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Spend a little more time on it  the tops really need to be clean. I thought my layout was running good with only 2 feeders but this past week I added 2 more and it did make a difference. Now all 4 of my engines run very slowly thru the whole trackwork. |
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Three words:
Rusty Track Pins As weathered as these are, there has to be some corrosion causing your ills. I'd pull this oldie, pull the pins out, wire brush or replace all the track pins, and use a dremel with a small stone or a rolled up cylinder of 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper used dry to get inside the pin holes. When you think its clean, do it again. Jim "Corripe Cervisiam" A proud member of the former TMCC Demo Group Ironville, Sporting Valley and Southern RR |
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That track appears to be in pretty sad shape. Not saying that it can't be cleaned-up and put in good working order again, but I'm not sure I would go through the effort. Keep in mind that corrosion occurs inside tubular track as well as on the outside, and even though you can't see it there, it can cause a lot of woes.
There's no substitute for good, clean, solid, and well-laid trackwork. The operation of your entire layout depends on it. If you want trains to perform well, the first place to start is with the track. Allan Miller, Editor-In-Chief O Gauge Railroading magazine |
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Ya, you may be right.. Maybe it would be better just to swap it all over to new. I got boxes full of O27.. but no O... maybe I should start pricing some out. Paul B |
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As a start, I'd replace all the track that you can. I helped my sister rebuild her layout just this past december. The track had rusted due to the layouts location in the house- high humidity that could not be avoided while the house was being remodeled. She had to buy all new track, the Lionel O27 switches were just junk. I bought her replacements(all K-Line) as her Christmas present(had to explain to the TSA what the heck I had in my luggage
 ). I've never seen those switches before-- I think you probably won't find exact relplacements, so I'd suggest buying Ross Switches as replacements. They are just about bulletproof, and they attach to Lionel track easily. Hope you get the layout up & running soon! More pictures too! P.S. that Jefferson transformer may actually still work. I've got an old Lionel Type K (150W) that approximates your jefferson-- it's just as rusted & battered, but it works!! I don't use it on the layout, its more of an heirloom. William Pickert "A day without trains is a day wasted" |
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Even if you do get them clean, you should solder the wires [power & common]directly to the switches so you don't have to depend on the track pins period!!! regardless if you get new switches or clean up the old ones. member: TCA |
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Nice weathering job
Happy Rails to you Charlie TCA, TTOS PRRT&HS, N&WHS |
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Those switches are VERY OLD Lionel production. I'd say they date back to the Coolidge Administration. The swiveling closure rails have no insulation on them to prevent rollers from shorting against them as a locomotive passes through the switch. Even after they are cleaned, this design flaw means they aren't worth the trouble. Go to a train meet and get some 021 switches with RED FIBER closure rails ($5.00 ea.) or some postwar #042 manual switches for $15 ea.
 You say they're On The Water, I say they're Sur l'eau. |
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I would agree with the track pins - look at the center rail at the right hand side of the picture.
It would appear that your layout is in modules, and a junction is right at the edge of the switch. If that was the case, and they have been put together and taken apart, all three rails might be 'bell-mouthed' and need to be 'squeezed back into shape'. What I do is take a pair of needle-nosed pliers and squeeze the web, starting at the edge, and move up a quarter of an inch or so until the pliers fills up between the bottom of the I and the tube. Then if need be, and you need to be very careful doing this, I find another piece of track with factory-made indentations, and take a pair of wire cutters and squeeze some indentations into the track, being careful not to get the track out of round. The location is such that when the track pin is inserted it will lock in where the dimples are. Like I said, its easy to make a mistake. If the inside of the rail is corroded, you will either have to clean that too or replace the track. If it is a module, maybe you can take it apart to replace the switch and the straight. Michael    |
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Seriously, consider replacing the track and switches you have, and save yourself a lot of time and grief.
You say you're new to the 3-rail world. That being the case, I might recommend one of the track systems with build-in roadbed. They are offered by Lionel, MTH, and Atlas O/Industrial Rail. I use Lionel's FasTrack system myself, and am very satisfied with it. That's not a product recommendation because different folks have different needs and desires, but that's what I use and it works, unfailingly, for me. I've found the switches to be especially reliable. The downside is that FasTrack isn't exactly inexpensive (which shouldn't be a big problem if the layout is fairly modest in size, as mine are). I paid about $3.90 for regular sections, $3.70 for fitter sections and such, $42 for manual switches, and about $75, as I recall, for remote switches. That was at a local hobby shop, so you may find better prices in your local area or online. You can also go with conventional tubular O or O27 track (like you already have) and it is considerably less expensive. If having more realistic trackwork is important to you--now or in the future--you might consider Atlas O, GarGraves, or others. In that case you would probably want to add roadbed and ballast, which adds to the expense and the time involved. But for folks just starting out, I'm of the notion that keeping things simple (and reliable) is a good idea. The goal is to get trains up and running so you can and will enjoy the hobby, and these days that's quite easy to accomplish. Allan Miller, Editor-In-Chief O Gauge Railroading magazine |
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In this economic climate you have to consider that replacing the track on even a small layout like mine (8x16) can easily run into 4 figures, especially if you use one of the new track "systems" that have proliferated in the last 10 years. Fixing what you have and replacing bad sections with tubular track in good shape is probably the most sensible move for now. When the economy gets better, then you upgrade to the best system you can afford. You say they're On The Water, I say they're Sur l'eau. |
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By the way Paul, what is the trackplan of this layout?
You say they're On The Water, I say they're Sur l'eau. |
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s1120,
I'm not saying that all the advise above isn't good, or worth considering. But I've been in the hobby a while and have done so on a tight budget at times. I have taken old beat up switches and gotten them working again. From your photos, it's hard to tell, but to me it looks like 027 track. Those switches surely must be old, as was said. But I've had experience with the manual 1024 Lionel switches and still have some in use on my layout. Again, hard to say just how rusted the switches really are from the photos. Aqnd you mentioned spending some time to clean them, but I don't know how or what you did. But here's what I have done to get old beat up switches up and working. First off, remove all the track pins on the switch and place the switch on some newsprint and spray it well with WD40 and let that soak overnight. Then you want to use some sort of ScotchBrite scrubbing pad and really scrub down the rails. You could use a steel wool Brillo pad too, though this is commonly not suggested for the reason that as the pad comes apart, it can leave small strands of steel wool on the switch, which can cause shorts, or eventually be picked up by a locomotive. But I've used the steel wool pads at this early stage of the cleaning with no future trouble. Basically you want to get as much of the corrosion off as you reasonably can. I've then washed the switches with hot detergent water and rinsed them, immediately drying them with a blow dryer to get all the water off them, both outside and inside the rails. If it's a nice hot sunny day, hit them with the blow dryer, then put them out in the sun for a while and that will get them dry. A Dremel tool can come in handy if you happen to have one. With a polishing brush, you can go over the tops of the rails. I would also take a small round jewelers-type file and insert it into the ends of all the open rails where you removed train pins and spin the file inside the rails - especially if the track pins you removed were rusty when you pulled them out. Clean all you track pins too or replace them. This is one point where having some brand new track pins comes in handy. The 1024 switch also has track pins inserted on the inside center rails on both the straight way and curved side leading away from the swivel rail... your swithes appear to either not have them, or they are pushed in so far, I can't clearly see them. Once you have the rails as clean as you can get them, take a clean rag and spray it with some WD40 and wipe down all the rails and let that soak overnight. This will help protect the rails from any coating you may have removed and from any future rusting. Next day just wipe off the tops of the rails with a clean rag. When you re-insert the metal track pins, make sure all the rail opening a not stretched out too much. If the pin goes in too easily, you wnat to use a set of pliers and crimp the rails tightly so the track pins are not loose. Another thing I have noticed is to make sure the rails are not loose or wobble to much within the sheet metal base of the switch. You may have to tighten these. Take two or three popsicle sticks (or something similar) and place those below the area of the loose rail. Then using screw driver with a hammer, tighten up those connections. You may also want to test the switch out first for electric flow, though you saisd this does not appear to be a problem. Connect a couple wires from the transformer to the center and outer rails on one end of the switch. Then using a small light bulb with wire leads, make sure current is flowing to all parts. I know this sounds like a lot of work. I've done this a number of times and it actually gets pretty easy and quicker than you might suspect once you've done it. And I'm not discounting the advice to purchase new switches (or better condition used ones). But if you are on a budget with maybe more time on your hands than money, attempting to clean these up good before you buy new ones will at least make you feel like you did your best to save them. And if you do get them working again (as I have done) it'll give you a sense of pride that you took something that looked like a total loss and turned into something that works again... and that's a great feeling. brianel027 |
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That's POSITIVELY O gauge track. Due to the design defect I noted in an earlier post, I'd replace ALL of that type of switches on the layout. Darn, I wish I lived in his town, I have a bunch of clean usable tubular 031 curves (30+ sections) and switches (#021 prewar manual, 3 pairs) I can give him if I can figure out how to get the stuff from Syracuse to Hudson. Does anyone have any ideas? You say they're On The Water, I say they're Sur l'eau. |
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Its worth mentioning tht that old prewar switch has been cut down so no "new" switch will drop in and you probably would want to avoid cutting up a new one to fit. You can probably get that guy going again, concentrate on the pins and the inside of the rails where the pins go, make sure those connections underneath are good as was mentioned and good luck!
Dennis Holler If its old and broke, I like it |
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Every now and then we get good things happen. Go for it s1120 |
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I think you've all been had. I think this is a joke!
Earl |
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Please elaborate. Is it because the new poster hasn't yet responded on a holiday weekend?  member: TCA |
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Good used tubular track (along with a huge number of other O gauge stuff) on eBay is cheap. That said, I also believe somebody might be pulling our chain. jmho |
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Wow thats for all the info guys!!!!
And nope... Its no joke. Go down a little bit, and find my post about my new layout. This was a train layout that my stepdad picked up back in the 70's and has been sitting in the celler for years. After my Mom passed, all the train stuff was left to me. I used to play around with the 3 rail stuff back as a kid, but have been out of it [moved to HO, and G] for almost 30 years! Allan, ya, I have been reading up a lot the last few months on the diferent kinds of track, but I realy want to keep the old style look that this layout has. Also cost is a factor also. Thanks for the advice though!! Now about it being O27. Nope, defently not. I also have a few boxes of that, and this is a lot higher rail then the O27 stuff. Defently O... Other then that, I have no idea. Still learning.  Techie, WOW thats a very nice offer!!! I will drop you a line for sure. A little background... I help run a forum for the tractor hobby. We get a lot of that kinda "Pay it foward" stuff there, and realy makes the place feel like home. I know I have sent out a lot of bits and peices for some old garden tractor to get a guy back up and running. So thanks everyone!!! Lots of good info to go on here!!!!! Feel free to offer more advice, or diferent view points!!! Paul B |
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Not a problem, Paul! You should easily be able to find new conventional tubular O gauge track and some lovingly used O gauge switches at very affordable prices. And depending on the size of the layout I still think you'll be far better off going with new track rather than spending an ordinate amount of time and effort trying to get the old stuff in reliable running order. Just my opinion! Allan Miller, Editor-In-Chief O Gauge Railroading magazine |
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Thanks. the layout is not that big. 4x10 give or take a few inches. You know.. I think I will re-track it it with some new, or good used track. I had wanted to keep it, but being I have to pull some up anyways, I might as well change it all. the layout does come apart. there are three sections. The two end peices are 4x4 freestanding tables, and there is a center section that fit between them thats 2 foot wide. that is the peice that these switches are on. Wile I have it apart, I will at least replace all the track on this 2 foot section wile I do the switches. Paul B |
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Well I started pulling it apart!!!
 Going to replace it all. The pins are all pretty nasty, and the track, wile cleaning up OK, still looks a little iffy, so its going to be replaced. Thanks for all the help!! Paul B |
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