I recently bought a beautiful Postwar 2322. It (at least the shell) is in Excellent + condition, (and that may be a bit conservative)

It had a pretty good "shimmy" when operating down a straight. The e-unit was also a little sticky, one coupler needed some adjustment, and the rollers needed replacement.

I brought to a hobby shop for repair. Turns out an a couple wheels needed replacement, new axle (the old, bent one was causing the shimmy) and some other odds and ends.

Anyway...the cost was $130. Pretty fair considering the work done.

When I brought it home, it still had a bit of a shake. Not too bad, but I get kind of nutty with stuff like this and just needed it to run as good as it looks. So back to the hobby shop. When turning it on it's back and hooking up some leads to it, we noticed a slight wobble in wheels that were not replaced. To replace those maybe another 50$ I said "fine"

The shop owner gave me a look like he seemed not to agree with my need to get this engine running smoothly. He began to talk about how I could buy a brand new one for much less and have a bell, whistle, and electroninc e-unit.

I said, "yeah...but its just not the same for me" The fact that this loco is 40 years old is WHY I love it in the first place. It commands a greater respect (for me). Someone kept this work of art in amazing condition all these years.

What do you guys think about this? I usually do repairs myself...but pulling wheels and dealing with axles is a bit too much for me.

Does the original mean as much to you? Is it all worth it?

While I agree that the 40 year old locos are great, I have a 2035 and a 2037, I can't see paying 180 dollars to have that one fixed when you can buy a new one for that price. I'm having work done to my old ones and I'm only paying about 30 dollars for parts and labor. My locos have been with the repair guy for a while now but I have others to run in the meantime.

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The fact that this loco is 40 years old is WHY I love it in the first place.

My dad had some post hole diggers ever since I can remember. One year, one of the handles broke and he replaced the handle. A few years later, the other handle broke so he replaced that one too. Years later, one of the curved digging sides (clam shell?) busted and he found one to replace it.

One day we were standing in the garage and he said "You know, I've had that digger for over 40 years!". I had to chuckle because the only original part was the clam shell half that hadn't broken yet.

Anyway, I guess some of that rubbed off on me because I have some things that I would pay the money if I had to to get it fixed. I have an old Omega Seamaster watch I paid $300 for back in 1970. It needs a new spring and a few other parts. Last time I got an estimate it was going to be $150 to fix it, but those watches were going for a lot of money "pre-recession", plus it still means a lot to me (it was the first big ticket item I bought after I started working, next was an 1970 Opel GT for $3600).

In the end it's all up to you whether or not you want to spend the money.

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Does the original mean as much to you? Is it all worth it?

For you, it obviously does mean as much, for whatever reason, and it is worth it. That's really something only you can decide.

Personally, I prefer the newer trains, primarily for the variety that's offered in roadnames I prefer and for their "newness," but that's just me.

I still have a few items left from my postwar/boyhood years. The most notable of those is my 2321 Lackawanna Trainmaster (red roof)--the first individual locomotive that my late father bought for me. That locomotive would probably be considered the most valued item--by me--in the ocean of trains that I have today. It is in virtually like-new condition, appearance-wise and mechanically, because I cared for it when I was a boy and it holds great memories for me even today. If it needed repair, no cost would be too high.

The emotional attachment to a particular train item is not something anyone else can even comment on in a meaningful way because in every individual case it is only that individual's attachment that matters. You don't appear to have any nostalgic link to the 2322 you mentioned (you bought it recently), so whether the cost is worth it is truly something only you can determine.

Respecting and preserving the fine old postwar trains is important, and yes, I agree it's worth the money to fully restore them. Ask anyone on the forum who enjoys running 50+ year old engines; there's nothing quite like them. If you enjoy it, then it's worth the cost of repairs.

Some of us like to preserve things, others have bought into the modern "if it's broke, throw it away and get a new one" disposable mind-set. In the bigger scheme of things, I have to ask, why contribute to landfills and more industrial pollution? It seems more responsible to repair things, and only throw away the parts that are truly worn-out and useless (and recycle them if possible...).

Repair cost isn't everything. Repairs may be expensive, but can still cost less than a new item. If you own it outright, then repairs may definitely make more sense -- especially for for well-made things like postwar trains that, once fixed, stay fixed for years.

-Eric

I think the old saying "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" applies here.

If you are happy with the product or service for the price you paid, then you got a good deal. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

Another old saying comes to mind: One man's trash is another man's treasure.

If you are going to spend money to repair an original item then you should think about whether or not you are getting repro or modern parts. You may be inadvertently spending money 'watering down' whatever you like about it being original.
I bought a nice 2331 FM at York a few years back for $500 and did not check the magne-traction, which turned out to be dead. I was able to find 2 postwar trucks with good magnets and for an extra $100 the problem was solved.
BTW, I have corrected wheel wobble on a couple of F3's over the years by rotating the wheels by hand and patiently and gently prying the wheels straight with a good screw driver.

I am one who loves restorations of older things, and in many cases the restoration does cost more than the original item or even a newer model of the same item. One can not place any monatary value on sentiment, therefore one pays whatever it is worth to them. Restoration does not in most cases increase the value of a given item since it is no longer in its original state. Sometimes we as collectors make the decision wheather we should keep the item in question in its marred or damaged state or have repro parts replaced those damaged parts. The art of restoring damaged items to their near original state requires a very skilled person and may be quite time consuming beside the research involved to complete the job. Restoration is not like mass assembly but usually a one on one job. During the early years of importing brass models, most importers shipped their brass models unpainted. The customer who wanted their model painted had to find someone capable of doing this job, to me I was very suprised that the custom painter did not charge more than what I paid at the time (1980s Ca.) $75 $80 N ga. $90-$120 HO and approx $200 O gauge.
Just remember these models had to be dissambled, cleaned and reassembled.
Karl

Although not my cup of tea, I appreciate the old postwar trains. They hold a certain nostolgic appeal for some, and like antique cars, I enjoy seeing them in pristine condition.

The bottom line is that if it's worth it to YOU, and you enjoy it, then by all means go for it. Once it is fixed, it is highly unlikely you will ever have to fix it again in your lifetime.

One of our Forum experts on postwar is our friend Frank53. His layout is an excellent example of what can be done with postwar trains in a realistic setting.

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When I brought it home, it still had a bit of a shake. Not too bad, but I get kind of nutty with stuff like this and just needed it to run as good as it looks. So back to the hobby shop. When turning it on it's back and hooking up some leads to it, we noticed a slight wobble in wheels that were not replaced. To replace those maybe another 50$ I said "fine"

Yikes! I am glad that I do all my own work.

The new stuff is just that, different. Some people like the newer stuff better. Some like the older better. If you like the mystique (you know what I'm talking about), the noise, the way it runs, and all that, then go for it. I have a couple of modern engines, and a whole lot of prewar and postwar. I prefer the old stuff, so I know where you're coming from. If you have the money, hey, do it.

I used to build newer components into original (1985-ish) IBM PC/AT computer cases because the newer stuff didn't have the same mystique. It's been 10 years since it was practical to do that, so I don't anymore. Some people thought I was nuts, and some people (usually people who were into computers in the 1980s) thought what I was doing was really cool. Same mindset, I think.

Im a big fan of those PW FMs. For the $180 though, maybe you could consider that much money could get you pretty well set up with the tools to completely rework PW locos. A wheel puller, a press and some original PW parts and there ya go!

I hope for the repair price that PW parts were used as opposed to modern FM wheels.

If you are lucky and your 2322 happens to be the version with the blue painted onto the shell (opposed to bare blue plastic)you have yourself a valuable loco!

No disrespect meant, but if you are going to keep buying these older engines you should learn how to repair them yourself. By doing this you will get several benefits. 1. when you are finished with the repair you will be sure it's done right. 2. You will save a tub of money in the long run and may be able to make money by doing repairs for people locally. 3. Each completed repair will give you a nice sense of accomplishment, which never hurts.

I think that what you are doing is great. But I'm just the opposite and have my original Lionel set that no longer runs and which I have no desire to get fixed. I keep it for sentimental value and because I promised my mother that I would never sell it.

I quit Lionel because of the "toy train" look and their having Lionel Lines printed on every car. The modern sounds, command control, and prototypical cars and engines available brought me back about 6 years ago.

I think it's great that we all can enjoy this hobby in different ways.

Art

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Originally posted by beertrain:
No disrespect meant, but if you are going to keep buying these older engines you should learn how to repair them yourself. By doing this you will get several benefits. 1. when you are finished with the repair you will be sure it's done right. 2. You will save a tub of money in the long run and may be able to make money by doing repairs for people locally. 3. Each completed repair will give you a nice sense of accomplishment, which never hurts.

No disrespect taken at all.

I usually do most repairs, but when it comes to wheel pulling, I don't trust myself. Perhaps I should get myself a junker and experiment.

When i repair an older bicycle that looks like it is going to be alot of money and time i allways give the owner a call and ask the same question. I feel its my responsibility as a mechanic to let the owner know all the options first and than go from there. There are plenty of people who dump lots of money into a bicycle repair because they want to keep their "baby" running as good as new.
Besides the store owner was doing his job informing you of other choices. He had no way of knowing if you knew about modern reproductions.
Bill

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I quit Lionel because of the "toy train" look and their having Lionel Lines printed on every car. The modern sounds, command control, and prototypical cars and engines available brought me back about 6 years ago.

Boy, I could have sworn that most of my postwar did not have "Lionel Lines" printed on it.

Sean S....

The bottomline is you're spending some of your money to preserve history... nothing wrong with that....

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Originally posted by beertrain:
No disrespect meant, but if you are going to keep buying these older engines you should learn how to repair them yourself. By doing this you will get several benefits. 1. when you are finished with the repair you will be sure it's done right. 2. You will save a tub of money in the long run and may be able to make money by doing repairs for people locally. 3. Each completed repair will give you a nice sense of accomplishment, which never hurts.

About all I buy anymore is older trains and even though I am able to do most repairs, I usually take them to the shop for convenience. I am limited with time and the time spent messing with something on the workbench is time away from my family, my train running time, charities I volunteer with and other activities I would rather do instead of spending time in the garage.

sean

As I see it, the glass is half full here.
While you may spend a little money, you have saved a little money by the work you were able to do.

I have two interests with respect to this hobby.........a little Postwar and fully modern, command control.
I like both.

When I decide to take a 50 year old engine on, I do my best and continue until it's the best I can make it. Always happy with the result even if I needed some help and spent a few bucks.

Regards
Dave

All the wheels,axles, and bushings can be found from vendors. Ask around and find a local guy who has a wheel press and get him to pull and press your wheels. Get it done right and save a bundle over shops.
Rob

You're lucky to have a reputable repair man that advised you before he did the repairs. Whether you have him repair the train or not, don't sweat it if you end up paying more than the train is worth. They aren't meant to be investments. As long as you're happy with the train when it's fixed, that's all that should count.

Fixing and cleaning up old trains is a very enjoyable hobby in itself. I like bringing an old beater back to like-new condition. It's a rewarding feeling to know that I did it myself.

Postwar toy trains have heart: they were built to last for generations and they were built by Americans who had just fought and won our biggest war.

These toys have a cultural meaning for most of us that we seldom think about. They connect us with the greatest generation that made everything good since then possible.

Restoring them when possible is a small way to honor the people who made them for us.

How will our children feel about todays models if any of those models survive?

My philosophy: I am not perfectionist. There is a tipping point somewhere where cost outweighs nostalgia. Unfortunately, I haven't found it yet. I often think of the previous owners, probably a kid, who ran the item and I have the privilege of using it now, but at some point, that privilege will be transferred and so I keep the train going for the next person.

Best,

Mark

I think the general tenor of this thread is correct, and that is if it is important enough for you to want to shell out 180 bucks to repair it, then do it *shrug*. It would be different if you asked 'is it worth getting this repaired monetariy, as a collector's item' then most would say no. But if it is something you like and enjoy, then it is worth it. Even if you could buy another example from the same period in better shape for less, it isn't the same locomotive.

The same is true of a lot of things, especially with cars. I have yet to find someone who 'made a killing' fixing up an old car, when you add up the time, the parts and the rest that went into making the car 'new again', it usually is a loss in the end (even the guys on the car auction shows will admit that). But when emotion is involved? As they used to say on the Sopranos, "fuggadaboutit".

It's a hobby. The definition of hobby is "spend the money if it makes you happy."

Personally, if I were the shop keeper, I wouldn't turn down any work, and I certainly wouldn't try to dissuade someone from spending his money.

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I think the general tenor of this thread is correct, and that is if it is important enough for you to want to shell out 180 bucks to repair it, then do it *shrug*. It would be different if you asked 'is it worth getting this repaired monetariy, as a collector's item' then most would say no. But if it is something you like and enjoy, then it is worth it. Even if you could buy another example from the same period in better shape for less, it isn't the same locomotive.

When I was doing repairs, I don't think I ever had a person ask to have an item returned as-is, even after telling them that the cost of repair would exceed the value of the piece.