Thanks again to a train pal, yet another train has shown up on my doorstep. A nice Lionel CC2 NYC Niagara is now on my bench waiting to get EOB'ed and weathered.

I am hoping to put together a reasonable NYC mail and express train to justify this engine's eventual presence on my layout. A quick Google-ism yielded this lovely shot courtesy of madisonrails.railfan.net:



I am looking for suggestions on what readily available O gauge/scale cars would help to assemble such a train as pictured above. I have about a dozen or so Lionel Pflauder-type milk cars and was hoping to get some use out of them. I'm thinking that the acquisition of some Atlas express reefers would make sense too. I'd really like to get a few baggage/mail or other LCL-type cars and was hoping to get some suggestions. I definitely wouldn't mind repainting and decaling anything that would make a reasonable representation of what might have been pulled in a train like this.

Perhaps someone else has some photos like the one above?

Norm,

Lionel had a 5 car set of NYC milk cars released as part of the CCII add-ons. These turn up on the bay frequently. There were also 3 separate sale cars released with the same NYC gray paint scheme. That would make 8 different numbers available with the milk cars in NYC.

Lionel has also made several 18" NYC baggage cars. At least 1 is in multi-tone gray scheme and there is at least one in NYC green. Trainz on the bay sells these separately from the sets with regularity.

Don't forget K-Line, there must be at least 1 NYC set out there.

Oh, and MTH and has them in green, too.

I personally run mine with one of the NYC reefers and 6 of the Lionel multi-tone gray heavyweights. I like the look of it because it's more colorful than the green ones

Can't wait to see your next effort.

Fred

Golden Gate Depot has some nice NYC scale coaches out, and will be issuing (due September ?) NYC "head end" car sets (baggage, RPO, combine) that should look great behind your Niagara. Just remember, by the early 1950s, the NYC was letting the Niagaras get pretty dirty. Weather her accordingly.

Atlas O express reefers.


http://www.atlaso.com/images/53woody/1107/3002006-4_TQ.jpg

Weaver Ex Troop sleepers.


Weaver B60b Baggage cars:

Excellent, thanks Fred, Jack.

Were the Lionel NYC cars fully correct? I thought the NYC cars were like 53'6" or something. I have a couple of the add-ons I believe.

I'm wondering if I could repaint one or two of my K-Line 18" PRR baggage cars. I also have an RPO kicking around somewhere. Any decal source suggestions?

Jack, I'll look at the GGD stuff but I'm not going with any coaches. For my layout, express trains make more sense. And yes, this one's going to get dirty!

Nice suggestions, Kim! Now I've got stuff to hunt for at York.

B60b baggage?

Great idea Norm. I recall reading that the Nigaras were mainly used on the mail and express trains while the name passenger trains were handled by the Hudsons and then diesels.

I saw the pre production samples of GGD's head end sets and they are nice. The cars with windows will have them flush mounted.

Norm - Please don't make us wait for the whole train - show us the Niagara as soon as you get her on your layout.... Most of my engines would like to summer vacation at your place....

Love my 3rdrail niagara. While they never ran on the B&A, I'm looking forward to running my MTH B&A madisons behind here. Norm, you can always do Freight.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: superwarp1,

Well, I've been sort of fascinated with the mail/express trains for awhile. Now that the Pennsy express cars have been well-represented on my layout with purchases from MTH, Weaver, and Atlas, I think it's time I get busy putting together a train for the NYC.

I had a visitor to the layout one time point at my Pennsy express train and exclaim, "Now that's a money maker!"

Those GGD cars are nice. Wondering if I could mix roads a bit? I have a Link photo somewhere showing a New Haven car behind a J. Is it correct to think these types of cars got around a bit?

I spent Thursday night cleaning out the airbrush. I'll post the Niagara here in the next few days when it's done.

Gary, geez, that picture is so RAD!

Yes, head end equipment was interchanged frequently. I now own a GGD coach set and three sleepers. I like them a lot.

Chessie Man,

When first delivered, the Niagaras DID handle the NYC "name trains", especially the Empire State Express, which go too long for the ESE Hudsons to maintain the schedule. As more and more passenger diesels came on line, that's when the Niagaras were demoted to lesser passenger trains, express trains, and freight service.

Norm,

You better have at least one coach or combine on the rear, for the crew (Conductor & Flagman) to ride in! Unlike the PRR, which had specially out fitted cabooses "assigned to Railway Express Agency" service, the NYC didn't do that. NYC just put a coach or combine (with markers, naturally) on the rear end of their express/mail trains.

Norm:

From a prototype modeling perspective, so take the neurosis level as far as your personal level...

Mail storage cars (the majority are baggage cars) freely interchanged, and REA stuff was often run in mail trains (carefully segregated from mail cars by law) so

Weaver PRR B60 baggage is good.
Weaver express box (ex-troop cars)
Atlas/Middle Division X29 express version
Atlas REAs
Golden Gate B70 baggage in PRR

Pfaudler glass-tank milk cars are pretty specific to milk service (because of the tanks). On NYC, milk usually traveled in their own trains, not mail/express trains, so the Lionel milk cars wouldn't be generally correct on a mail. Your call, of course.

The NYC fishbelly milk car was intended for cans, and didn't have tanks, so they're common in express service. NJ/Custom Brass made them in 2-rail so they can be had.

The NYC baggage you're thinking of is a bit of a problem, as no-one has done them (other than Precision Scale in brass) since the All-Nation/JC metal kit. These are not hard to find, and build up to be OK/decent with care.

A coach or combine bringing up the rear as a rider car is something you'll need for a typical NYC mail. There was a beautiful kit for either done by American Standard, again for the 2-rail folks. They can be found.

Reasonable stand-ins that aren't quite correct would be the NYC lettered Golden Gate coach, baggage, and postal. The Weaver clerestory postal and baggage fall in this category, too.

Bear in mind this is what would be typical (not cast in concrete each and every time) in NYC practice. The kits mentioned appear from time to time on the bay or at two-rail shows (Denver PA show 09AUG might yield loot, for example). Ping me off line if you want to pick the brain further.

Hope it helps,
Brian

Here's a shot you don't always see.




Dare I say the word, LASHUP?

Excellent info, thanks again dudes!

Brian, I seem to recall a photo on the internet a while back showing a Niagara pulling a train of Pflauderesque cars. This popped up when guys were trying to justify the introduction of Lionel's set.

As for RPOs and baggage cars, I do have a MR article somewhere on mods made to an HO baggage car to more closely resemble the prototype. Could prove to be useful as I obsess over putting this together.

While not prototypical for the NYC, MTH makes a nice R50B Express Reefer (#20-94073). I have one and use it.

No thanks, I'll stick with those in Pennsy!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Norm Charbonneau,

Mail trains are a great idea for a few reasons. In the early 50's many steamers that pulled the varnish in the 30's and 40's were regulated to this duty in the late 40's and 50's. They are also much shorter in length and look much better on curves. For those of us that like to weather. These cars weren't washed like the passenger cars they were often mixed in with.
I have a video of NH's flagship steamer. The I5 Hudson pulling a mail baggage train of various roads. Converted troop sleepers as well as baggage cars. Of all things at the rear. Not a combine or coach. But a N6 class caboose. If I move my era into the early 50's I have a pretty much prototypical train with whats available from Weaver and Atlas.
The Weaver baggage cars are really nicely detailed. I have a few in various roads. While the LED lighting is a nice effect at the trains rear I've pretty much removed the lighting boards as well as rollers from these cars. They certainly roll a lot more easily. The other nit pick is the couplers. They were constantly coming uncoupled. Especially seeing they were often at the head of the train. A little work with some brass stock and mounting Kadee's were a snap. I made them truck mounted. They track well and are now much closer coupled. Plus they stay coupled. A couple of pics. One showing a NYC baggage. These are available in 4 rd. nos.



This photo shows them coupled.



Norm, I've been buying Pennsy, NH, and NYC cars. Just couldn;t resist the Weaver Canadian National car. What a beautiful scheme. Almost a shame to weather it. By all means mix and match this consist.

The B60bs with clerestory roofs are correct for NYC? If so, I'll add them to the list.

quote:

Originally posted by Norm Charbonneau:
Those GGD cars are nice. Wondering if I could mix roads a bit? I have a Link photo somewhere showing a New Haven car behind a J. Is it correct to think these types of cars got around a bit?

I spent Thursday night cleaning out the airbrush. I'll post the Niagara here in the next few days when it's done.

Gary, geez, that picture is so RAD!

That "rad" effect was caused by the camera having a slotted curtain shutter. The curtain had various width slots according to the desired shutter speed which moved from the bottom of the camera toward the top. As the exposure was being made the train moved toward the camera thus causing the parallelogram distortion. The camera used was undoubtedly a Graflex or Speed Graphic.

I have the Emery Gulash NYC videos Get MANY converted troop sleepers.

quote:

Originally posted by techie:

quote:

Originally posted by Norm Charbonneau:
Those GGD cars are nice. Wondering if I could mix roads a bit? I have a Link photo somewhere showing a New Haven car behind a J. Is it correct to think these types of cars got around a bit?

I spent Thursday night cleaning out the airbrush. I'll post the Niagara here in the next few days when it's done.

Gary, geez, that picture is so RAD!

That "rad" effect was caused by the camera having a slotted curtain shutter. The curtain had various width slots according to the desired shutter speed which moved from the bottom of the camera toward the top. As the exposure was being made the train moved toward the camera thus causing the parallelogram distortion. The camera used was undoubtedly a Graflex or Speed Graphic.

It is amazing what kind of a sound my curtain shutter makes on my Speed Graphic when it goes off. Great effect when taking train pictures though.

quote:

Lionel had a 5 car set of NYC milk cars released as part of the CCII add-ons. These turn up on the bay frequently. There were also 3 separate sale cars released with the same NYC gray paint scheme. That would make 8 different numbers available with the milk cars in NYC.

Here is one on ebay right now. http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-NIAGARA-MILK-TRAIN-SET-6-317...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem there is a reserve though.

quote:

Originally posted by Norm Charbonneau:
Excellent info, thanks again dudes!

Brian, I seem to recall a photo on the internet a while back showing a Niagara pulling a train of Pflauderesque cars. This popped up when guys were trying to justify the introduction of Lionel's set.

As for RPOs and baggage cars, I do have a MR article somewhere on mods made to an HO baggage car to more closely resemble the prototype. Could prove to be useful as I obsess over putting this together.

Norm:

Niagaras pulled milk trains, too. Several milk trains ran into New York City daily, such as the "Rut Milk" (so named because it came down the Rutland from New England and was handed off to the NYC Harlem branch). The milk trains from Upstate New York usually came down the West Shore line or the Hudson Main, and these would be the milkers that might have a Niagara at the pin as far as Harmon.

The point is that milk on NYC was rarely (if ever) mixed in with a mail/express train, a train that is a very different critter.

Couple other things as I read the thread:

The R50b is a viable car for a mail/express (one I forgot about).
The Weaver B60 with