Can anyone here give me a run down on what the requirements are for U.S. customs, and shipping train related products overseas?

I'm asking because today, I went to ship something to England, and was told I had to fill out customs forms. I have never done this, and have shipped things to a variety of other countries before.

Is it law?

Thanks,

John

It is a requirement for shipping companies to gather information on senders and the destination of packages per the Homeland Security Act. Just in case you are sending bomb making components to the terrorists.

No big deal, just fill out the forms. Pretty straight forward.

John I send items all the time to my friend up in Canada thru the Postal Service, UPS, has more fees involved because in Canada the person on the other end, has to pay thru customs a handling fee on top of the shipping fee. It is straight forward but liquid items (Floquil Paint etc.) are a red flag and get folks nervous because of their hazardous nature, so word to the wise.Been there done that. Happy Railroading!!!-Don Klose

Odd. Until today, they never required it of me. I've sent dozens - perhaps hundreds of packages all over the globe.

May seem like a small deal to someone who only ships once in a while, but to me that form is a deal breaker. I spend too much time at the post office as it is, so I guess it means I can no longer ship outside the U.S.

Thanks for the info.,

John

This message has been edited. Last edited by: JohnBoy,

John
the form has been required for a long time. not just recently.

It is a simple white multipart. You actually may be able to complete it online if that is how you buy your postage.

It asks for simple info...names of sender, receiver, est value. Then the receiver pays the VAT of the country they are in.

ralph

quote:

Until today, they never required it of me. I've sent dozens - perhaps hundred of packages all over the globe.

Interesting! I'm not sure how you managed that. Customs paperwork has been a part of many overseas shipping transactions for a very long time--certainly well before 9-11 and/or terrorist activity.

I have only done it when I disclosed that it was a product I sold to someone.... A business kind of thing.....

Just make sure you don't add the cost of shipping in with the total value of the order. If you do UK Customs and Excise will charge the receiver VAT on the postage as well.

These forms put off some US stores from shipping abroad. However UK Customs can't touch you guys in the USA if you make a mistake.
As I understand it, the last time UK C&E tried something in America it was in Boston and ended up with a misunderstanding over some tea

Nick

The worst part about it to me is that it looks like there is no way to automate the process. The post office should provide a simple HTML-based form that can be used to automatically generate the form, which I could easily integrate with my on-line order/fulfillment system. Then all I'd have to do at the post office is sign it and hand to the clerk.

But no way am I going to fill out one of these stupid things every single time I have a foreign order. The information they ask for is all redundant - your name & address (on the package, and on my credit-card profile), the receiver's name and address (on the package), the weight (which they know because that's how they quote you the shipping price).

All they should do is ask you the $$ amount, and a brief description of the items ("model train accessories"), and then they should print it out for you and let you sign it right there.

Oh well. Foreign orders are a tiny fraction of my business, so no big loss I guess.

(What an antiquated system we have, to be the most developed nation on earth. )

John

John-I believe you can fill out the form online here. It does look like you have to reenter the sender and recipient information, but at least you can do that at your computer and not while standing in line at the PO.

Mr MT-I've had to do these things for years for sending Xmas gifts etc overseas, so I don't think it is limited to products being sold. Maybe my local PO was more vigilant about it. It used to tick me off, considering I was usually sending the items to U.S. service members overseas, and I hated having to list the item and cost on the outside of a present.

You can find out on line via US Customs what other country prohibit, tax, and/or allow free. Also, it depends on whether it is a purchased item or gift. The free trade agreements we have do effect some transactions (to our benefit) I wouldn't anticipate that you would have any problems with trains.

Been there, sent that!

Very simple form really..

The "key" tho... is normally the stated value. The receiver will be responsible to pay tax on the value before they get the item.

Like Mr Muffin said, if you send it as a business operation. then you're required to fill out custom's forms. And like Allen said, this is nothing new.

You must not have been declaring it as a business transaction.

Have you considered researching this question on the web, e.g., w/the US Postal Service or Customs and Border Protection?

I have not searched exhaustively yet on the net, no. I did find the little web-app that the post office has that basically makes you type in all the information, and then it provides a PDF file () that you can print out ahead of time. They really need to take that to the next level and allow an HTTP form-post so I can do it automatically.

Better yet, just publish a simple HTML form that I can stuff values into programatically.

quote:

And like Allen said, this is nothing new.

Exactly! The post office is stuck in 1950's mentality. There are also three different versions of the silly form that depend on certain conditions and even countries. Really stupid. They even want you to provide the weights of the individual products inside the package! And I could automate even that (just store a weight for each product in the database), but I still can't generate the filled-out form, because I don't have access to a digital copy of the blank form.

Like I said, it's no sweat off my back - my international orders are puny. I just don't understand why they never made me do it (for years) until now. And I think it's a crying shame that there isn't a simple way for a business to automate it.

John

Actually the process is already automated. It's just that the post office doesn't do it.

At work we process all our mail through a software application from Endicia. You buy the postage through them and then you print it out as you need it. The program allows for customs forms and will fill in all the addresses throughout the forms. You do have to fill in the product lines individually but that's usually pretty quick. After your done you print out the label with postage and any required customs documents.

Martin Z

Often times, the buyer will ask you to misstate the value or to "gift" the merchandise to him...that's the only DEALBREAKER I encounter...the form takes 10 seconds to completely fill out...the best part is that it opens your marketplace up to encompass the entire WORLD!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Ron Blume:
Often times, the buyer will ask you to misstate the value or to "gift" the merchandise to him...that's the only DEALBREAKER I encounter...the form takes 10 seconds to completely fill out...the best part is that it opens your marketplace up to encompass the entire WORLD!!!

Yes, be truthful when filling out Customs Declarations. eBay is the LAST THING I'd commit a Federal Felony over.

Yes, the form is very easy to complete. Keep in mind that the buyer pays, in some cases, a LOT of import tax. I have had an Ebay customer in Brazil, and he told me the tax is (something like) 40% of the stated value. Just be aware of that.

Interestingly, as far as stated value, often organizations have in mind "garage sale" type valuations.

ive sent graff trains around the world as far as austrailia.when you fill out the int form you always mark off gift,because if you dont ,customs will open said item and then charge the reciever $$$$.and not to mention might even damage the train in said inspection process,so to avoid this nightmare, check off GIFT.this pertains to trains only.i have personaly encountered this.when i shipped a graffed train to canada.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnBoy:


Like I said, it's no sweat off my back - my international orders are puny. I just don't understand why they never made me do it (for years) until now. And I think it's a crying shame that there isn't a simple way for a business to automate it.

John

This is a shame, you are missing out on a growing overseas market.

quote:

Originally posted by CCrider:
ive sent graff trains around the world as far as austrailia.when you fill out the int form you always mark off gift,because if you dont ,customs will open said item and then charge the reciever $$$$.and not to mention might even damage the train in said inspection process,so to avoid this nightmare, check off GIFT.this pertains to trains only.i have personaly encountered this.when i shipped a graffed train to canada.

In Australia we don't pay additional taxes. I order nearly everything from US suppliers for my trains, and have never asked anything to be marked as a gift. Why risk the wrath of US Customs?
The forms attached to goods I buy look very simple to fill in. If this is too hard for some dealers to cope with, they must have very good businesses. What recession?

I sold an MTH premier Big Boy to a fellow in England and it cost a pile and I had to fill out the customs form. No biggie. When it got to him the carton was mashed on one end because the royal mail had subbed the shipping to some fly by night company and I had to really pressure the guy to get him to accept and open the box to check the engine. All was well when he did but relying on foreign parcel delivery services is even worse than UPS.

I can't help wondering that JohnBoy has spent the equivalent of, maybe, 10 or so custom form preps in the time he's spent on this thread!



Rod

If the form is to much work to fill out, don't sell out of the country.

Bruce

If it was US Customs wouldn't you have to do it on every domestic order?

---------------
why do they call it shipping
if it goes by air and truck?

quote:

I can't help wondering that JohnBoy has spent the equivalent of, maybe, 10 or so custom form preps in the time he's spent on this thread!

It's the prospect of filling out hundreds or thousands of those forms in the future. I don't like engaging in endeavors that can't scale up, and this is one of them. That's why I'm poo-pooing the post office for preventing me from automating it.

quote:

If the form is to much work to fill out, don't sell out of the country.

Yup. That's where I am until they publish an open-source version of the digital form.

John

tell dem nutin

cuban cigarz 4ever

You need to fill out the form to identify what it is for many reasons, there are some things that can not fly on passenger planes, sometimes for monetary reasons and for national security. Do your government and yourself a favor take the small amount of time and fill it out.
John

quote:

Originally posted by John Pignatelli:
You need to fill out the form to identify what it is for many reasons, there are some things that can not fly on passenger planes, sometimes for monetary reasons and for national security. Do your government and yourself a favor take the small amount of time and fill it out.
John

Smuggling! It's not just a job. It's an adventure! It's also 5 to 10!

quote:

Originally posted by JohnBoy:

It's the prospect of filling out hundreds or thousands of those forms in the future. I don't like engaging in endeavors that can't scale up, and this is one of them. That's why I'm poo-pooing the post office for preventing me from automating it.......

......That's where I am until they publish an open-source version of the digital form.

John

Perhaps you just didn't look hard enough. In a simple search of the postal service web site I found these 2 items.

http://www.usps.com/shippingassistant/welcome.htm

http://www.usps.com/webtools/welcome.htm

I could be reading the description wrong but I believe the first is a desktop application that does what I think your asking for. The second gives you the code to intergrate the same function into your own program.

As to why you've never been asked for customs forms before. I can't say. I do know that in some conditions they aren't needed, some service and countries require one form, some require an alternate form. The counter people at most post offices are familer with the type of mail they receive the most. If you're the only one at your post office who mails overseas it wouldn't surprise me the counter people don't know the regs.

I would fill out the forms though. I don't think the U.S. Customs looks at them that much but once it gets to the destination if the information isn't there the local government can open up the undeclared package and assign a value to it that they think is correct.

Martin Z

Ah yes, Cuban cigars. Are they really any better than those form Puerto Rico? Last year 4 of us went up to Canada sledding. They young guy announced that he was expecting a package sent from Victoria by a friend. I was astounded that it was just cigars. Fortunately, the Motel owner sent the package back prior to our arrival not knowing of course of the devious plan. But then to my astonishment, the US Customs when looking over my tailer and such calmly asked if we had any Cuban Cigars. I asked them what was up with that. She told me due to the age of two of my partners it would be likely. I guess I should be thankful that young folks will still associate with me on occasion.

When my son was in Iraq last year had to do a customs form with everything. Really all the post office was doing was shipping the package to the army USA APO address I think was in New York. Then the army shipped and delivered the package to my son in Iraq.

Two big problems - the fuddy duddy old ladies at the post office. There were items you could not ship and they changed at times - so in reading the custom forms one old lady would let something go through while the next one down would not and some never even looked at the form while others inspected it intensely.

I mean a good example was chocolate. It was banned for a while cause people where shipping dope covered by chocolate like hollowed out snickers bars - but then they reversed it. After I had to make two trips to the post office to open a package, take out the offending item like snickers or M+M's, rewrap it and make another trip all future package on the customs form the only thing I listed was books and magazines. Solved all sorts of post office problems.

The second thing was theft on the army side of things. It was unbelievable how many laptops, x boxes, cameras and any other sort of electronics, DVD's and you name it never made it to your family member because a bad apple in the army's shipping read what was in the box by the custom form and stole it.

Post Office insurance - laughable - try to make a claim and the post office's insurance would deny it cause they claimed the army lost or damaged it and you know what the army said about funding you for the loss - the post office caused it.

I also put two plastic black garbage bags into the box loading the items into the bags and sealing them in a particular manner, so my son could tell if someone had opened or tampered with the box and not once was any package opened and inspected.

Son is now back in the USA but still now when I send any package overseas anywhere I just write on the customs form books and magazines.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnBoy:
It's the prospect of filling out hundreds or thousands of those forms in the future. I don't like engaging in endeavors that can't scale up, and this is one of them. That's why I'm poo-pooing the post office for preventing me from automating it.

John

Since you're such a hot shot and planning on doing "hundreds or thousands" overseas transactions, why don't you just pony up and set up a contract with FedEx or UPS and have them handle it for you. Quit all the unproductive bellyaching about the post office and get down to business.

Rod

quote:

I mean a good example was chocolate. It was banned for a while cause people where shipping dope covered by chocolate like hollowed out snickers bars - but then they reversed it. After I had to make two trips to the post office to open a package, take out the offending item like snickers or M+M's, rewrap it and make another trip all future package on the customs form the only thing I listed was books and magazines. Solved all sorts of post office problems.

Now there's a great policy in place. They catch some people smuggling dope in/out of the country in chocolates, and then decide to ban all chocolates. Nice. So if someone sticks a bag of dope in a Ford and gets caught, does Customs then ban all automobile imports/exports? Really pathetic.

quote:

Since you're such a hot shot and planning on doing "hundreds or thousands" overseas transactions, why don't you just pony up and set up a contract with FedEx or UPS and have them handle it for you. Quit all the unproductive bellyaching about the post office and get down to business.

Rod

Nice post. Are you an ex-postal worker? And I really love your solution: I should just throw money at some large carrier to solve the post office's problems for me. There's progress for 'ya.

John

quote:

Originally posted by CCrider:
ive sent graff trains around the world as far as austrailia.when you fill out the int form you always mark off gift,because if you dont ,customs will open said item and then charge the reciever $$$$.and not to mention might even damage the train in said inspection process,so to avoid this nightmare, check off GIFT.this pertains to trains only.i have personaly encountered this.when i shipped a graffed train to canada.

WHY would you LIE for a complete stranger half the way across the world...risk JAILTIME for someone you would never meet??? And leave a paper trail on Ebay 5 miles wide??? Ridiculous!!!

quote:

Ah yes, Cuban cigars. Are they really any better than those form Puerto Rico?

YES much superior. Back in about 1972 I had the opertunity to buy cigars made from 1959 vintage Cuban tobacco that had been stored in New York since 59. They were $2.50 each which was expensive. I bought 1 all I could aford at the time. It was so good that when we went to Michigan to visit my inlaws that I went back to the local tobbaco shop and bought two more so I could give my father in law one. We probably looked very funny sitting on the back of oue cars in front of his house smoking Cuban cigars.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnBoy:
I should just throw money at some large carrier to solve the post office's problems for me. There's progress for 'ya.

My point is, son, that if you worked for me you wouldn't be working for me for very long. What you are doing is simply non-productive b**ching as opposed to solving the problem so that you can take care of business and move product. If that means using another carrier, so be it.

Rod

quote:

Originally posted by Ron Blume:
WHY would you LIE for a complete stranger half the way across the world...risk JAILTIME for someone you would never meet??? And leave a paper trail on Ebay 5 miles wide??? Ridiculous!!!

Same reason that people would lie on their income tax returns. Also some believe that it is ok because the government being cheated is not the US. While prosecution is not likely, it is possible as a few people I have met have found out to their surprise.

quote:

My point is, son, that if you worked for me you wouldn't be working for me for very long. What you are doing is simply non-productive b**ching as opposed to solving the problem so that you can take care of business and move product. If that means using another carrier, so be it.

Rod

Thanks for the lecture Dad. Yeah, you're right - I'm just not a very take-charge person. I have no initiative, and don't believe in innovating, I pretty much just sit here on my a$$ and do nothing but complain. That's me.



John

I found some more information on their site:

http://webapps.usps.com/custom...ms/helppickaform.htm

"* Customs forms are not required on First Class Mail International items that: Weigh less than 16 ounces and do not have potentially dutiable contents. Weigh 16 ounces or more; do not have potentially dutiable contents; and are entered by a known mailer."

I bet most of my packages weigh less than 16 oz., which is why they never asked me to do it. I bet this new guy just doesn't know this rule (?).

John

The key phrase there is: ...do not have potentially dutiable contents.

The following directly from USPS website:

Priority Mail® International Flat Rate Envelope, Priority Mail® International Small Flat Rate Box, and First Class Mail® International shipments

PS Form 2976 is required on all Priority Mail International Flat Rate Envelopes or Priority Mail International Small Flat Rate Boxes

If the value of the contents is less than $400.00, is potentially dutiable, or weighs 16 ounces or less affix Customs Form - PS Form 2976 to the exterior of the mailpiece. If the value of the contents is $400.00 or more, is potentially dutiable, or weighs 16 ounces or more affix the upper portion of the green customs label Customs Form - PS Form 2976 to the exterior of the mailpiece and place a completed Customs Declaration and Dispatch Note - PS Form 2976-A inside the package.

A customs form is not required on the following categories of mail:

Non-dutiable First Class Mail International items that weigh less than 16 ounces.

Non-dutiable First Class Mail International items that weigh 16 ounces or more when they are tendered by a known mailer (tenders volume mailings through a Business Mail Entry Unit or other bulk mail acceptance location; completes a statement of mailing at the time of entry; pays postage through an advance deposit account; and utilizes a permit imprint as an indication of postage payment. International Surface Air Lift and International Priority Airmail customers and federal, state, and local government entities are considered to be "known mailers" for this purpose).




Express Mail International® Shipments

The customs form requirement for EMI shipments varies by country. Use PS Form 2976 Customs Form or PS Form 2976-A Customs Declaration and Dispatch Note as specified by the country. Consult your local Post Office™ for additional details.
Consult your local Post Office or the online International Mail Manual for additional information about customs requirements in your destination country.

A customs form is not required on the following categories of mail:

Express Mail International (EMI) shipments (to certain destination countries) that weigh less than 16 ounces and that contain documents, business papers, or commercial papers.




Priority Mail International

Regardless of value or contents, every Priority Mail International package must bear a completed PS Form 2976-A Customs Declaration and Dispatch Note that is inserted into Envelope for PS Form 2976-E.


Global Express Guaranteed

Depending on the contents and destination country, a Global Express Guaranteed shipment may require a PS Form 6182, Commercial Invoice. The commercial invoice requirement for GXG shipments varies by country. Consult your local Post OfficeTM or the online Global Express Guaranteed Service Guide, Publication 141, for additional information about commercial invoice requirements in your destination country.


The Shipping of trains as a business transaction is dutiable.

I actually enjoy selling to oversea buyers. They seem to appreciate the effort and go out of their way to be helpful. But, I tell them up front the declared value will be the auction price. The most interesting situation was a guy in France that bought a brass 4-12-2 and thought he was going to have to pay a fortune in taxes. It was sent through the USPS (with all the forms filled out honestly) and delivered with no taxes or fees due. He was incredulous but smart enough not to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Actually, US Customs doesn't give a %$#@ on exports that are not restricted. It's the importing country that cares. Taiwan is the worst because you can't import anything made in "China". They just confiscate stuff into the void.

Now, Ebay does care. If the importing country complains to Ebay watch your selling "privileges" get restricted or removed. Just remember that if someone from Taiwan wants to get something from Atlas O through you!

Richard

Yeah, I have no doubt about the fact that what I'm sending is covered under the policy. I was just thinking that these particular employees assumed it was under weight, and not dutiable. Or something else. Heck, I dunno what goes through their minds.

By filling one out on-line, I was able to get an image of a blank form, which I can easily fill in automatically from my software and just print out. But there is a tracking number (with a bar code at the top) that I can't fake.

Too bad - if there was a service that just provided those images (and not a PDF file) then I could complete this and it would be a breeze.

John

WEBMASTEr

isn't it time to close this thread. Johnboy has his way and let him have it.


ralph

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Allen:
In Australia we don't pay additional taxes. I order nearly everything from US suppliers for my trains, and have never asked anything to be marked as a gift. Why risk the wrath of US Customs?
The forms attached to goods I buy look very simple to fill in. If this is too hard for some dealers to cope with, they must have very good businesses. What recession?

ive marked many things to austrailia as gifts,and havent got no complaints.