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The O Gauge Railroading On-Line Forum 3-Rail O-Gauge Trains How can companies that know nothing about trains...|
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be very successful at selling trains to customers that know nothing about trains? Yet expert hobby shops and serious manufacters like MTH and Lionel probably do not sell the same volumes as this company...who regulalry spends $900,000 for full page ads every sunday in the Parade or USA Weekend magazines.
http://www.collectiblestoday.c....jsp?RecentlyViewed# ~Michael TCA, LCCA, TTOS, NASG, LOTS, LRRC, MTHRRC. |
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No Union Pacific? What's up with that?
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Most of those Bachman locos are available for under $25 each.......
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The UP missing is probably due to having to pay licensing fees to Union Pacific which the others probably have not required to use their logos. Remember a while back the lawsuit between Lionel and UP. Happy Railroading!!-Don Klose
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Southern Pacific and Rio Grande are both under the Union Pacific licensing agreement. Perhaps they wanted to have a range of roadnames so they included the KCS instead.
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There are no significant licensing restrictions posed by UP thanks, in large part, to the efforts of Mike Wolf on behalf of the entire hobby industry several years ago. Allan Miller, Editor-In-Chief O Gauge Railroading magazine |
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Ya and Al Gore invented the internet.  Al |
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Don't forget Lionel was owned by a company that didn't know anything about trains either: General Mills. darn near ruined them.
..... Dennis Motor City O-Gauge Railroaders I'm retired. Now I work at being a pain in the butt. |
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You don't follow hobby industry news very closely, do you, Al?
Allan Miller, Editor-In-Chief O Gauge Railroading magazine |
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More than you I would say  Al |
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If General Mills hadn't licensed Lionel trains, the company very well may have folded. C.W. Burfle |
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So tell us, what is the real story behind UP backing off on licensing fees? C.W. Burfle |
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Thanks, C.W.! You beat me to it. That was the question I was going to ask.
Allan Miller, Editor-In-Chief O Gauge Railroading magazine |
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Al,
You are incorrect. Allan Miller is correct. UP no longer enforces royalty payments as a result of Mike Wolf's negotiation skills of several years ago. Lionel announced with great hoopla that they had secured rights to produce UP locomotives. Days or weeks later, UP and MTH announced the end of the royalty requirements altogether. I do believe UP does still have final approval on models, however. Fred -- Running the CC1 Berk with the Legends of Lionel Madisons -- |
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Yeah Al, just make something up, since you put your foot in it...Michael |
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While most of the early MPC starter sets were pretty bad and those plastic geared diesels were GARBAGE, by the time Dick Kughn bought Lionel, they were making some pretty good stuff. Compare a 1969 Lionel catalog with one from 1985. As early as 1973, Lionel's "Standard O" line of freight cars raised the bar over all previous Lionel freight car offerings save for the die cast 700 series cars from the late prewar period. If it weren't for those awful diesels, MPC was a vast improvement over late postwar in all but the low end starter sets. You say they're On The Water, I say they're Sur l'eau. |
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Here ya go, Al, a link to help bring you up to date:
http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=907 Allan Miller, Editor-In-Chief O Gauge Railroading magazine |
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Let's not forget the baby madision cars, or the mini-max car. MPC also did quite a bit with new paint schemes. The motor used in the early 1970's diesels were an improvement over the 200 series alco motors, even with plastic gears. I've run across motors that were so well used that the metal bearings were shot, and the gear teeth on the wheels were seriously worn, but the plastic idler gears were OK. Howeverm the plastic worm-wheel gear is known to come loose on the shaft. C.W. Burfle |
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1. Anything sold as a collectible, isn't!
2. Mike Wolf takes all the credit for the UP licensing agreements, industry insiders say 95% of the work was done when MW showed up and took the bows. Bob |
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Nothing like fireworks on the 4th of July.
Al |
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I dunno...if it weren't for General Mills...Lionel may not exist today. They were successful in getting novices into the hobby with their colorful graphics and starter sets.
~Michael TCA, LCCA, TTOS, NASG, LOTS, LRRC, MTHRRC. |
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Its can still be a collectible...perhaps this less so because they are simply Bachmann, but when a company develops its own products...they can have a loyal following...like with the diecast cars...and when for some reason one is cancelled...prices can rise on the secondary market.
~Michael TCA, LCCA, TTOS, NASG, LOTS, LRRC, MTHRRC. |
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The Mini-Max car (9090) was a cheapie but it had a prototype and is one of my all time favorites. Lionel should reissue it. The only change would be a little more weight. You say they're On The Water, I say they're Sur l'eau. |
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Let's see, if I spend $6,000 on 10 identical diesels with different paint schemes and lettering, plus $90 in shipping and handling, they'll give me a $75 display case? Sounds like a great deal.
 Bob "Scrap Iron" Ciminel "If God had meant for us to fly, He wouldn't have given us railroads!" |
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They charge $60 for the display case. As I posted earlier, they have a very good advertising staff. Buyer Beware! C.W. Burfle |
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I just wonder how well Lionel or MTH would do if they had some solid advertising in place around the holidays? A good advertising campaign can do wonders, and this offer is proof (and if you need more proof, just look to the late Billy Mays and the "Pitchmen" TV series).
If I were Lionel's ad manager, I'd look to possibly partner with Target to do a Christmas commercial spotlighting the Target-exclusive sets (and hopefully get Lionel's web URL in there as well). I'd also look at partnering with authorized dealers to advertise on a local level (like offering x amount of $ towards newspaper ads and y amount towards TV or radio ads). The real goal of advertising should be to reach the people who are not already in the hobby, like the people who had trains around the tree at Christmas during their childhoods and might like to revive that tradition (like me), and even if a small percentage decides that they want to pursue it as a hobby (again, like me), then the customer base has expanded. Andy TCA, LRRC, LCCA, Atlas Golden Spike, MTHRRC - "Diesels represent the job, steam represents the adventure!" |
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It would be interesting to see what would happen if Lionel hired advertising folks who actually understood what collectables today, and just about evry infomerical is doing. One of the big problems with "O" gauge trains are their high costs. Sorry, but $200 for a medium-low starter set is not a good value in most people's eyes. Lionel might try some direct marketings, with train sets sold piecemeal on a subscription basis. That is how Collectables Today is selling their overpriced HO trains. On informericals, it's almost always a bunch of "easy payments". They emphasize the monthly payment, but do whatever they can to minimize people noticing the number of payments required, or the total cost. Then again, I guess I am glad that the "O" gauge companies have avoided this sort of sleeze. I don't know how folks that are involved in these sort of businesses can look themselves in the mirror. C.W. Burfle |
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Ten times $60 is not $6,000. Arthur P. Bloom TCA 86-23906 "I love the smell of smoke pellets in the morning!" |
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>>> "How can companies that know nothing about trains be very successful at selling trains..."
It's the same with McDonald's -- they don't necessarily make the best hamburgers, but they're the best at marketing & advertising their hamburgers. Ed The 'Standard & O' RR |
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Arthur P. Bloom:
Ten times $60 is not $6,000.[/QUOTE I'm glad our school systen if not a total failure! DAVE ROBINSON |
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Did anyone notice that these are LIGHTED DUMMIES? No mention is made of motors.
Swav |
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Read the description, again...
Bachmann has been the exclusive supplier to Collectible's Today/Hawthorne Village HO and On30 products. Now that Bachmann has acquired Williams, I wonder how long it will be before we see similar offerings in "O" scale? I wonder how popular this set will be? |
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I did get a Hawthorne Village Civil War scene with 2 engines...and painted pewter soldiers that all go on a wood display base. Here it is:
http://www.collectiblestoday.c...srchexpr=north+south I think its really neat...but I got it for the overall display...and the pewter soldiers...not so much the trains being a great value haha. They are a legit and solid company to deal with...they just have a different mission in selling trains. Its more about villages and christmas scenes. You can't beat a no questions asked full refund including all shipping for 365 days after purchase. ~Michael TCA, LCCA, TTOS, NASG, LOTS, LRRC, MTHRRC. |
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True, lots of parents refuse to buy trains because of that. But then turn right around and pay $300 for text messages on their childs new blackberry phone...or Nintendo wii.
~Michael TCA, LCCA, TTOS, NASG, LOTS, LRRC, MTHRRC. |
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Its obviously junk - there's no Illinois Central.
 Michael    |
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It's twelve & one half times $60 with the base and shipping! Such a deal!  ---------------  |
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Actually guys it was my cousin Vinnie offering U.P an offer they could not refuse.  Really. It is true. |
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I guess you won't be seeing any BNSF logos on Collectibles Today/Hawthorne Village products ... maybe.
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I will tell Vinnie to go help Mike out. Badda bing!
 John |
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Wait a minute, I thought Mike Wolf had nothing to do with the UP agreement. Don't these brand wars get tiresome? |
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I guess they perceive $300 spent on a blackberry phone or a Wii to be a good use of their money, whereas $200 for a starter train set is not. When one thinks about the use a $200 train set would get, versus the use a Wii would get, I have to agree. I don't think much of blackberry phones, and don't see where 99% of the world has a legitimate need for one. Cell phones are nice to have handy, I like to keep my use down to one or two short calls per day. C.W. Burfle |
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