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With the debate raging on what way we should go on alternatives to reduce oil consumption I was wondering what those GE and EMD new beast get to a gallon of diesel fuel. I know that some of those tanks hold up to 8000 gallons.
Europe is going mostly all electric on their railroads. Is electricity that much more economical if generated buy other means beside fossil fuel? John P It is my only vice. The doctors told me I could not do the other things I loved to do anymore.  Happy days are own the way. www.aghrclub.org Charter member of the greatest RR Club in the World. "Angels Gate Highrailers" |
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Joe;
In my area, they've been running ads that say they can move a ton of freight 423 miles on 1 gallon of diesel. Don't know how they calculate that but who knows? Chuck TCA, MTHRRC, Atlas Golden Spike Club |
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I asked this same question on the OTrains Yahoo group about a year ago. I believe Greg Elems was the one who responded. Apparently, the diesels are rated in Gallons Per Hour (GPH) and this varies according to load and power level being applied. When the train gets up to speed momentum kicks in they don't consume as much fuel per hour as during acceleration. Maybe Wyhog, Greg, or Hot Water will chime in with the numbers. BTW, the diesel they use isn't taxed at the same rate as "pump" diesel because it's off-road.
The 423 miles per gallon figure can be calculated by factoring in the freight tonnage (lets say 1 million pounds or 500 tons) then figuring out the fuel consumption at speed. Matt Jackson A.I.M. Screen Name: MJ928s Angels Gate Hi-Railers, San Pedro, California http://www.aghrclub.org Moving Freight and Passengers from Point A to Point A for almost 1/8th of a century!
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A lot of European electricity is generated with nuclear plants -- something which has been fought vigorously in the States. Europe's population is much more densly distributed, on average, than that in the States. European railroads are mostly owned by governments, which takes a different view of total return on investment than do the stateside railroads. During WWII, the Swiss electrified some steam locomotives with electric heater coils in the fireboxes -- they were largely cut off from coal but had plenty of hydroelectric power available. |
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The only MPG I know of in a RR diesel is the Colorado Railcar that Tested on Tri-Rail and Got 5 mpg.
I believe today's High HP diesels are down to 1-4 gal/Hr. I am sure Rich, Wyhog, Hotwater and others would knwo better as they are out in the field. Remember, IT also depends on the train too... an lightweight intermodal would do better than a coal drag. member: TCA & LCCA |
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And curiously enough, we are told that the engines we currently use are most fuel efficient at full throttle (Notch 8) Of course, it isn't feasible to run every train at full throttle, but not uncommon to run an 18,000 ton coal train that way for a majority of the trip....
This will be all solved once they restring the catenary on the NS Port Road Branch as it was, and bring out the new, redesigned E-44's LCCA #27500 |
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Folks,
A single intermodal train can move the equivalent of 280 truckloads. Averaged over the total load, a ton of freight can go 436 miles by train on a gallon of fuel, four times furthur than it can by truck. |
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Now that I have some more numbers, I decided to play around with them.
Let's say the train weight is 20,000 tons or 40,000,000 pounds. If you're running four diesels up front consuming 4GPH at 60MPH (16 GPH for the four locomotives.) That means the train is covering 60 miles across 16 gallons of fuel for 3.75MPG. That's pretty impressive. Let's assume that each engine is consuming 9GPH at that speed, you get 1.667MPG -- still impressive given the weight involved. I don't know that the consumption figures are for diesel locomotives in an MU with a 20K ton train weight, but it looks like that advertising claim may hold water when you calculate the mileage based on moving one ton of freight, but it's a theoretical model since you don't move one ton of freight on a train. Matt Jackson A.I.M. Screen Name: MJ928s Angels Gate Hi-Railers, San Pedro, California http://www.aghrclub.org Moving Freight and Passengers from Point A to Point A for almost 1/8th of a century!
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Matt, It actually gets better than that, as the coal train I had the other day weighed 18,585 tons and had only 2 locomotives (@ 4,000 HP each).... LCCA #27500 |
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I have seen the same CSX adds on several cable news channels. Seems like a hugh locomotive can get that much mileage, then they should be able to move that down into cars and trucks!! I think this number is pretty much playing fast and loose with the actual calculations. If at first you don't succeed....don't try sky diving. Tim |
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Here is an interesting link with cost estimate for different modes of transportation in gallons per ton per mile.
http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2007/08/tangerines-by-gallon.html Briefly: Air - 7 Sea - 500 Rail - 400 Truck - 100 Car/Pickup - 20 |
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Matt, you're going to have to re-calculate your numbers because a diesel locomotive consumes a LOT more than 4 gallons per hour when in Run 8! That 4-gph figure is when IDLING! In notch 8 a diesel consumes between 150 and 200 gallons per hour depending on the model. The SD70, for example consumes about 190 gallons per hour in Notch 8. Even so, the steel wheel on the steel rail is still the most fuel-efficient mode of land transport there is.
One of the reasons for the great fuel economy of a train is the horsepower per ton of a typical freight train. In relatively flat country a common dispatch power rating is 2 hp/ton. To put that in context, it would mean that your 2-ton automobile would have FOUR horsepower! If you put a four HP engine in your car, you probably could get the same kind of mileage as a train. Just don't try to go up any really steep hills! In very rugged, mountainous territory a train might be dispatched with as much as 8 HP/TON. At that dispatch rate, your car would now have all of 16 HP...a real speed demon!  A train can move well with that tiny amount of power because the steel wheel on the steel rail offers so little drag compared to a rubber tire on asphalt. And that is why a train is by far the most fuel-efficient mode of land transport there is. |
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It is generally thought that the new fuel efficient CSX locos get better mileage then our new truck fleet. My new CSX Chevy 3500 super heavy duty 4wd utility pickup gets a whopping 8.5 mpg when cruse is set to 65mph on the highway. And thats with an overdrive Tranny! LOL...
Hey I have a Railroad to Run... Operating the NYC, CSX, PRR, and NYNH & H RR Daily ! Where Trains run Often Located in Billville USA. |
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That's the missing piece if info I was looking for. Makes perfect sense. Matt Jackson A.I.M. Screen Name: MJ928s Angels Gate Hi-Railers, San Pedro, California http://www.aghrclub.org Moving Freight and Passengers from Point A to Point A for almost 1/8th of a century!
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by OGR Webmaster:
Matt, you're going to have to re-calculate your numbers because a diesel locomotive consumes a LOT more than 4 gallons per hour when in Run 8! That 4-gph figure is when IDLING! In notch 8 a diesel consumes between 150 and 200 gallons per hour depending on the model. The SD70, for example consumes about 190 gallons per hour in Notch 8. Even so, the steel wheel on the steel rail is still the most fuel-efficient mode of land transport there is. QUOTE] OK ... so if you're burning 200 gallons of diesel per hour, what is the fuel capacity on modern diesel locos? GP |
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Great explanation...I learned something new today...something I always try to do! If at first you don't succeed....don't try sky diving. Tim |
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GP,
A modern road engine is around 5500 gallons varying a lot by wheel loading limits. |
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Around 10 days ago,I was asked to take a time freight out of Williamson,WV to Portsmouth,Ohio,with 730 gallons in each locomotive.
The train had two newer NS GE Dash 9's,and approx.4,200 tons. That trip is 112 miles,and on a fairly level route. I got held-up (stopped) to wait on trains coming out of single track for around 1 hr (idle time). The entire trip took 4 hrs.and 15 mins. to run point A-B with top speed of 50 mph. When I got off the train in Portsmouth,each locomotive had 320 gallons showing on the fuel monitor. These newer GE's hold 5,000 gallons of fuel. Collin "The Eastern Kentucky & Ohio R.R." |
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I was told once that NJT figures a 30 mile trip with a diesel push pull making local stops will use about 200 gallons. Of course, this assumes the worst case scenario: 40 year old gp40, station stops every mile or so, and a six car train. The good news is that even if the train is half empty (has 300 passengers), the miles per gallon of each passenger is 45. When fully loaded this would max out at 90.
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can anyone break this down to mpg?
I'm still looking for the magic #. Not idling. Maybe in city and in country  |
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If you take Glenn's example above of 30 miles divided by 200 gallons that equals 0.15 MPG. Rich Melvin doesn't state MPH but if we assume 30 MPH and 190 gallons/hour that would be 0.157 MPG. Colin's train used 820 gallons to travel 112 miles = 0.136 MPG.
Rand Give me fuel. Give me fire. Give me that which I desire! |
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There was a news report a few months ago about fuel consumption on NY Metro North (former New York Central.) They quoted Dan Brucker the Metro North spokesman as saying the current diesel powered commuter trains used 7 gallons per mile. These are Genesis style dual mode engines pulling 6-8 cars. |
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You can't come up with a miles per gallon figure for a locomotive the same way you can for a car. Your car is always pulling the same weight around, plus or minus a couple hundred pounds, depending on how many people are in it. Because of its relatively high power to weight ratio, its MPG figure doesn't change much between flatland running and driving in the mountains.
Trains don't operate that way. The weight of a train behind any given locomotive (or set of locomotives) could be 1,500 tons one day and 15,000 tons (or more) the next. Today it could be running 70 mph in throttle position 4 on a division running through the flatlands of Nebraska and the next day assaulting the Front Range of the Rockies at 10 mph in throttle position 8. Obviously the MPG figures calculated for each day would be very different. How different? Try this... Two SD40-2's in Run 4 at 70 mph are consuming about 120 gallons per hour total for both units. That train is getting .583 mpg. Those same two units slugging it out climbing a grade in Run 8 at 10 mph would be using fuel at a rate of 330 gallons per hour, getting all of .03 miles per gallon. |
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