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Scott:
I understand your position 100%, and I agree with TrainPop when he says you did nothing wrong. I don't agree with the orange glasses comparison. Look, every manufacturer makes mistakes. At least Lionel has honored their committment to the Acela long after the warranty expired. It is too bad this was not communicated to you before you sold these units at a substantial loss. I remember a day at the TCA museum presentations when Mike Wolf announced PS2. I asked him if there were any plans to produce a portal for PS1 locos to take advantage of his new leading edge technology. The answer was a resolute NO (they later changed their position). I did not get angry, I did not vent on a public forum, I used my dollars to express my displeasure. Train America Studios did have an excellent answer to remote control for PS1 engines called a conversion to TMCC. Do I bad mouth MTH, no. Do I occassionally buy a product they produce, yes. And buy the way, I totally agree with you about Jerry C. and how he interacts with his customers. I always enjoy your posts and I enjoyed meeting you at the Forum night. What makes this Forum great is the different opinions expressed. |
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It was a promise made to me by Lionel personal at York several years ago. They came to the OGR Thursday at Fridays event,they sat at my table and told me that they had almost completed the redesign of the coupling. Over the next summer the plan was to bring the sets back in stages for the retrofit. I was quite satisfied that they were taking action. However what transpired instead was the Legacy Scott Smith[ |
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Standing by your man is very admirable, Chuck, but if you read Shane's original post, Scott HIJACKED THIS THREAD and made it all about HIM!!! But as Marty said, WE SAW IT COMING!!!
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I was making a joke--however I am not the only one on this thread dressed in a parachute holding a bomb. Scott Smith |
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We have all probably made our choices within ourselves where we fall on this issue...I prefer to "side" with the HAPPY Acela owners...CUZ I WANT ONE!!! I saw one operate FLAWLESSLY...banking on curves...on a modular layout at Allentown when it first came out. It was like watching the most beautiful woman in the world!!! I DO NOT doubt for a minute you were summarily dismissed, dissed, and PISSED on by Lionel. I am sure the technology will improve to the point where Lionel will reattempt something similar. Regarding quality control in the Orient, that may be another matter of consequence to ALL the manufacturers. You personally, and a hand full of others, have a track record of BRAND LOYALTY which tends to make the rest of us temper your constant complaints...YOU have a guy on here AFRAID to open his box!!! That's NOT the purpose of the OGR Forum!!! I think perhaps the thing that sticks in your craw is the $3000. I NEVER pay list...or patronize LHS...I do all my shopping at AUCTION HOUSES where the initial set SEALED, sells for as low as $1200 with the addons. YOU made a VERY POOR BUY moneywise, and on top of that, got a LEMON. It was a DISASTER no matter how we paint it. I still screw up after 37 years...it is the nature of our hobby to get taken once in awhile. I wish I could make you not FORGET but instead ACCEPT. What else is to be said in this matter????
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So according to you, Lionel made a promise to you - privately. oh-key, dough-key then. |
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Since it was at a public gathering I don't know who else listened in. Several people asked what Lionel had to say about the Acela at the time. I do not give out my word lightly and I expect others to conduct business in the same way.I consider the consequences when I speak to my customers. I have on two occasions in the last two years written checks to my customers due to a carrier charging above the agreed amounts. Scott Smith |
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I, for one, DO NOT DOUBT your word Scott. If you say they promised to do something, then I assume they went back on their word...and I am sorry for that. My posts do not and will not EVER question someone's integrity...THAT IS CROSSING the Proverbial Line!!! |
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Is that anywhere near the Mendoza Line? |
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Despite some of the bad press, this is still a set I would like to own someday. I just havent come across one at the right price at the right time. Someday maybe.
I can understand how one can get a burr under his/her saddle over a slight (perceived or actual). Ive had similar experience that just frosted my cookies. |
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They should have just put on another SD50. Dash 8s are like cheap vacuum cleaners, they suck for a while and then they crap out. You say they're On The Water, I say they're Sur l'eau. |
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Who was the guy who claimed he smashed all of his trains with a hammer (including the Acela) because he got mad at what someone said on the forum?
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Frank53, |
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I like the looks of the SD50 but weren't they kind of sucky as well? |
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The SD50s only sucked in comparison to the SD40-2 which was the best locomotive of all time. You say they're On The Water, I say they're Sur l'eau. |
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Frank, I hope you and you're family are doing well. And that everything is going well in your life. Just for the record, I did tell people about that in detail a long time ago. But over time it has been exagerated a bit by some members here. You have been misinformed a tiny bit Frank. Yes, I did smash the Acela with a hammer. ALL of it I might add. NO, I did not smash ALL my trains. I run several Williams 027 Hudsons and a Heritage Deisal. None have ever had any issues at all, and have run top notch since day one. No. It had nothing to do with anyone on the forum or what they said to me at all. The reason I got angry enough to bash the Acela's little door's off is because I got fed up sending that damned thing back to L for repair constantly. I had numerous coupler issues, panto etc, to the point I was throwing money away left and right on it. I saw it as a "money-pit." I could no longer justify throwing money left and right at UPS and making them rich at my loss. The best thing I ever did was eliminate that piece of junk from my house. If other folks got a great Acela, I'm tickled for them and hope they enjoy it for a lifetime. However, for me, 3k was a huge expenditure for something that wasn't imho done right from the beginning. Yes, Lionel did in fact continue to repair it for me so long as I kept forking over money to ship it to them. But in the end, I felt like I was spending more money on the train, then it was truly worth. Those things are not cheap to ship when you get done with proper packing and insurance at the UPS store. Also, I would like to add that I was not about to stick anyone with a defective set by giving it away or selling it. I realize there were folks that would have purchased the set knowing full well what the issues were with it. But I was unwilling to stick someone else with what was my problem. Why should I curse someone else with having to send it back over and over just to have to keep throwing good money after bad? No, in my opinion I would have been screwing someone else over just so I could make a buck and get rid of my problem. I'll be damned if I'm going to do that to someone out there. No one deserves that. I also have a lionel ZW, that has to date been a great transformer. (modern version) Thank you for your time and have a great day. Back in the lurk closet for another year. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bagheera, Proud owner and operator of Williams Trains. |
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Even though Lionel was good about repairing or replacing what was needed, there was still the extra cost of shipping the unit[s] at my expense. I had requested shipping reimbursement and never heard a thing in most instances.
Had it fixed a few too many times for me to enjoy so off it went, with full disclosure to the new owner, including the original RA history with the sale. |
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Bagheera, why not get some money back by selling it?
On a side note, why did Lionel keep charging you for the repairs? It shouldn't cost you anything if something you purchased doesn't work in the first place. -Nicholas Anthony D'Alessandro |
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They weren't charging him for the repairs. It was the ongoing shipping costs sending the train back repeatedly to Lionel that was his issue. Most of the O gauge manufacturers (including Lionel) typically don't pay nor reimburse shipping fees burdened by the customer on items being sent to them for repair. |
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That should definitely be changed
 -Nicholas Anthony D'Alessandro |
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Nicky,
The repairs were constant and on-going with Lionel. They never charged me a penny to repair the issues with the Acela. However, the UPS store was getting to know me on a first name basis. For what I was spending on shipping repeatedly, I could have purchased some very nice trains with that cash. I did what I thought was the right thing to do at the time. I don't regret it. I will again say though, when the train ran, it was beautiful to behold. It truly was a thing of beauty. But when it failed, it wasn't pretty... As stated earlier. There are many that have had nothing but great experience with the Acela. To them, I say congrats and enjoy. but my experience was anything but great. It was a pure nightmare. Proud owner and operator of Williams Trains. |
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I call the Acela the Ugcela! Amtrak could have painted them in a better livery!
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The Acela prototype and Lionel Acela are beautiful works of advanced technology. I take the real Acela often when working on the East coast and it was the catalog with the Lionel Acela that brought me back into American O gauge from Marklin HO. I ended up ordering 2 and am totally satisfied.
The technology on the Lionel Acela set was pretty sophisticated for its time and I can imagine many new orders were screwed right from the start as they tried a "quick start" with the coupling mechanism and things were never the same. I can just imagine some of those fingers wrestling with the couplers and wishing they had bought 10 Williams locos instead. The Acela will go down in Lionel history as its rebirth in advanced technologies...and happily we all live thereafter or so I wish. |
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I would be more concerned with what is/was in that tank car rather than the merits/demerits of the SD50 vs SD40-2. Later Gator, Dave |
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RD, if you do not believe it then explain why several Lionel personnel commented that they do not want model "X" to be another Acela. Yes they are still supporting this unit at no charge well after the warantee period which is the silver lining in a poor performing consist. |
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I can't explain comments that were rumored to be made by "Lionel personel" but for me it's really very simple... every time I go down to the basement to run it my Acela works just as advertised .. the cars tilt.. the doors open..the pantographs go up and down.. the sounds and lights all work as they should! Other than when the disc brake rotor rubbed through the insulation on the pickup wire on one of the cars from running it so much there has not been one problem with my Acela...period!! So while I'm sure there are folks who had problems I'm not one of them .. and from what I've seen there are more out there like me who have run and enjoyed their models just the same.. but according to Scott we are all liars ..  RD Live the Dream! Own the Best! LIONEL!!! |
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You hit the nail on the head! My Acela works fine. Maybe Scott Smith should try the Lionel Little Lines Train Playset, but only after exhaustive training by his LHS. Then he could have something else to bash Lionel over for the next two years. |
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Has it been 2 years??? Seems like ONLY 5!!! Someone do a search!!! |
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ouch |
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Separating modeler from ready to run? This makes no sense. The Acela IS an out of the box ready to run set. Obviously one with some quality control issues from set to set, but certainly not a "modeler" issue. Did everyone build these from kits or something? Did Lionel send you the plans to scratch build your own? That would make it a "modeler vs. rtr" discussion. It's as out of the box as any other train set. It just seems reasonable to think that some work great while other had some serious quality control problems. I am happy for the ones who got good ones and disappointed for those who did not get a good one. Rather than make this such a toxic thread doesn't it seem reasonable to think that everyone who has owned this train could be telling the truth based on their own experience? Jonathan Peiffer Modeling the NY&LB in Arizona Still counting rivets ... always so many to count |
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It does. Unfortunately, there has probably been some embellishment to make these seem worse than they are, and likewise better than they are. Since I know Rich Demo, however, I know he would never embellish anything . . .  |
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If you want their names drop me an email (not for forum distribution.) For them to say it the number of issues and the volume has to be significant. |
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Playsets aren't in the store yet, I guess I'll settle with the engine I picked up this evening.  Scott Smith |
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Now that's one "brute" of a motor!
Jonathan Peiffer Modeling the NY&LB in Arizona Still counting rivets ... always so many to count |
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That's very nice... may I suggest thoroughly reading the instruction manual before removing it from the box!  RD Live the Dream! Own the Best! LIONEL!!! |
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Not even close Jonathan! The Acela is as much out of the box as any other train as a Ferrari is just any other car. The Acela is the most advanced model train ever made..to think you could just take it out of the box and run it without proper knowledge on how to do something as "simple" as coupling the cars is a prescription for failure. RD Live the Dream! Own the Best! LIONEL!!! |
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I said it many times before and I'll say it again, when a person pays good money for a product and gets a ton of grief from it they have a right to be angry and they should be allowed to express that anger. This holds true even if it is Lionel or anyone else.
Keep On Tracken, Mario E. |
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Unfortunately that is a true statement. To my knowledge, other than the forum, there was no information that the door mechanism needed lubrication and that the coupler mechanism needed grease applied to have it navigate O72. There was a flyer in the box illustrating the method to couple the cars. Without this forum (Mike at 2am one evening, thank you for my sanity) I would not have been able to have it navigate my O72 layout. I even had to reverse incline my curves to keep the cars on the track when I added the three addon cars. |
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I agree Mario..and I think that's one of the problems..he paid about $1,000 too much and now knows he got hosed by the dealer...but who's fault is that?? And when do you draw the line a year..two..five years?? Along the same lines shouldn't those who are happy with that product be allowed to express their joy without the same grinch pi**ing on their parade every single time...over and over again and again... This is just my opinion.... RD Live the Dream! Own the Best! LIONEL!!! |
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So buying at Lionel suggested retail price and supporting your local dealer by buying it from him is paying too much and is consider being hosed?? I am glad you cleared that up for me. Scott Smith |
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I paid the full price for the Acela, even though my dealer was stiffed by a customer. Yes they even offered a discount which I declined. Yes I can purchase on the net and pay less; however, I pay retail to support my LHS. When they go out of business, who will fix my trains. Customer service is an important quality and being able to see the engine and run it before purchase is not free and worth a premium price.
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And what about all those with PS1 engines? 2) If you buy a new in box Proto I engine from an MTH dealer and you have a problem--they still fix it under warranty. Scott Smith[/QUOTE] That statement is more than a little misleading. Had a person purchased a PS 1 engine for a MTH dealer, after only 1 year their warranty would be GONE. How many new in the box Proto 1 engines are sitting on dealer's shelves? I'd much rather have Lionel's 3 YEAR from date of manufacture warranty than MTH's policy of having only a 1 YEAR warranty from date of purchase. Yes, the MTH warranty says it begins on date of purchase rather than date of manufacture, but the net effect is that a MTH engine, before being purchased, would have to first sit on a dealer's shelf for more than 2 years (!!), before their warranty would exceed that which Lionel provides. If dealers' stock of MTH products sits on their shelves on average more than 2 years before being purchased, they sure aren't going to handle MTH products! And MTH would be down the tubes. So who has the better warranty? |
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Boy, I'll bet you'd be fun to play golf with. |
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What Mike did re: his Proto 1 engines was far worse, IMHO. In order to keep selling them, he publically stated that MTH wasn't going to make remotely controlled trains, because he didn't think there was a market for it. At the same time, we all know now that he was (to be kind) being disingenuous, because MTH was indeed at that time secretly developing their remote system. Lots of folks got stuck with their new Proto 1 engines, which at the time (and now only at significant expense) couldn't be converted to the PS 2 system. And of course MTH knew it. This message has been edited. Last edited by: OGR Webmaster, |
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Yep...you got hosed and you know it.. you can try to rationlize all you want. I bought my Acela and the 3 car add on from Tony at Americas Best Trains which is my LHS. He's been my local dealer since the late 1980's and has become a good friend. I buy 90% of my stuff from him and he has never charged me retail for anything. He has one of the biggest stores in the midwest and knows how to treat a good customer. As for turning down a discount offered by your dealer ..well I just don't know what to say to that.. RD Live the Dream! Own the Best! LIONEL!!! |
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I think this statement is wrong....the warranty is still one year for both Lionel and MTH from date of purchase. Except, Lionel soon will not honor the 1 year warranty three years after it was made. It's not a three year warranty. If you buy a Lionel three years after it's been made, even from a dealer, there is no warranty from Lionel at all. Brings up another point....How far away from extended warranties on trains are we? [QUOTE] The +$150,000 I have spent in this hobby over the last 10 years /QUOTE] Yea, I hear you! I had to cut my train budget too! Sucks doesn't it? |
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Congrats on the post of the month. |
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That was funny right there. |
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I agree, that was funny. I have to chuckle at this because after it happened, the next day when a friend came over to the house and saw what had happened, he looked at me, and all the broken plastic etc, and made the comment "D@mn dude, did we have a John McEnroe moment?" "Have you checked into Prozac by chance?" What can you say? Sometimes life requires a Thorazine drip.... This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bagheera, Proud owner and operator of Williams Trains. |
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