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The O Gauge Railroading On-Line Forum 3-Rail O-Gauge Trains Humidity: I know it has been asked before, but its that time of year.|
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Yes. Try to keep the humidity below 50% at all times.
..... Dennis Motor City O-Gauge Railroaders I'm retired. Now I work at being a pain in the butt. |
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Mike,
I wish someone would get an extensive thread going on best climates for modern trains with electronics. I live about 50- 70 miles from you depending on where you are in Baltimore on the Eastern shore. The RH(Relative Humidity) has not been to bad this year compared to years prior. I could put you to sleep by telling you the problems that higher RH can cause within homes that are not climate controlled properly, mainly in wood flooring. I am in the permit process of putting up a building for business and trains. I will be running trains on the second level. I am more concerned with temperature fluctuations than anything. I imagine on a fall evening of running trains that become warm as the weather changes to cool could cause some condensate within the trains. I may be going overboard, but I am going to try to maintain a constant temp and RH to preserve what I have as long as I can. Most everything I own is from 98 up and most of it from 2006 and up. So lots of electronics. Of course maintaining this may cost me. Thats the part that concerns me, as it could get expensive to climate control a 14'x56' area. |
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The biggest concern when it comes to preservation is RH and rate of change. Electronics are pretty robust under 100 degrees when being stored and most people in your neck of the woods don't have that issue.
Dennis's comment about 50% RH is a good average place to be. Typically museum collections like to be in the 40-60% RH range. Too little humiditity and the rubber drys out. Too much and then you have rust and corrosion. Consider rate of change though too. If you can design your space with proper insulation, proper vapor barrier protection and a good dehumidifier and can keep the rate of change to about 3-5% per 24 hour period in the RH range, the temperature will not matter so much as long as you are in the 55-80 degree range. I have the opposite problem. RH today was in the 15% range. Rubber dries out pretty quickly as a result. Jonathan Peiffer Modeling the NY&LB in Arizona Still counting rivets ... always so many to count |
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Buy an air conditioner. No ifs, ors or buts. A/C will keep the humidity around 25~30%. Just because we haven't had a real summer yet doesn't mean it won't arrive. And if/when it does, there will be a rush on high efficiency A/C units.
Forget leaving the window open. It's an open invitation to a rain/wind storm blowing. Say hello to your better half. Bill |
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The East Coast can get humid. Get the AC! Now in Houston we call AC's life support.....
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Remember too low a %RH you may get the dreaded static electricity. You all know what happens when mixing static electricity and electronics...POOF! In areas with very dry climates, you may actually need to add moisture to your air with a humidifier. Heaters during winter will also dry out the air.
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Ok so now that we have answered the question about what the Relative Humidity should be kept at(40% to 60%)...........
How do you go about it? I will install my room air conditioner tonight. But what about for rooms that are not so simple to maintain the RH. Basements, Attics? Lets hear your horror stories and successes! Share your ideas about what you have done. That Train she's a special streamline ya know, and she's fast. That trains so fast, the hobo's don't mess with that train. They just stand by the track with their hat in their hand. -- Tom Rush, The Panama Limited |
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As ETOYTRAINS pointed out, at 15% RH, static becomes a serious issue. If you don't want a humidifer, invest in some antistatic materials - a floor mat, shoe straps, a wrist strap, a coat - whatever it takes to keep the path of least resistance between you and earth ground, not you and the trains. Bless God, America |
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Mike, my 12 X 8 Fastrak layout has been in my Florida garage for three years with no A/C or dehum, with no problem. All my engines are PS.2 or TMCC, stored in a display on the wall when not in use. I think we worry too much. It's 80 degrees and 70% humidity out there right now. Run the trains and enjoy.
 David |
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When I worked on the ships it used to get bone-chilling cold in the computer rooms. When asked why, I was told "It's not for your comfort, it's for the electronic equipment". Sure made a good alibi whenever I wanted to get out of the heat and head down to the waterfront to cool off!!!
I have a small window AC mounted in a hole in the wall. It quickly cools down the train room as it gets rid of the humid air here in southside VA. |
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Mike, I agree with the votes to buy an AC. The trains will love it and you will love it. The new generation of window units cost almost nothing to run compared to units made 10 to 20 years ago.
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Well we have a new Heil AC unit/furnace, plastic in the crawlspace, the area under the house is dry. But in the back of the house, bedroom areas where trains are kept, humidty hovers at 50-60%. At night it seems to rise oddly. Since we have a well air conditioned house and no basement, a window unit would not make sense. The train room has no windows. Just can't understand the 60% humidity and damp sour smell...like a wet dogooor sometimes like dirty metallic smelling water. No pets, no leaks. The smell gets in clothes too...you can wash them..they smell great...get out in the heat and they smell totally gross and sour.
~Michael TCA, LCCA, TTOS, NASG, LOTS, LRRC, MTHRRC. |
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An average 8000 BTU wall mounted AC should do the trick in your equivalent 1000 s.f. space. Look for an EER rating of higher than 10 for better efficiency. Not terribly expensive and certainly worth the investment!
Jonathan Peiffer Modeling the NY&LB in Arizona Still counting rivets ... always so many to count |
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Mike W;
It sounds like you might have a mold problem. Chuck TCA, MTHRRC, Atlas Golden Spike Club (Charter Member), Weaver Collectors Station |
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Mike, I recommend that you call your HVAC contractor asap to verify that your new system is functioning properly. It might be worthwhile to have a professional home inspector that specializes in mold/mildew issues investigate the problem. Matt |
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You probably have an oversized unit for the cooling season. It good to have relatively long run times before tstat shut off at set point satisfaction. Longer run times helps extract maximum moisture from the air. Short cycling caused by too large a unit for the square feet condition, causes high humidity levels. It cools it down and shuts off before much serious dehumidification takes place. Get several competentent contractors to come in and give you a diagnosis. In the smelliest areas, get a LG brand dehumidifier(HD sales them) and get it running set it a 40 %. I own two LG's and one Sears. Sears is crap. LG's are much better. I keep one in crawl space, one in garage, one in basement at lake cabin. |
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AC is great when the temperature is high enough to turn it on. But at night when the temps are down the humidity is still there. The best bet is a dehumidifier, it runs based on humidity, not temperature. With the electronic controls on the newer units they're a breeze to set. The one negative is that if you don't have a handy drain you have to empty the water container frequently. When not using a drain mine can fill up overnight.
Roger B. |
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Mike, you've been in my basement. Before I bought a dehumidifier the humidity in the summer would get as high as 75% down there, and everything would feel damp. Especially boxes, they would feel limp and damp.
I attached a cheap garden hose to the coupling in the back of the unit and ran it to the sump pump hole to drain. That way you don't need to worry about emptying the drip bucket every day. I set it for 50% humidity and it stays within +/- 3% of 50. I only have two air vents in the drop ceiling for air conditioning and I keep them closed in the summer since cold air sinks anyway, the air escaping the vents keeps the basement cool and dehumidifier keeps it dry. Just using the air conditioning was not enough to keep the humitity down. Since the duct work was above the drop ceiling, the cool air would stay in the room and the cold duct work would gather condensation and drip onto the ceiling. The dehumidifier solved the problem. It also provides the air circulation that is needed to keep humidity down. Brian President, Chief Executive Officer Penn American Railroad "Serving the Basement" Northern Central High Railers |
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Very humid here today. I have my basement humidfier running at about 3/4 throttle and it has the humidity down to 40%. it felt so good in the basement I stayed down there to watch the U S Open golf tournament while I did some train things.
..... Dennis Motor City O-Gauge Railroaders I'm retired. Now I work at being a pain in the butt. |
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Ditto with Dennis tho I M in Meeeechigan also but West Mich.
My single dehumid (new) in base't will pull the humid from 55 to 45 in 90 min if need be. Now I set it at 50 sometimes bump it down to 45..... One of those digital weather stations very accurately calls out humid and temp, quite sensitive. System for AC system in house----- Central air in house, set at 76 but will click it lower at times. Keep blinds shades drawn on sunny side except when wanting the extra light. All rooms have their outlets open, so house balances out. Ceiling fans in larger rooms as needed. Keep a $20 oscillating 3x fan for extra air movement in basement, so air goes circular one direction Dehumid drains by hose to sump pump Furnace air fan only, is controlled by air cond demand with tstat on first floor. Note I DO return basement air at 50% and supply air from furnace AC whenever house calls for it. HOWEVER I have put on an auxiliary fan control that is settable at 15" intervals giving fine control to air throuout house when no AC is called for. Believe it is a Gosselin and made in germany. About 4" x 1" with its own clock and 96 little latches that you push to determine when fan only is on. If tstat calls for cool (and heat in winter) the fan may already be on so just cool or heat is supplied. A great and low cost aux control. Thhhhaaaats AllllllalllllllllllllL F F F FOLKS!!!!!!!!! |
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Can this be accomplished by setting the T-Stat differential to 2 degrees rather than 1? We have the HVAC people up here often. Nothing seems to be wrong and I would assume they would welcome a chance to fix something and charge us. But they don't. I think some smell may be from one area of the house that needs new paint and carpet...the smell can move through the house. And perhaps the ducts need to be cleaned.
If you turn just the fan of the central air unit on...humidty of course rises and warm musty humid air comes out the ducts. Maybe its because we have a clapboard wood house. Perhaps we should clean it, wrap it up in that insulating plastic, and put some high quality vinyl or hearty plank up outside.
~Michael TCA, LCCA, TTOS, NASG, LOTS, LRRC, MTHRRC. |
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Mike,
If you haven't already done so, locate a HVAC online forum and post your scenario there. Search for a qualified home inspector or HVAC consultant that can locate the source of the problem(s) and recommend solutions. Ask your local real estate agent for names or check the home inspection websites for information/names. Matt |
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and Mike if U post to an HVAC area, be sure U tell em that you
are in one of the humidity central areas of the USA! Believe you may have posted prior that U have a crawl space below house? That alone can account for higher humidity and 'bad' air thanks to molds, mildew, etc. Over time that same crud can get into the walls and grow also...... Much luck- L Lars in Meeeechigan USA Originator of foam for model RR scenery, see article in RMC mid '74... favorite song " Imagination"... is funny, it leaves a cloudy day sunny...." just keep on 'imaginatin'... OR 'you can't change things for the better. You can only change things..' |
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My friend is a real estate agent and she said you can't trust mold inspectors...as they will always find mold and either offer to fix or refer you to someone they know. If you smell it, its there. What I need is someone that can tell me where it is and how to fix it. I though about a dehumidifer built in-line with the duct system.
~Michael TCA, LCCA, TTOS, NASG, LOTS, LRRC, MTHRRC. |
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Never under estimate how miserable black mold can make your life. I'm allergic to it.
I doubt an AC unit can get the humidity to 15% in Maryland. We have a one story ranch with basement. The only logical place to put the de-humidifier was near the sump well, which is near our bedroom. It kept us up at night though. So I put it on a heavy-duty timer. Being it had electronic controls it would loose the settings I had it at. Also when the power went out. I then bought a unit with a manual humidity setting and all is good. Michael    |
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Crawl spaces are notorious for collecting humidity. You can throw pea gravel and plastic down, stuff insulation in between the floor joists, put in expensive vents that open and close based on temperature -- and still get dampness and its accompanying problems. I lived in a house with a crawl space once, and it was once too many. The humidity always made the house feel hotter, and the A/C had to be run more to get rid of it, which could make it too cool. Dehumidifiers upstairs are a pain, since you have to empty the buckets. For me, a good dry basement is required for a sound house. (Slabs are OK, I guess, but after a day in the office building, another concrete floor is not what I want to stand on.)
Keeping a moderate humidity level really is key for comfort and preserving things. |
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That's funny because some inspectors probably say the same about lousy RE agents. 
Get a second opinion.
That won't eliminate the current mold and your electric utility (and HVAC contractor) will be mighty glad to see that unit installed.  Hope it works out for you. Matt |
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