Good Afternoon (AZ Time).

I took some time to get some photos together to compare the various manufacturers of scale GG1s.

We start with all the motors in a row. From left to right we have a Lionel JLC, a Weaver, a Williams, and a Proto 2 MTH. These were chosen since they are all single stripe and Brunswick Green.


Now Looking at the individual locomotives in the same order you will note the following details of each:


The Lionel JLC is a formidable model and is the only one commonly available one with the FARR intake filters high up on each end of the hoods. (Eliot - Sorry I didn't back to you sooner on this). Many consider it a aesthetic violation. It was done by the PRR in a program from the late 50's through the 60's on several GG1s to prevent fine particles of snow from being sucked off the track in through the filters and shorting out the motors. It happened twice in PRR history and it crippled passenger train operations.


The Weaver model is brass construction with cast wheels and a plate frame. It was the first mass produced scale GG1 yet it is still a very fine model. The brass allows for a level of detail that suited the GG1. The only problem is the gold stripe with the gold on the keystone. The Lionel version is correct. This, while very attractive is not representative of the prototype. Having said that, the prototypes were not washed often per PRR standard practice so the color would suit it better if it were weathered.


The Williams scale model is one of the best values for a new GG1 and can negotiate an 0-42 curve in a pinch. This model shares the same style of paint and keystone as the Weaver version. It is a plastic body and does lack a few of the details found in the Weaver, but it is close. The frame and wheels appear to be from the same manufacturer or molds and they are interchangeable. The particular issue with this model is that this is a road number never produced. The highest numbered GG1 was 4938 during its Pennsy years. A good smooth runner and easy to find, so these are always nice additions to the roster.



The MTH Proto-2 model with the operable pantographs is an excellent model. Again its underframe parts are interchangeable with Weaver / Williams. The MTH model however has stepped it up on detail. The pantograph is accurate for this road number with the single contactor on the top versus the double contactor of most. It has a see through linen filter screen which is also a nice feature. While this is not the PRR version, this number is one of many that got to keep its stripes and was simply stenciled over with PC and later CR letters.

Now a comparision of the fronts of a few of these models:


Granted the GG1 to the left is not one of the sample group, but it is representative of the level of detail found on both the Weaver and Williams models. The Tuscan GG1 is the original MTH Proto-1 release. You can clearly see the level of difference in the detailing of the front. The MTH lacks clarity in the depth of the detail and the pilot is not nearly as detailed. The Lionel version is crisp. To be fair, these two are 9 years apart on production.



The 4925 JLC version has a wealth of great detail on the front and the MTH freight version below it is also sporting added detail.


This photo shows how the JLC version is a bit closer to scale than all the others. It is actually about 5/8"-3/4" longer. The two GG1s were lined up with the back aligned. The wide angle photograph distorts the view somewhat, but it is certainly noticeable when placed side by side. When pulling trains or lined up, I honestly don't find it to be that obvious.


And finally, see the level of detail at the bottom of the JLC version, which is unique among these models. From the open spokes, the detail on the builders plate, this is truly a well detailed model. If anything, my only complaint on detail is that the plates were starting to show their seams on the prototype by the time this motor received its filter modifications. How neat would that have been to work into the molding!

Overall, I find things that are attractive in all these models. The JLC is the finest example in terms of detail, but the non functional and rigid pantographs are truly a hassle. I am probably going to modify them down the road and use manual ones or see if I can get the MTH ones to work. The Weaver, while being the oldest, are very crisp and nice models. When priced right, I wouldn't hesitate to pick up more. MTH continues to refine the GG1 and has offered the most variations and road numbers, but I would like to see the sound set upgraded a bit or simply a version without sound at a cheaper price. Finally the Williams are the old standby. When all else fails, these will run, run, and run. Perfect for train shows where you need to run for long stretches of time.

I apologize for the length of this and I hope there is something useful for you in here!

Jonathan
You are very knowledgeable, thank you for taking the time and effort for sharing it with us.

Wonderful pictures. I have got to get a scale GG-1. I won't be complete w/o that and a scale Daylight.

Great comparison - very informative. Thanks for taking the time to post.

Very interesting read.

Thank you,

Lyle

Thanks Johnathan - I just looked at my MTH version that came with the East Wind set and I don't see any obvious difference in detail. It appears that the detail on the pilot of mine is a bit sharper - maybe due to thinner paint.

wow jonathan ... many thanks from my end! they are all beautied imho. appreciate the time and effort that goes into posts like this. too bad they cant be saved on the forum for future reference as quesions like this are bound to come up again.

Thanks for the comparison. Very educational.

Andy

Very informative.Makes me appreciate my Williams GG1 more.

I had the JLC 4925 and had more than a little trouble with it. For one
thing it didn't like 072 curves and was reluctant to run properly on them.
I traded the piece off to a dealer who has had no apparent problems with
it in this regard, and I'm glad for him. There's no doubt that this
is the best overall looking "G" out there. Too bad mine was such a pain
in the backside.

quote:

Originally posted by jaygee:
I had the JLC 4925 and had more than a little trouble with it. For one
thing it didn't like 072 curves and was reluctant to run properly on them.
I traded the piece off to a dealer who has had no apparent problems with
it in this regard, and I'm glad for him. There's no doubt that this
is the best overall looking "G" out there. Too bad mine was such a pain
in the backside.

Mine had a the front pantograph fail after only four hours of running time. I've had no problem with it on 072 so far, but it certainly did not run the 063 of my old layout very well at all.

I would agree that these are touchy to say the least and when I get the wire up someday, I will have problems running this one. Price is the main reason I only have the one.

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with it.

Very nicely presented and informative. Excellent job.

Thank you.

Alex

Jonathan,

Thanks for the excellent companison!

I had considered the Williams version, but have hesitated because I have O-54 and O-63 curves. Any thoughts from anyone about how the Williams GG1 looks on smaller curves?

I had sold my semi-scale GG1 because after seeing lots of pictures of the real thing, the semi-scale versions (at least to me) just didn't seem right as they don't have the long, smooth, flowing lines of the real engines.

How long are the scale GG1's? Could I run them with a string of 15" aluminum cars or would they just look silly?

Jim

Johnathan, nice post! You seem to be the go to guy when it comes to the GG1. I have the Williams 5 stripe green version and as you say they are terrific runners. I had a newer Lionel short version at one time and sold it but this scale one is a keeper. I like the scale look better. The first time I saw a Williams 5 striper, the stripes seemed to be disconnected around the noses as if they were applied separately in two steps and did not join properly. However on the one I bought which must have been a later run, the stripes looked much better. The only problem I've had with mine is that the horn quit working and nothing I do will get it to work again. Have you had any experience replacing horns in these? I need a step by step explanation on how to install one. Thanks, Ray

quote:

Originally posted by jd-train:
Jonathan,

Thanks for the excellent companison!

I had considered the Williams version, but have hesitated because I have O-54 and O-63 curves. Any thoughts from anyone about how the Williams GG1 looks on smaller curves?

I had sold my semi-scale GG1 because after seeing lots of pictures of the real thing, the semi-scale versions (at least to me) just didn't seem right as they don't have the long, smooth, flowing lines of the real engines.

How long are the scale GG1's? Could I run them with a string of 15" aluminum cars or would they just look silly?

Jim

Jim,

The scale versions are about 19" long with the JLC about 19-3/4". The prototype was just shy of 80' at 79'-6" (whoever came up with that is beyond me).

15" cars may look a little short behind these but not terribly so. 60' cars would be more in line with the fleet of PRR P-54's passenger cars which were 64' long. Dare I say it - "Madison" cars at 15" would be close to that.

The Williams will look okay through an 054 curve. Again, a little tight, but not terribly so. I ran mine on a loop of 042 with Atlas 21.5" Horizon cars and while it was pushing the realm orf realism and showed me everywhere I had a clearance problem, it was still good looking. The Weaver is advertised at 054, but I've never run one on that tight a curve.

If you are not looking for a 5 stripe version, these can be found cheap on Ebay at just around $200.00 for a single stripe.

Nice review. I'm a little disturbed that MTH, Weaver and Williams all lied about the fact that their versions were scale.

 
Great review and photos!!

I wonder how long we'll have to wait for Lionel to release a Legacy version of the GG1 ?

I'll be waiting.
 

This message has been edited. Last edited by: AlanH,

Very well done!

I echo the thank you!

Here is a less common O scale GG-1 -- eBay 110158348943

Jonathan....fantastic review. Your pictures are very sharp and clear! If you figure out a way to get those Lionel pans to flex more, let me know. You have made me want a Lionel version but the pans have to at least follow the overhead even if they don't pick up power....

Thanks!
Alan

Ditto leavingtracks, I love the looks of my Lionel scale GG1 but I wish I could make the pantographs flexible so that they would follow the catenary. has anyone tried to disconect the Lionel pantographs from the system that raises them?

Jonathan,
You did a masterful job with your photos and descriptions.
Truly one of the best photo comparisons I have seen on the Forum.
Very detailed and enlightening.
You have taught me quite a bit about the GG1 models and differences.
I also have to admit that I have the same green single stripe you used in your comparisons and I never realized that it had the FARR filters. I really missed that one. Wow.
Thanks again.
eliot

Bear,

Good stuff!

Jonathan -- I must add my kudos to you for the excellent comparisons, photo work, and supporting technical info that you've taken the time to share with us. I only have the Williams model and I love it, but it was interesting to see how it stacks up against all the others. Thanks again.

paul m.

Jonathan:

Thanks for taking the time to post the photos, the images look very nice.

Charlie