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Nice catch Bear. I just hope I never have to see the insides of it!
If you know what I mean! |
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Great story, and truly a monumental piece of history...I echo your joy!
C'mon Lionel or MTH...Milwaukee Road 261! Heath B. |
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Bear, THE BRUTE is by far the most impressive loco I've ever seen. Although I don't run that gauge I'd love to have one and a set of State passenger cars. Congrats to you.
Wild Mary (AKA Nick, AKA Charles Nichols) "Riding The Wild Mary" |
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Bearlead,
You should show it off at our Holiday Show! It's the closest some of us will get to one |
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Bear, I got mine the other day.
I posted in the tin plate forum directions for getting it unpacked and on the track single handedly! Enjoy! There is an issue with small paint chips that two of us have discovered. It will be interesting to hear if yours is so afflicted. Enjoy! |
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Bear:
If you can't come up with a way to slip it past Jophie, you might want to ship it here for safe keeping. I doubt it would clear the supports on my overhead loop, but it would be safe here. Enjoy it! |
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Hi, Bear.
I did not see you at York last month and hence, you did not get a beer. With all due respect, I don't understand why you would be making a big deal out of a bottle of cologne like BRUT (by Faberge) just arriving, and post it here on a train forum. Am I missing something here? I beat you to it Farmer Bill. Enjoy the new engine. Erol |
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Erol,
BRUTE al Bill |
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Congratulations Bear! That thing is a monster. I don't run standard gauge but I still love this engine. I saw the picture that Scott Smith posted of his. He mentioned something about paint chips also. Hope that is not a problem with yours. Happy railroading!
Ray |
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Bear, You mentioned that you saw both the chrome plated version and the green colored version before purchasing yours. Curious as to how both appeared visually compared to one another. I am trying to decide between the two. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks... Michael |
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The second version of the Brute is not chrome plated. It is a dull zinc plating that replicates the current condition of the one and only original Brute. That one was zinc plated during its life in an attempt to stop the deterioration of the original.
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I stand corrected as far as the plating color goes, but I still want to know as to how both appeared visually compared to one another.
Thanks... |
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John G Xfer Yard,
Great idea, I will do that. I've never reserved a table, and I'm not sure if it's too late to do so now. If so, maybe someone who isn't using a full table would be willing to share. I would appreciate your coordination and suggestions. To those who mentioned paint chips....yes, I did notice that mine has at least one relatively prominent paint chip on one of the rounded hoods. I assumed that it might have been damaged as a result of post painting or post assembly testing or something like that and maybe due to "over articulation" as it occurred in the area where the square cab is articulated from the rounded hood. Has anyone complained about this to MTH? I just figured it was a random ding, but now since others are reporting it, it makes me suspicious that some inspection or testing procedure at the factory or at MTH is the culprit. Pat Marinari....I am touched by your generous offer to keep my Brute safe until I get my new dual O/standard gauge loop laid and can finally spirit my Brute into the basement while Jophie is out shopping! Erol...."I came to bury Erol, not to praise him!" (Et tu, Brute?!) Do I get a raincheck on the beer for April? PRRBill....you da best, man. Missed you guys at York. Unavoidable, but I won't let it happen again, promise! Are you speaking to Peter Condro again since game 6 of the Series? Duke Michael, good question. I did not see the silver one next to the green one last April at York, because Tom at MTH was still testing the the silver Brute pre-production prototype at MTH's plant in MD, and they had the green one in the Orange Hall at York. I seriously agonized about which one to buy. If I were a rich lawyer like Erol, I would have purchased one of each of course. I finally decided on the green one because I want to get some reproduction green State Set cars to match the Brute. The silver/zinc/chrome/whatever version is a stunning, stunning piece, no doubt about it, and you could pull a set of the gold-trimmed silver Millenium President's Special cars behind it. I know, I know, the President's Special was American Flyer and the Brute was Lionel. Nonetheless, that would also be a show stopper just about anywhere you ran that consist with the silver Brute. Now we need to sit back and wait to see if MTH will build a set of larger (appropriately) sized green State Set cars, and whether they will also do the Brute in Milwaukee Road colors! After all, the Brute was a model of the Bipolar electric! Now we're talkin'. Don'tShootYourEyeOutBear (it's almost that time of year again! Heck, It's a Big Tent With Room Enough For Everyone! |
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Bear,
Thanks for your thoughts. Has anyone seen the plated version next to the green version? Can you please supply me the dimensions for the Brute's outer shipping carton. Thanks... Michael |
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I'm sure we could find room for the Brute on the door prize table !
CHOO-CHOO MIKE |
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Okay,
I just have to ask...What is a Brute? And what exactly is standard gauge? Sorry if this seems stupid, but I really have no clue what a brute is.. Anyone have a picture or something on this? Thanks. Proud owner and operator of Williams Trains. |
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Check the Tinplate section of this forum. You'll find more info about the Brute than you'll ever want to know. And now there's even a video posted of one of the Brutes running (albeit on just a straight length of track because the fellow doesn't have a Standard Gauge layout). As for "Standard Gauge"--that was the creation of Joshua Lionel Cowen, who wanted his early trains to be distinguished from those made by European competitors. The track measures 2-1/8" between the outside rails (O gauge is 1-1/4") and the trains, while made to no particular scale, are significantly larger than their O gauge cousins. The Brute is a notable exception, since it's even larger than its other Standard Gauge counterparts. Allan Miller, Editor-In-Chief O Gauge Railroading magazine |
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Bear,
You are going to find that any of the current passenger cars are too small to look right with it. Look at the brute in the picture below next to my 400E. THe good news is that Mike said there will be passenger cars in February's tinplate catalog.
Hiding a standard gauge train is like hiding a Volkswagen in your home---you just can't expect to get away with it very long---Hiding the brute is worse it's like hiding an 18 wheeler. Scott Smith |
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Thanks Allan, I will do just that in a minute. I honestly never even thought to do a search for it..Dumb on my part. I really should have known that.
Scott. Thank you for the picture. That thing is a monster. But very cool looking. It kinda looks like a huge version of a GG-1 on steroids to me. If that thing really weighs in at close to fifty-pounds, I would say that thing is a real "rail-crusher." If that thing ever derailed I would be afraid it would damage the track or at least pull it up. My god, you could probably pull d@mn near anything you want to with that and still have power left on it. That is truly impressive Scott. I bet that musta been expensive as all getout to. Obviously you have to have some major room to run that thing. The motors on that thing must be huge! And I don't even want to think about the hernia you can get from lifting that thing on the track that high up. Hope you have good health insurance! Congratulations on your brute, Scott and Bearlead. May it give you many years of enjoyment in good health to you both. Now I'm off to read about this thing. I could never have one, but all I can say is WoW! Way to cool. You and Bearlead obviously know how to party. P,S. Bearlead, great story, but you need pictures at the store and all. A great story needs pictures of you and the look on your faces when you saw this thing. A picture of this stuff is priceless. I just hope the pictures of you're wife beating you to death don't make the news. lol. I can see the headlines now, "Man killed by wife stuffing huge train down throat...film at 11!" ![]() This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bagheera, Proud owner and operator of Williams Trains. |
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Scott
How did you get THAT box into the house. Brad |
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My wife knew about the Brute---and she wasn't happy....
For those who haven't seen my wife's story of me getting this engine see this link: The Brute Chronicles with lots of pictures. Scott Smith |
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Et tu BRUTE!"
Art Poole |
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Hi Scott, I tried the link you posted. It says it is a facebook page, but that the page was not found or is an expired link. Proud owner and operator of Williams Trains. |
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YouTube version...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UiGNNLAh3E
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Hi Bear, I'm happy for ya and hope you enjoy your Brute. Good luck with it.
Keep On Tracken, Mario E. |
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Nice tinplate, but I still don't like sounds with tinplate
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Facebook links appear to expire. Here's a new one for the Brute Chronicles. http://www.facebook.com/album....5480223&l=e302915add
Scott Smith |
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Thanks for the link Scott. Great pics by your wife by the way. I have to say, the picture of you sitting on the floor with that thing in the cage really gives you the idea of how seriously big this thing really is. Good lord that thing is a monster. You know, I watched the video that SoCalStu posted a link to here, and from what I saw on the side of the loco it almost looks like there are two electronic wire strips that go from the top side of the roof by the panto's to the bottom of the carriage. Looks like a three wire strip that is brown in color..Almost looks like it should recieve power from the panto's.
But I may be wrong as to the function of these things, as they look a bit small, gauge wise to carry the power requirements this beast obviously would require. Also, I'm very sorry to hear that yours has a paint defect Scott...I sincerely hope it isn't to bad. Also, from the video I watched earlier, the sounds on that thing seem to be very clear. Horn is beautiful and cab chatter is awesome. That loco is a real work of art in my opinion. Simply beautiful to behold. Proud owner and operator of Williams Trains. |
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Bagheera,
The Brute is based upon the Milwaukee Road's legendary class EP-2, "Bipolar" electrics They were built by GE in 1917 and lasted until all but one were scrapped in 1962, a few short years before the 1973 demise of Milwaukee's electrification. The Bipolars did spend time on every part of the electrified portion of the Pacific Northwest extension of the Milwaukee. Nonetheless, due to some of their operating peculiarities, the Bipolars mainly served on the westernmost division of the electrification, from Othello, Washington west to Seattle. The Milwaukee electrification started at Harlowton, Montana on the east end and ended in Seattle on the west. There were over 600 miles of electrified trackage, mostly single tracked mainline. A non-electrified portion, "the Gap", was located in the center which extended from Avery, Idaho on the east, to Othello on the West. The electrification was prominent over the mountainous portions of the Pacific extension, in Montana, Idaho, and Washington. The operating economics of the water-powered electrification were so impressive that railroad planners and executives from all over the world came to see the Milwaukee's electrified system. Economics ultimately killed the Milwaukee's Pacific line as well as the Bipolars. It was not caused by the initially high cost of the electrification at all, but by the fact that the railroad had built from the Twin Cities to the Pacific considerably later than its major competitors. By the arrival of the Milwaukee, the Great Northern and the Northern Pacific were already well established with lucrative feeder branches throughout the Northwest. The Milwaukee ended up with the handoff revenue scraps and niches ceded to it by its competition, certainly not a formula for long term survival. The Bipolar prototype that inspired Josh Cowen to create the Brute as well as smaller scale standard and O gauge renditions of the same bipolar profile was world famous in the early days of the Milwaukee extension in the 1920s. The Milwaukee promoted the EP-2s as "the mightiest electric locomotives in the world", and staged "tug of war" contests against huge articulated steam engines to prove the tractive superiority of the Bipolar electrics. Compared to the pedestrian box cab electrics of the era, the rounded hoods and centrally located cabs of the Bipolars projected a streamlined image of modernity and speed. The Bipolars were used in both freight and passenger service, but excelled in the latter, often pulling the Olympian Hiawatha on its final leg over the Cascade Mountains into Tacoma and Seattle. The enormous tinplate Brute is the embodiment of the power and size of its Bipolar prototype, capturing the imagination of several generations of train lovers. Like its Lionel copy of the 1920s, only one of the original prototype Bipolars survives today, in the St. Louis (MO) Museum of Transport. There were only four 1:1 GE Bipolars built, which is an amazing fact when one considers the numbers of toy and model versions which were inspired by and built to look like the originals! That is great news from Scott that MTH plans to produce cars of a size appropriate to the Brute's dimensions. I eagerly look forward to the next Tinplate catalog from MTH/Lionel Corporation Tinplate to see what Mike Wolf has up his sleeve for a Brute consist. Thanks to all of you for your interesting posts to this thread. It is obvious that after so many years, the fascination and speculation sparked by the only prototype Lionel ever produced of this engine, there remains an incredible level of interest in this very special locomotive. BruteLovingBear This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bearlead, Heck, It's a Big Tent With Room Enough For Everyone! |
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Thanks Bearlead,
This is a very interesting posting, I too was anamored with the Bi-polar. Of course I don't have the big brute like this I bought the Lionel O scale 2007 EP-1 which has its ups and downs... but something about these locomotives make you say what the H*ll is that? Whow, and it runs on electric, and it pulls how many cars...that is cool... everytime when I pull this one out of the yard, if fires up the conversations... |
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FACTOID:
The NYC S-1 and S-2's also uitlized BIPOLAR motors. Art Poole |
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True, Beowulf Art, but those bipolar engines did not look anything like the Milwaukee's Bipolar EP-2s! They were much smaller and though they had central cabs and more sculptured noses, they didn't command the awe from train enthusiasts that the Milwaukee's gigantic locos did.
Here's a link to NYC's S-1s and S-2s: http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr085.htm BrutifiedBear Heck, It's a Big Tent With Room Enough For Everyone! |
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