Greetings.

There is a lot of discussion about the current make up of the TCA Eastern Division York meet. Many think that the private club's biannual meets do not (1) generate enough revenue for comercial dealers and (2) does not do enough to grow the hobby among the unitiated.

For those who stongly feel that a change is needed, I respectfully suggest that you consider supporting the Great Scale Model Train Show instead. To see the detailed discussion regarding the change, please read this thread.

I don't want to see York as we know it end. But if folks feel very strongly that York is not enough, the GSMT show is the best solution, IMHO.

I've been to several of these shows and the problem many of the folks on this forum will find is that it is an overwhelmingly HO, G, N, and 2-rail-oriented venue. The 3-rail pickings are relatively slim, and compared to York, its like visiting a local show, despite the overall size.

It would take many years of pressure and attendence to convince 3-R 0-gauge manufacturers, large-volume dealers and just plain folks that this is a viable alternative.

I for one am not so inclined, so I'll just keep heading to York.

Just want to add that this show is much closer to a major airport, Amtrak and nice restaurants.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave0462:
I've been to several of these shows and the problem many of the folks on this forum will find is that it is an overwhelmingly HO, G, N, and 2-rail-oriented venue. The 3-rail pickings are relatively slim, and compared to York, its like visiting a local show, despite the overall size.

It would take many years of pressure and attendence to convince 3-R 0-gauge manufacturers, large-volume dealers and just plain folks that this is a viable alternative.

I for one am not so inclined, so I'll just keep heading to York.

If the O scale vendors move en masse from York to the GSMTS, that will not be an issue.

I'm afraid that I have to agree with Dave0462. Every time I've gone to a GSMT Show, it's been a big disappointment. Even though I live about a 45 minute drive from Timonium, it's just not worth the effort. First, the handicap parking is so far from the main doors, you feel like you need to call a taxi. The reason most of us with handicap tags or placards have them is because we can't walk long distances. And what do they do? They put the handicap parking down by the stables. And there are no places to stop and rest. So you hobble along until you get to the dining area. And like Dave said, O gauge pickings are slim, at best. Except for the layouts (which I enjoy seeing no matter the gauge), it looks like a flea market. Although I am primarily a modern era operator, I still like browsing through the Silver, Blue, Red & White halls at York to see the older items. Some of them are very well preserved. But, there's also the occasional exhibitor that is asking "steak" prices for "hamburger" quality items. I look, I chuckle to myself, and then I move on. With all it's faults, York is still the "cream of the crop" of the shows/meets that I have been to.

quote:

that the private club's biannual meets do not (1) generate enough revenue for comercial dealers

What dealers can't generate enough revenue? York is is by far my best show I wouldn't give it up for anything. Maybe the post war guys are feeling the pinch but nothing is going to change that.

You go to GSMTS this October and I will go to YORK.
Maybe this time I get to actually talk to the Lionel or Weaver represntatives.
I guess OGR magazine will be at GSMTS and I will surely miss stopping by their booth.

I spend $300 to $800 each time that I go to York, and most of that is on new stuff (dealers!!). I'm probably a light spender compared to most that go.

So which dealers do you think are regretting going?

- walt

No show will ever top York. Many good Forum members have been very nice showing us other shows that exist. Every upcoming York season has the usual list of moaners who give bogus excuses why they do not go to York. They range from the price of gas to no rooms in York available. Be real. Whatever extra you might pay for gas does not come close to the real money you will save on trains at York. I have attended 56 York shows and have yet to hear of anyone who could not get a room. I know a guy in the Boston area who uses all those excuses and the real money is the fact his wife will not let him go and spend money. We have many Members who do live far enough away for traveling to York. That is understandable. We also have members who do have other legitimate reasons for not going. Last York, I conversed with a very nice man from Canada and another from San Diego. Special nod to Bill Lucas from Ready to Roll Trains in Miami. He drives from Miami. That to me is what seperates the real train guys from the wanabees.

I have attended non York shows for many years and have seen some good ones. I enjoy York for the following reason. I enjoy talking to all the people from MTH and the MTH President (who has been to all 56 York's I have been too and more), Joe from Weaver, Atlas, Williams, OGR, and sometimes the Lionel President (I have seen many in my time) shows up. York gives me the best way to get first hand information.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Marty Fitzhenry,

After looking at their web site, it's clear this is just another HO - N - toy show. A few decent O dealers like Ma & Pa, Public Delivery Track and MTH. We have a show like this up north at Springfield. The only reason I went to Spriengfield this year is Charlie Ro, Joe Grzy.. and Justrains were there.

I buy from these folks at York. If they choose to skip York, I'll just have to give my money to someone else.

Tony
Up on "The D & H Bridge Line"

quote:

Be real. Whatever extra you might pay for gas does not come close to the real money you will save on trains at York.

As many times as I've been to York, I've only occasionally found that to be the case. If York is all about the deal, more so then not you'll find far better deals at home on the computer or in some cases like me, at your LHS.
For those who attend as a hunt/mini vacation/stress relef, York offers the best bang for the train buck you'll ever find anywhere..
Joe

Well put Joe.

I'll post up an opposing opinion here, BUT, the organizer of the Timonium shows (Howard Zane) had to be dragged kicking and screaming into allowing 3 rail toy trains in his shows! (Hence why there are not that many 3 rail dealers)

3 rail stuff is really not very welcome at what has been billed as one of the biggest scale shows in the east. Heck, even 2 rail O scale is looked upon with some suspicion. (I know this from experience. Ask a vendor for O scale stuff, he'll most often tell you "I don't sell toy trains" in a rather gruff manner.

As for the toys comment, well, I was at one of the summer shows, when a NASCAR die-cast dealer was kicked out for not selling train related items.

I'm with the maority on this. The best part of the show is geared to everything but O. And the "big" vendors selling O at this show are the small vendors at York. Still it's not a bad show if you can't get to York, but I usually pass, and save my spending money for York!

The best thing is that the GSMT Show is always the weekend before York and you can enjoy both shows. The GSMT Show is always a good show for layout details. There are alot of layouts at the GSMT Show and you can take pictures. I've gotten alot of good ideas from the modular groups at the GSMT show. Take the week off and enjoy Both Shows.

NO 0, NO ME.................. york is cool,but its not all that.Its good for those rare items that you cannot locate at your lhs,or internet.I went there once and I was satisfied.I might go again,if I can get off work.

quote:

Originally posted by strt-fireman:
The best thing is that the GSMT Show is always the weekend before York and you can enjoy both shows. The GSMT Show is always a good show for layout details. There are alot of layouts at the GSMT Show and you can take pictures. I've gotten alot of good ideas from the modular groups at the GSMT show. Take the week off and enjoy Both Shows.

Thank you for your comments! Now tell me again agents of change, why is it necessary to chage the Eastern Division York rules?

Go to TRAINFEST in Milwaukee, November!

Chessie Man;

Some people p*ss & moan about a few certain rules at York. The ones that seem to get the most complaints are:
1) No cell phone usage in the halls. If you receive a call, you have to step outside to talk to your caller. (This one I can half-way understand. People have a tendency to shout when they have reception problems. But I imagine there are other reasons, too.)
2) No cameras. No taking pictures in any of the halls. (I would appreciate someone telling me why this rule is in effect. I know it's their game and their rules, but it would be nice to be able to understand the reasoning behind it.)
3) No strollers. Little children have to be carried. (Someone told me this is because of insurance restrictions. Apparently, if they allowed the strollers, the insurance carriers would consider it an extra hazard and the premiums would be significantly higher.)
There may be some others gripes but these are the main ones. Like I said, their game, their rules.

I agree with Jim, go to Trainfest in Milwaukee. It does not have the problems that we all talk about regarding York. It is centrally located in the heartland of the US, readily accessible from both coasts. And it is not a small town off the beaten path. It has great transportation access, numerous motels and just about anything else you could want. Let the TCA do their thing and we can all leave them alone to run their show the way that they want.

Art

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Chugman,

I have always liked Milwaukee. My first time there was while in Navy Boot Camp. We took the North Shore in November 1962 to Milwaukee. I might do that show.

Two GREAT things about Milwaukee that York will never have:

1. Fantastic beer.
2. Miller Field (home of the Brewers).

Milwaukee's OK.

quote:

3) No strollers. Little children have to be carried. (Someone told me this is because of insurance restrictions. Apparently, if they allowed the strollers, the insurance carriers would consider it an extra hazard and the premiums would be significantly higher.)
There may be some others gripes but these are the main ones. Like I said, their game, their rules.

I think I have a solution for this one.

Place the little kid(s), (small kids can fit two to a chair) in a wheel chair and just roll on in. There is no age restriction on wheel chair passengers is there?

Charlie
Chesterfield TOOG

Hello!Hello!

The York meet is and has been for decades the biggest and best toy train meet in the country and maybe the world! I doubt if that'll change anytime soon. Personally,I like it fine the way it is.

I can already hear the howls if the York meet ever shuts down.

As for me, I say good on ya Eastern Division.

I challange those who claim that they don't like the York meet to do the work necessary to come up with a better one. They can't and they won't, at least not anytime soon.

Ted

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But if folks feel very strongly that York is not enough, the GSMT show is the best solution, IMHO.

Wait a minute!! Is this Candid Camera??!!