I purchase more over the internet than at retail locations for gifts, dvd's, books and electronics, hell I use to sell cars over the internet.
Soo...now
I buy all my train merchandise over the internet, PERIOD

I buy from 4 dealers regularly and 2 every now and then. Now that I have them sorted out, for they all have quirks of some sort, I have tried to expand my circle, but to no avail.

On the good sites:
Pros: Do it 24/7 365
Know whats in stock
Know what your bill will be including shipping and you can track your shipment
Updated inventory as its depleted


On the haphazard sites:
Cons: Send an Email inquiry and no response, guess they don't want the business. Or place an order and you can't get a hold of them again.
Place an order, they take your money and then buy item they advertise in stock for a 2-3-4-5 wk delay.
Go so far as to make a phone call and its an inconvenience to do business with you.
Post it on website, don't have it and won't get anymore. Must like pics.
Don't update website.
Website hard to navigate. If that's the case they are off my list fast.

Now I know most of these dealers are small, however when you are on the net you become worldwide and you don't know where your next customer will come from, it could be me. Just ask Jim at Jim"s Trains

Just my 2 cents worth

You've listed a lot of reason for and aginst buying off the internet. Please let me post a few more.

When you can't get it to work it is very easy to get help, NOT.
When it arrives damaged repairs or exchanger are easy to come by, NOT.
When it brakes it is easy to ger repaired, NOT.
When you just have questions you can always find a friendly person to talk to, NOT.
There is always somebody willing to find that item that you missed the order period for and that cannot be ordered, NOT.

When all of the local businesses go out of business because you chose to do your ordering off the internet you will have the satisfaction of knowing that this is a dog eat dog world and if somebody can't or is unwilling to get with the program they are better off out of it, YES, YES, unfortunately how true.

quote:

When you just have questions you can always find a friendly person to talk to, NOT.
There is always somebody willing to find that item that you missed the order period for and that cannot be ordered, NOT.

When all of the local businesses go out of business because you chose to do your ordering off the internet you will have the satisfaction of knowing that this is a dog eat dog world and if somebody can't or is unwilling to get with the program they are better off out of it, YES, YES, unfortunately how true.

I wish that this was true of my LHS, but unfortunately it's not.

It changed owners about a year and a half ago. Not too long after the owners bought it, I walked in the door and bought a Legacy system. I then bought a couple hundred dollars worth of rolling stock on subsequent visits.

Naturally, by that point, they knew me, and things started going down hill.

This particular shop also hosts birthday parties, which get their full, undivided attention.

One day, I stood at the counter with about $300 worth of merchandise(Atlas cars) waiting to check out. I caught the attention of one of the guys working there, who told me they would be right with me. 10 minutes later, I walked out the door and left everything sitting there.

On another occasion, I came in and asked them to order an NYC Legacy GP7 for me, and call me when it came it. I was assured that they could get one, and left. Two weeks later, I hadn't heard from them, and called-"Oh, we couldn't get it, sorry." So, giving them another chance, I said "okay, get me any other Legacy GP7 you can, and call me when it comes in." Two weeks later, I received an angry phone call asking me why I hadn't picked up my engine, which I had not, to that point, even been informed that they were able to obtain.

Finally, one other instance of 15 minutes standing at the counter with merchandise and no one even recognizing that I was there sealed the deal. This particular shop will not be getting any more of my business. I've talked to other people locally who feel the same.

Jim's Train Shop is the model of how to run a mail order business. He's thrilled to have your business, regardless of how big or small it is.

I've ordered regularly over the years from four well-known dealers. All are nice and polite and overall, I have trusted them to do the right thing. 95% of the time, I've had no trouble. However, it is important to mention the negatives:

1) One dealer sent me the wrong item (a heavy, powered locomotive instead of the non-powered unit I ordered), admitted the mistake and apologized (was no big deal), but then did not reimburse me for the return shipping. If I had the chance to do it over, I'd keep the engine until he sent me a return shipping label. I know this dealer has good intentions, but I'm leery of ordering from him again.

2) One dealer has messed up the last TWO orders I've place. Sent first package to the wrong address then next time, sent the wrong items and then.. questioned ME as if I couldn't remember what I ordered.

3) Another dealer failed to reimburse for shipping on a return item. Like the first dealer, I didn't make an issue of it with him, but it left a slight sour taste.

Since all this, I've come to have considerable respect for Jim at Jim's Train Shop.

I thought this topic was going to be about Professionals and Con artists. Maybe its the same thing anyways.

I think we are confusing method of selling and integrity of dealers. There is no reason a dealer can not sell on the internet and also have good service. In fact an internet presence may be the key to survival for this and a lot of other kinds of businesses. Even Walmart has an internet presence. We have found things otherwise not available, ordered it and picked it up at the store.

We have also purchased major appliances on line and saved around 30% which translated into hundreds of dollars. I had a warranty issue and a repair man was sent out and promptly remedied the problem. This comes from the factory service department anyway not the store. We have purchased things from local stores and have received poor or non existent service. We had trouble with some radio Shack purchases and they pretty much gave us the finger.

The fact is the world has changed in the last 40 or so years and vendors have to adapt or die. This is just the hard reality of it,not that I like all changes.

Dale H

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HOSO&NZ:
When you can't get it to work it is very easy to get help, NOT.
When it arrives damaged repairs or exchanger are easy to come by, NOT.
When it brakes it is easy to ger repaired, NOT.
When you just have questions you can always find a friendly person to talk to, NOT.
There is always somebody willing to find that item that you missed the order period for and that cannot be ordered, NOT.

this can be said about brick and mortar stores as well as Internet stores. if a business is run by a person who actually understands how to run a successful business (which in my opinion is a lost art today) then location, real or electronic makes no difference.

In a lot of the country, Internet/phone/magazine ads is the ONLY way to buy O gauge trains. The nearest train store worth mentioning is a three hour drive from where I live - and it's tiny and somewhat eccentric. Denver is the only place I am aware of in the West that has a good selection of train shops. If you don't live in Pennsylvania, or one of the major metropolitan areas in the East and Midwest that has one or more high-quality dealers, you have no choice but to order from an Internet dealer.

The truth is that there are good and bad internet dealers and there are good and bad local dealers........and many of them are one in the same (the good LHSs also run good internet businesses, the bad internet businesses also run bad local businesses and vice versa).

There is no rule of thumb.....while it's great to support our LHS, some of them simply don't deserve our support........and chances are they are also the guys running the shoddy internet businesses.

Rod

I agree with most of the above with respect to one internet or LHS or another.

I like to see, feel, hear what I buy which usually cannot happen in this hobby.

My automobile costs significantly exceed $1 per mile. Most decent LHS aren't local but are many miles out of my way even when part of a general shopping trip. Once to order and once to pickup? And how do I know when to pick up?

Inet orders are delivered (abandoned really) at my back door. Without further intervention after the order is placed. And the usual issues of pricing.

I would prefer to buy at a good LHS, even paying more but when all is considered I do most of my buying on the net since Joe's in Farmington closed. On the rare occasion when I am in the NE quadrant of Metro Detroit I check out Wild Bills, Great Lakes, and P&D and buy in-stock items there.

I deal with three -- Doherty's Whistle Stop, Jims Train Shop, and AMHobbies.

Pros:

Good prices
Good service
Reasonable shipping
NO RIDICULOUS CALIFORNIA SALES TAX!


Cons:

Gotta wait a week for the item to get to the West Coast.

Ive bought many from internet due to fact of No LHS that deals in trains other than a handfull of HO pieces.A decent Hobby shop close to me in KC area is 75 miles and have driven there a few times but hardly worth the trip if I only need one piece or some little item.Ive had no real problems with anything from internet buying so far.Plus by buying internet items I have less impulse buying just because I saw it and it was there so I bought it because I liked it items and save money and actually get facts and research before purchase.
My Topeka LHS was very nice and accomodating when I built and flew RC planes and I had a large fleet of them as he was an Airplane guy and always willing to help and even go flying with me at the field,but when I switched hobbies to 3 rail trains he clammed up because trains arent his thing he says and when I go into his store his stock of trains is less than minimum and he doesnt like ordering for you unless its for a RC plane.The other Lawrence store when the owner was running it was a great guy and would get anything he could for you and would talk trains all day if you wanted,but now is 87 and son runs the store and all hes interested in is RC cars.So the internet is my viable option to get what Id like to have.

When I can't get items from my LHS, I go online. I try to to buy from online dealers that have a small hobby shop- like Jim's Trains and Dixie Union Station. These are two of the best hobby shops that I have dealt with. I wish they were closer to me so I could visit them.

quote:

Originally posted by AGHRMatt:
I deal with three -- Doherty's Whistle Stop, Jims Train Shop, and AMHobbies.

Pros:

Good prices
Good service
Reasonable shipping
NO RIDICULOUS CALIFORNIA SALES TAX!


Cons:

Gotta wait a week for the item to get to the West Coast.

Matt, that's tough. I get next day delivery from AMHobbies and Justrains of Delaware. Jimmy usually gives me three to four days delivery.

quote:

Originally posted by ChessieMan:

quote:

Originally posted by AGHRMatt:
I deal with three -- Doherty's Whistle Stop, Jims Train Shop, and AMHobbies.

Pros:

Good prices
Good service
Reasonable shipping
NO RIDICULOUS CALIFORNIA SALES TAX!


Cons:

Gotta wait a week for the item to get to the West Coast.

Matt, that's tough. I get next day delivery from AMHobbies and Justrains of Delaware. Jimmy usually gives me three to four days delivery.

Yeah, it's rough. The longing and anticipation of that new O gauge item. But then there are the benefits:

• The joy of ripping open that shipping box.
  
• The dumbfounded looks of co-workers who don't get it.
  
• The smug knowledge that despite shipping charges, I saved a bunch of money.
  

quote:

Originally posted by HOSO&NZ:

When all of the local businesses go out of business because you chose to do your ordering off the internet

Probably all that needed to be said. Folks will have saved a few bucks flying all over the internet for the lowest lowest lowest price and then moan and groan about "Another Brick and Mortar Shop closed"

They'll blame it on bad management, apathetic owners, 'cranky old men' and blah, blah, blah.

Half these shop owners are cranky because they are sick and tired of folks coming into their shop to pick their brains for product knowledge and then turn around and buy on the internet to save $18.00 and spend nothing in the store.

They get even crankier when you bring the internet purchase into their store for more help.

There are plenty of badly run stores, and the reasons may be less obvious than you think. Unless you have actually run a business and been responsible for paying those bills and meeting a payroll, you just don't know.

I've only had one REALLY bad experience with an online seller, who listed an engine then left on a three week vacation w/ no word in the sale about his vacation. Needless to say when it hadn't come in 2 1/2 weeks I was beyond mad w/ no responses to any messages so I filed on him. Well, he got home 3 days later and threatened to drive down from Colorado and whip my *** in writing. He no longer has fleabay priveleges

quote:

Originally posted by HOSO&NZ:


When all of the local businesses go out of business because you chose to do your ordering off the internet you will have the satisfaction of knowing that this is a dog eat dog world and if somebody can't or is unwilling to get with the program they are better off out of it, YES, YES, unfortunately how true.

Never understood why the LHS could not match another internet store price + our local sales tax. Lots of internet stores are LHS, brick and mortar.
Sure local sales tax ups the price...happy to pay it.... because I could see and buy it "right then and there".
One time I discovered an LHS that had "two" price lists; one internet (lower) and one for walk-in customers (several bucks higher).....maybe they made up the difference in shipping....but that ended my patronage.

I'm not talking about "frequent buyer discounts' or "club member discounts". I'm saying TWO different prices for the same item on the shelf.

Another time found an LHS had two price lists...one for walk-ins and one for "friends"....since it was a "friend" that suggested I make my purchase at that store due to the "price" he paid, I went there and was disappointed when I could not purchase at "that" price...I did'nt bother telling the LHS I was a friend Of the "friend".
There are LHS that play too many games with pricing. Word gets around....when one guy pays one price and another guy gets a better price. Yep it's a business. BUT...if it's not conducted fairly...local patronage will suffer and the doors close.

quote:

Originally posted by HOSO&NZ:
You've listed a lot of reason for and aginst buying off the internet. Please let me post a few more.

When you can't get it to work it is very easy to get help, NOT.
When it arrives damaged repairs or exchanger are easy to come by, NOT.
When it brakes it is easy to ger repaired, NOT.
When you just have questions you can always find a friendly person to talk to, NOT.
There is always somebody willing to find that item that you missed the order period for and that cannot be ordered, NOT.

When all of the local businesses go out of business because you chose to do your ordering off the internet you will have the satisfaction of knowing that this is a dog eat dog world and if somebody can't or is unwilling to get with the program they are better off out of it, YES, YES, unfortunately how true.

With the traffic around here, it's actually easier to order from "in town" and out of town dealers by phone. I have a local dealer who is close and is a good retailer but is a few miles over the state line. When the gasoline prices shot up, I found it cheaper to order from him by phone to save gas and state tax. But, he is still close enough for the occasional visit.

There are three local stores carrying Lionel and MTH, but they do not stock everyting like the internet dealers. If you don't pre-order from the local dealers, you are forced to go to the internet dealers. (if your dealer does not normally stock Atlas or 3rd Rail, the dealer is charged a very high price for the item if he orders an Atlas or 3rd Rail item for you. Of course, that high price is passed along to the customer.) No one in my area stocks Atlas O or 3rd Rail (most of the locos and rolling stock that I buy), and I must buy these items from out of town dealers.

My experience is that regardless of the method of selling, there are pros and cons of each. I actually favor online stores, but of course there are some that I have had problems with and would not do business with again. For me some of the larger internet places just seem to have a better selection and a better price then any shop located near me. I've been lucky to have gotten great service from the online companies I buy from.