do anything to prove that Lionel still has the ablilty to make it.

Here are pictures of LLC era BLACK "test shots" made of curve & half-curve Super-O, less rails:





These pics are from Mike Spanier.

Joe Mania is in possession of pictured black pieces that he says were molded in 2002-2003 by Lionel, LLC.

quote:

Originally posted by C W Burfle:

quote:

I looked at some Super O track for sale on the Bay, with an end shot with zoom, and the tops of the rails are definitely round.

Glad you found a picture.
Try looking a page 36 of the 1957 Lionel catalog, or an actual piece of track.

You seem argumentative, for some reason. I really don't care if it's flat or rounded. I'm only saying that there are several vendors selling the stuff on Ebay, where their pictures show the outside rails, and they have rounded rail tops, and the pins are round.

As I said before, maybe there was some Super O made with flat top rail, I don't know, and I'm not sure I care all that much. The original object of the my post was to point out, to the person who claimed that Super O track was used on toxic waste flatcars thereby proving that Lionel could still make it, that the shiny new rail used on waste flatcars is the same thing as current O Gauge track. From all appearances, it IS NOT Super O, and doesn't serve to prove anything regarding Lionel's ability to still make Super O track.

Alright, here's a bit of information. The outside rails are T shaped, as CW mentioned (I don't know what that stuff is on Ebay, but look at it - it has round-top rails). But I guess this indeed proves that the rail used on the toxic waste cars is NOT Super O (besides which, as the article states, Lionel hasn't had the tooling to make it in a very long time). As I said before, the track on the waste cars looks like new regular O gauge track. I guess that's because it is. ADCX Rob, you better check your source Joe Mania - he may have been in one of his mania phases when he gave you your information. I put in bold print the part that should be of particular interest.


Lionel Super-O Track
An Historical Perspective

by H. Michael Spanier

Lionel was at its postwar best in consumer interest as well as quality of product during the late 1940s and into the early 1950s. Like every other successful company, Lionel was always looking towards the future to be certain they were meeting the demands needed to sell their products. As the 50s progressed, however, there was a definite sagging of interest in their O and O27 gauge toy trains. HO trains were quickly becoming the leading model railroad gauge in America. HO track used two rails, while Lionel used three, and the ties of HO track were much more realistic-looking.
Super-O curves form a 36" diameter circle. The lighted bumpers had to be modified to fit in the tight spaces between the ties.

Lionel's Super-O switches looked good but were often problematic. Lionel was quite concerned as sales and profits dropped. They searched for fresh ideas to rekindle interest in their toy trains they reviewed and tried many ideas. One major effort was to develop a new track system. This was the start of Super-O track. Let me tell you about Lionel Super-O track and try to spur your imagination back to 1957 when it was introduced for sale as well as in the new Lionel Showroom layout.
During the mid-fifties the space program and many new technological changes were occurring within the United States. Interest in Lionel trains was dramatically on the wane. Lionel sales were plummeting. Electric race car sets, HO scale trains, space programs, chemistry sets, plastic models (of cars, planes, boats, etc.) and many other venues were taking away from Lionel's sales. Lionel needed to come up with something to try and reinvigorate the interest of the train buying public.
Lionel products made between 1957 and 1966 have a unique style.

Packaging for Super-O products followed the various patterns Lionel experimented with throughout the later Postwar era One area that provided an opportunity for improvement was the unrealistic appearance of their 3- rail tinplate track system. Lionel had long been subject to criticism for the "toy like" appearance of their 3- rail track compared to their main competitor, American Flyer, who had 2- rail track. There was no way they could switch to 2- rail but they made a valiant attempt to provide a much more realistic-looking track system. Super-O was introduced in 1957 and was available for sale through 1966.

Super-O would continue to offer the main 3- rail advantage (ease of hook- ups for reversing loops) and be "scale like" in appearance. With its multitude of highly detailed dark brown railroad ties (16 per 9 1/2" straight track section compared to three for traditional tubular track) which included a wood grain appearance plus simulated track plates and spikes. Realistic looking outside rails were tinplate shaped into flat "T" profiles. Ordinary O gauge track was tubular. An "invisible" third rail made of copper provided a most attractive alternative to traditional tubular track. Not to mention that if it caught on it would spur a whole new group of purchases and interests for their new track and hopefully revitalize interest in their trains. The patent was issued by the US Patent Office on March 30, 1954, as:

Patent Number 2,673,689 Toy Railroad Track
Inventor of Record: Joseph L. Bonanno
The patent was applied for on March 26, 1951
The #38 Accessory Adapter Set allowed the installation of older equipment such as the 3424-100 Low Bridge Telltales, shown above, or the 154C Highway Signal contactor.

The automatic switches could be powered independently from the track. The manual switches could be used to cut locomotive power and avoid derailments. Due to the small size and unique shape of the rails, thin strips of copper were used as track pins. The plastic ties were designed to lock sections together. The middle rails used clips which were pressed on top of two joining rails. This method required operators to occasionally inspect the track bed and make sure no clips were slipping off from the rollers moving over them.
Super-O was a creative attempt to rekindle interest in Lionel trains. Lionel advertised that Super-O would enhance Magne-Traction due to the flat surface of the rails compared to the curved surface of O27 and O gauge track. The track system was made available with a complete package of components that included conversion pins so Super-O could connect to operators of O27 and O gauge tubular track. Most available items are listed below.

1. Curves (#31)
2. Straights (#32)
3. 1/2 Curves (#33)
4. 1/2 Straights (#34)
5. Remote Control Set (#36)
Rails (2) only
Button #90
6. Uncouplers (#37)
Uncoupler Only
Button #90
7. Accessory Set (#38)
8. Power Tracks (#43)
9. Insulated Straights (#48)
10. Insulated Curves (#49) 11. Ground Lockon (#61)
12. Power Lockon (#62)
13. Electric Switches (#112)
14. 90 Cross-over (#120)
15. 60 Cross-over (#130)
16. Manual Switches (#142, #142-125, #142-150)
17. Power Bus-bar Connector (#31-7, #31-25, #31-45)
18. Insulated Power Bus-bar Connector (#32-10, #32-20, #32-45, #32-55)
19. Steel Coupling Pins (#31-5)
20. Insulated Coupling Pins (#32-10, #32-55)
21. 1122-500 Adapter Set (O27 to Super-O)
22. T022-500 Adapter Set (O to Super-O)

The #37 Uncoupler was an electro-magnetic coil in the center of the track to uncouple cars or activate certain operating cars Not all Super-O items were produced throughout the 1957 to 1966 time span. As you probably know, the system never had the desired effect of stimulating the type of interest Lionel had hoped for. It seems if Lionel would have elected to produce 54" and 72" diameter track and switches it might have helped but that probably was not the answer either. Its last year of production was 1966, as Lionel cut back on all areas of train production. Super-O's time had come and gone as it slowly disappeared from the market. According to an Inside Track issue from Lionel's Railroader Club, the tooling from Super O had long ago been destroyed.

Today there is a plethora of track systems on the market. Never have there been more track systems for O27 and O gauge trains. One of the advantages that Super-O offers is that it still provides maximum effect for Magne-Traction locomotives due to the flat surface of the steel rail. Many modern scale-detailed track systems are not ferromagnetic, making Magne-Traction worthless. Super-O is also now available in the secondary market custom fitted to any desired diameter. Of course, the switches remain 36" diameter (measured center-rail to center-rail).
The #61 Ground Lock-on could be connected to a #48 Insulated Straight section to provide power to a trackside signal

Super-O track was engineered to be compatible with older items such as the 111 Elevated Trestle Set
Should you have further questions about Super-O track, I would be pleased to answer your E-mailed questions. I have developed an interest in this 40 year-old track system and continually offer it for sale. I currently have an electronic mailing list, which features questions and answers about Lionel Super-O track.

Regards,
Mike Spanier
Also worthy of note is an exquisite 24- page booklet that was produced during 1962 by then Lionel dealer J. L. Rudley. Not only are there 18 pages of well- detailed Super-O layouts, but all layouts include track components used and their item numbers. It also includes six pages featuring scenery, accessories, and wiring. It is a fine Super-O reference book. Don't miss it if Super-O is your interest.

quote:

Originally posted by breezinup:
...According to an Inside Track issue from Lionel's Railroader Club, the tooling from Super O had long ago been destroyed.

The "Inside Track" was wrong, or at least misleading.

And, you forgot to highlight these parts in bold:

...Lionel advertised that Super-O would enhance Magne-Traction due to the flat surface of the rails compared to the curved surface of O27 and O gauge track...

...Realistic looking outside rails were tinplate shaped into flat "T" profiles. Ordinary O gauge track was tubular...

Come join us at the Lionel_SuperO_Track Yahoo Group for more Super O fun, facts, & news. Mike Spanier heads this up.

Well, I mentioned the T rail in my second sentence. Perhaps you missed it.

If Mike is saying something misleading in his article, you should tell him. As I said, I was only trying to point out to the original poster of the waste car photo that the rail on the waste cars wasn't Super O, as he claimed. That's all. I have no real interest in the secret history of Super O. I have no interest in acquiring a track system that had problems and isn't being made anymore. I can't even keep up with the new stuff. All I know is that I never saw it cataloged from MPC days forward. If someone was making plastic Super O roadbed copies from some mystery tooling, you'd think that information would be generally known. But I'll leave that to others who care more.

Silver Lake:

Thanks for bringing up Bachmann's HO Auto-Train equipment. I believe Bachmann introduced it in 1974 if I'm not mistaken. The N scale version appeared in '75. I seem to recall Athearn cataloging an HO A-T U-boat as well.

The BQ23-7 model is a nice piece to own. We may never see another mass produced model of that unit in any scale.

Bob

quote:

You seem argumentative, for some reason. I really don't care if it's flat or rounded. I'm only saying that there are several vendors selling the stuff on Ebay, where their pictures show the outside rails, and they have rounded rail tops, and the pins are round.

I don't know what you were looking at. I suspect it was Kusan track.

The outside rails of Super "O" track looks very much like Gargraves, and uses a flat pin with a rectangular cross section. I have used gargraves pins with Super "O" track for many years. As I posted earlier I had a Super "O" loop on one of the layouts I built. I also used Super "O" track for display before I came into a quantity of Gargraves flex track. I still have the Super "O" track, but probably won't use it for a layout again.

As far as the toxic waste car goes: The original 6805 car did use sections of Super "O" rail. I had one modern era version, but I sold it new and unused about twenty years ago. I don't know what type of rails it had, nor what any of the newer cars have.

Lionel may very well have the dies to mold Super "O" tie sections. I suspect that the tie sections may mot be enough. They would need the equipment to roll the sheet metal rails, stamp and form the metal tie plates, and to crimp everything together. In addition, Super "O" switches have a reputation for self-destructing when the switch coils overheat and melt the innards of the motor mechanism.

This would have made for a nice MPC EP5:

http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/pc4973.jpg

Following New Haven's absorption by Penn Central, EP5's continued to be operated in passenger service from Grand Central Terminal; however, their propensity for catching fire relegated the few remaining motors to local freight service on the former Pennsy between Morrisville, South Kearny, South Amboy and Old Bridge.

Bob

Agreed, would've made a great MPC unit. Sometimes I think MPC means MORE PENN CENTRAL

This thread just keeps on goin'.......

quote:

Originally posted by C W Burfle:
I don't know what you were looking at. I suspect it was Kusan track.

As far as the toxic waste car goes: The original 6805 car did use sections of Super "O" rail. I had one modern era version, but I sold it new and unused about twenty years ago. I don't know what type of rails it had, nor what any of the newer cars have.

It could be Kusan track, I don't know, and both you and Mike Spanier have made it clear that Super O had T shape rails. All I know is that there are two different Ebay sellers right now whose pictures show end shots of round outside rails, and they both have it listed as Super O, and the track has the thin Super O type center rail. Strange.

As far as the original 6805 car, a fellow has a mint example of one of those currently listed on Ebay, with an asking price of $450.00. There are a number of photos provided, which include the Zoom feature, and it can clearly be seen that the car uses round-top rails. Check it out. Maybe some of these cars used Super O track, I don't know, but this mint example has round-top rails.

As far as more modern radioactive waste cars, I have the No. 9389 (made in 1981-82), and it uses the standard round-top O gauge rails.

Don't know if Mythbusters is still being produced, but checking out the Super O roller wear story would make a perfect Xmas segment.

MPC = More Penn Central. I like it.

Here's an interesting PC unit. It is one of a group of F7's obtained from Rio Grande. Just take a Rio Grande unit and stencil it for PC. Many fans aren't even aware of this Penn Central paint variation.

http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/pc721dr.jpg

Bob

quote:

As far as the original 6805 car, a fellow has a mint example of one of those currently listed on Ebay, with an asking price of $450.00. There are a number of photos provided, which include the Zoom feature, and it can clearly be seen that the car uses round-top rails. Check it out. Maybe some of these cars used Super O track, I don't know, but this mint example has round-top rails.

Found the listing. That car certainly does look like it has traditional round-top rails.

quote:

Originally posted by C W Burfle:

quote:

As far as the original 6805 car, a fellow has a mint example of one of those currently listed on Ebay, with an asking price of $450.00. There are a number of photos provided, which include the Zoom feature, and it can clearly be seen that the car uses round-top rails. Check it out. Maybe some of these cars used Super O track, I don't know, but this mint example has round-top rails.

Found the listing. That car certainly does look like it has traditional round-top rails.

Looks are deceiving. That is Super O rail, through & through.

The cannisters do not fit on "O" rail, and while they will snap on to "O-27", "O-27" is taller than the Super O rail sections that are on the Atomic Energy Disposal cars, Postwar & MPC/Modern Era.

Try to fit a "O" or "O-27" pin into one of these rails. It won't go. Super O pins fit perfectly.


Here is the car:

I just looked at my 9389 and it has flat top rails. I bought it new from Charles Ro way back when.

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by RoyD:
Don't know if Mythbusters is still being produced, but checking out the Super O roller wear story would make a perfect Xmas segment.

Speaking of the discovery channel, has anyone seen their new TV spot with the objects circling the globe? One of the things rotating is a modern Santa Fe diesel pulling old-style coaches. When it appears, a steam whistle sounds

A bit off the mark, but appropriately whacky for Discovery

quote:

Originally posted by Boxcar Bill:
I just looked at my 9389 and it has flat top rails. I bought it new from Charles Ro way back when.

Bill

The 9389 from 1982:

quote:

Originally posted by CNJ 3676:
This would have made for a nice MPC EP5:

http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/pc4973.jpg

Following New Haven's absorption by Penn Central, EP5's continued to be operated in passenger service from Grand Central Terminal; however, their propensity for catching fire relegated the few remaining motors to local freight service on the former Pennsy between Morrisville, South Kearny, South Amboy and Old Bridge.

Bob

Notice that in the picture of the EP5 Jet there is only one pantagraph. The PC took one off for operation reasons (they said). This one is a pretty easy distinguishing feature. If you do paint one up (or have a Williams) pop one off for accuracy. A few of these did make several extended stays in Potomac Yard as well.

In addition to the removal of one pantograph, another modification made for freight service was the removal of third rail pick up equipment. As can be seen from the photograph, the locomotives retained their Hancock air whistles. Operating along the former Camden & Amboy between Monmouth Junction and Browns Yard with its many grade crossings, the whistles got quite a workout. I'm sorry I wasn't filming sound movies at the time.

Bob

How different is Lionel-made Flyer rail and Super O rail?

quote:

Originally posted by RoyD:
How different is Lionel-made Flyer rail and Super O rail?

Lionel just started cataloging Flyer S gauge track after the K-Line product was acquired, but it's taller(in the web) than Super O, although the rail head profile and track pins are very similar.

quote:

Originally posted by RoyD:

How different is Lionel-made Flyer rail and Super O rail?

quote:

Originally posted by ADCX Rob:

Lionel just started cataloging Flyer S gauge track after the K-Line product was acquired, but it's taller(in the web) than Super O...

Thanks, Rob. I'm too lazy to dig out a regular piece of Flyer track, so I've been comparing the rails of a Gilbert remote switch to a regular piece of curved Super O. Frankly, to me, the rails look very similar, including the web height. FWIW, I also notice that the Super O rail curve radius is pretty close to the S gauge curve.

Did the Lionel Corporation get the S gauge track tooling when they bought other A.C. Gilbert assets?

quote:

Originally posted by RoyD:

Did the Lionel Corporation get the S gauge track tooling when they bought other A.C. Gilbert assets?

I don't think so. I think I remember that Maury Kline actually ended up with it.

During the MPC years, the former Pennsylvania Railroad N5C cabin car was issued in a wide variety of roadnames and was a true staple in the Fundimensions product line. Unfortunately, one was never released decorated for Penn Central. Such a model would have been quite appealing as seen below:

http://www.hebners.net/pc/pcN5C/pc23000.jpg

A green N5C would have been a more accurate companion piece for the PC GP7 and GG1 than the black 9172 SP type caboose which was released.

Bob

And another PC N5C dressed in an interesting Tuscan variation....

http://www.hebners.net/pc/pcN5C/pc23120.jpg

Bob

While trying not to beat a dead horse, so far nobody has mentioned that they tried to swap or install rails on any version of the radioactive canister flat car. As a small project I once bought a bare 6805 flat car and found unpainted canisters at a show. I bought one piece of Super O track to steal the rails from, BUT...... The Super O rails are shorter than those used on the flat car! I'll have to go find the car, but remember using O-27 rails at first, and I think later I remember buying a second section of track and used pins to connect the two sections of rail together and THEN cut to fit the car. I'm not saying anything about Lionel still being able to make anything Super O or not, but it would seem that at the very least, Lionel never used a stock Super O straight track rail to fit on any flavor of the radioactive container flat car.

As for the tie molds, I've often wondered just how hard it would be for anyone to reproduce any mold for almost anything. The McDonalds happy meal toys seem to change every other week, and from the collection of them floating around the back seat floor of our car, I don't think there are any interchangeable parts. Granted, McDonalds must order those toys by the ton, but there is some factory somewhere in China that make up a mold to produce any kind of plastic shaped widget someone could want. Really, how hard to would it be to make a whole new mold for each piece of Super O track?

This really is an amazing thread!

quote:

Originally posted by newhudson:
...The Super O rails are shorter than those used on the flat car! ...

That's true, the Super O rail can be made any length once you have the machine to form it. O-27 rail will work on the 6805 & descendants, but it is a bit too tall and doesn't quite look right.

Rob,

Thank you for your many posts. I appreciate the depth and accuracy of your knowlege.

Jon

It is great to hear all the positive MPC stories out there.

A book I HIGHLY remommend is Lionel, A Collectors Guide and History, Volume IV, 1970 to 1980, McComas/Tuohy".

The reason I recommend this book is that it has a detailed hisory about the timespan, and the people who made Lionel/MPC a reality.
It makes for a great read, and there are plenty of quotes from the people that made it happen.

The Greenburg books on the MPC era have more product detail, but the
McComas/Tuohy book has a more detailed story about the early MPC years.

Something to consider when looking for a starter set. In the early MPC years a number of "little extras" were included in these sets, such as a figure set, and packing material in the shape of buildings.

The first 2 MPC geeps, the 8030 IC and the 8031 CN have numbers in their number boards, and the early 8020 Santa Fe Alco's have an open pilot with a coupler in the power unit.

Another example of little extras in the early MPC years is the 8043, die cast 2-4-2 GTW steam engine. This litttle engine has detailing on the tender underframe, and in the engine cab.

There is a lot to explore and enjoy in the world of MPC.

My Favorite MPC engine (and running on my layout right now) is the 8600 NYC Baby Hudson from 1976. This was a renmake of the PW 646, and it was the first MPC engine to include Mangetraction.

Check out my yahoo group, LionelMPC.


Ken

Agreed. The TM book is the best available account of the MPC team's rejuvenation of three rail O gauge railroading.

Bob

quote:

My Favorite MPC engine (and running on my layout right now) is the 8600 NYC Baby Hudson from 1976. This was a renmake of the PW 646, and it was the first MPC engine to include Mangetraction.

Didn't this one come with traction tires? This is the one with "Baldwin" wheels, right?