My MTH Railking 4-6-4 speeds up on a short section of straight track on my layout. The track is Lionel tubular track and the lock-on is also secured on this stretch. The engine speeds up very slightly but I can't tell where it slows down again. It is pulling a 4 car passenger set.

I assume there is a small voltage increase here but is it something to worry about in terms of the engine's electronics? All other engines are diesel and it is very hard to tell if they behave the same way.

Thanks folks

Actually, what you're seeing is a voltage drop everywhere else, as the engine gets further from the transformer.

The cure is to add more lockons. I try to add one every three track joints, but some go by distance. Something like 4-5 feet; I forget the specific rule.

Do this, and you'll see fewer drops and more consistent speed.

I don't know how much track you have, but more power drops are better. if you are using old tubular, sometimes it is coroded inside. the pins don't get a good connection and you slow down.

Layout is a 4x8. Nothing very special. I guess I will have to add some more lock-ons. This engine just came back from repair (I'm not nocking the repair at all as the engine runs as good as new) and I don't remember it doing this at all before it went down ( it went down Labor day weekend) but maybe it did. I would just rather be safe than sorry.

Thanks again!

if you have a volt meter or volt meter car make some checks around the track and try to find the bad connection

Check with a volt meter to see if you have a bad connection on the track, if not I would add more track power connections. If I were you I would have six connections, one each in the center of both long straights and the centers of all four curves, that should give you enough connections to reduce voltage drop around the layout, all your center rail connections get tied together and go to your hot lead, and the outside rail connections tie together to your common lead from the transformer. Sincerely, Gary Phillips

Is your Rail King a PS2? What Transformer are you using?

In addition to keeping multiple lockons connected at regular intervals on the track, also check for tight connections between track sections. Tubular track that's been taken apart and put back together tends to widen out where the pins go in; the loose connections can cause a drop in voltage from one section to the next.

-Eric

It might be speeding up because the track straight. Thru the curves the flanges rub against the sides of the rails, and other stuff too complicated to go over in a short sentence.

Lockons and check your track is the answer. You notice the difference now because your repaired engine is reacting to the voltage drops you may have not noticed before.

Thanks for the tips folks. The tranny is a Z1K and the engine is a PS2. I know it is not flange bind as the engine begins to speed up in the curve. The track connections are pretty tight overall but I will check it one more time and add some more lock-ons when I get a chance.

Thanks again!

Some of the folks add a jumper between each section, soldered home.

What gauge wire are you using to feed the track?

wb47 & Arthur P. Bloom - Thanks for the reply. I will certainly use the tips you and others have posted. Arthur P. Bloom - Wire is the basic wire packed with MTH & Lionel starter sets. I want to say 14 gauge...

Thanks again.

Am redoing my club module here and have a quick wiring question. I have the hot (in my case white) wire going to the center rail and common/ground (in my case blue) on the two outside running rails. Is the ground interchangeable as I can't remember which rail each ground wire was originally attached to. Can I interchange the ground on each running rail without any problems. Having problems at next weekend's show is the last thing I need and want.


A dumb question I know but I'm worthless when it comes to electricity. Scenery is my thing.

quote:

Originally posted by SJC:
Am redoing my club module here and have a quick wiring question. I have the hot (in my case white) wire going to the center rail and common/ground (in my case blue) on the two outside running rails. Is the ground interchangeable as I can't remember which rail each ground wire was originally attached to. Can I interchange the ground on each running rail without any problems. Having problems at next weekend's show is the last thing I need and want.


A dumb question I know but I'm worthless when it comes to electricity. Scenery is my thing.

Anyone on this one?

Either outside rail or both can be connected to common. The exception is when you are using one as an insulated rail to activate a relay or accessory. then only one is connected,the other goes to the accessory or relay.

Dale H

quote:

In addition to keeping multiple lockons connected at regular intervals on the track, also check for tight connections between track sections.

That would be my recommendation, as well. You don't really need to use a bunch of Lockons; you can connect the additional wiring by prying open the slots under the rail on tubular track with a straight-blade screwdriver, then let the track spring back to hold the wire in place. You can also solder the wires to the rails.

But do check the connecting pins between sections as well, because, as has been noted in earlier posts, loose pins can also cause voltage drop.

I'm having much the same situation on my layout, but have been too lazy to this point to attach some additional feeders--particularly to the points furthest away from the transformer's primary connection. Since many of the locomotives I run have speed control, the slowdown (or speed-up) effect isn't all that apparent. Nevertheless, I know its there and I do need to correct it in the near future.

Allan - Thanks for the reply and tips. I'm lazy too and that is the reason I haven't done much about it yet.

Dale - Thanks for the reply. There are no accessories or relays or anything of that matter on the module. Just two sections of straight. We do use fiber pins on the center rail on the end of each module using each particular modules wiring to power that module. I have two commons coming out of each outer rail on both tracks. My question is that if one ground was on one rail and one on the other and they were switched, will that cause any problems. I've been told that it won't but I want to be 110% sure.

Thanks!

eNGINES SLOW DOWN ESPECIALLY OF=N CURVES LIKE 031. 036, 042, 048...BIGGER IS BETTER.

Try another engine and see what happens.

I thought i remember a 45 degree decline on that section of track, maybe I WAS WRONG.

My experience with ole pressed steelLionel stuff OUTSIDE has simply
proved that proper connection preparation solvesthe problem.
Use a small dia wire cleaning brush to clean the open ends of rails
blow out any dust then apply NoOx or some conductive grease
carefully in said hole.

Pins are EZ toclean and SS besides. Tighten with pliers and or
remove, clean hole, NoOX, reinstall.

Put all together and you have a reliable running system with budget
track. Said track can even rust and no problems at treated ends.
You do have to maintain at surface ruse areas tho..... if in its indoors, not.

Think based on theGa of Lionel track x length of embedded pin X ga. of
track, you will find a decent area of metal to conduct your current.
The above procedure solves the intermitttents at the joints. Yes it is good
to secure track to a wood base.....

L

Actually, I think the best lock on bade was by Marx. You had to force the thing from the bottom into the rails. If you kept it there, it held nicely!

Just wanted to add a quick update.

I've continued testing. The train (MTH PS2 steamer with 4 streamlined MTH passenger cars) does speed up slightly in the center/towards the end of the 0-31 curve. It is a very slight speed increase. I can tell by a slight increase in the chuff rate. I've tried taking some cars off the track and once I had three cars off the track leaving only the engine and the baggage car running and it ran reliably. Of course, the engine sped up overall with less of a drag produced by the rest of the cars. I feel that possibly slightly overloaded transformer is causing this but it has never done this before and if the transformer being overloaded was the problem, wouldn't do this all the way around?

Again, my layout is 4x8 with Lionel O-gauge tubular track. Tranny is an MTH Z1000. I went to my LHS this past weekend to pick up a terminal block and wire and I explained my issue and the owner/repair man said that even though the train speeds up slightly in this one area where the lock-on is attached, there is nothing to really worry about. However, this little thing annoys me a bit.

I should also add that I can't tell if this is occurring with any other engines as my others are all diesels and electrics with one conventional steamer that only goes FAST.

Thanks and sorry for the long winded post.

Just for the heck of it, put a 2 foot long level on the track is you have one and check to see if you have any high/low spots that may be caused by the 4x8 sheet of (???).

Could it be possible that what you are seeing is the speed control kicking in and out due to a rise/fall of the layout base? Next "cheap" thing, re-clean the track. Whenever I run my steamer with the smoke on I get a film on the track that needs to be cleaned off before I run more trains.

That Z-1000 should easily handle your engine and cars. Put on extra lock ons.
Tubular track can be difficult to track down problems. Do as the others suggested.
Rob

SJC, others have covered the need for at least one additional lockon halfway around your loop of track. My personal experience is that PS2's speed control doesn't work at 100% capacity at the lower voltages you are running in conventional mode. PS2 (including speed control) needs at least 18 volts to work reliably. So even though your engine has speed control, it's responding (though not as bad as one without it) to that drop in voltage as it gets farther away from the single power drop....then picking back up as it comes around and gets closer to the power drop. This may be because you are operating(voltage wise)at or near that threhhold that your speed control needs to work properly. As others have pointed out, a cure is to even out(as much as possible) the voltage all around the loop. I use just two power drops per loop, spaced half way around from each other. This usually works fine, provided your track connections are secure. Also,when you place that additional lockon on the other side of the loop, clip it on in the same orientation(direction) as the first one. That way you will have connected BOTH outer rails to common. This seems to give me more reliable running.I noticed that Fast Track is connected that way on the under side of the roadbed. The last(and best) cure is get a DCS set and crank that Z1000 wide open for 18 volts on the track. Then you'll have true steady speed control, as (minor) voltage variations won't have any effect on the operation of the PS2.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Norberg,

A Z-1000 will only put out about 17.5 actual.
Rob

I

quote:

Originally posted by oldrob:
A Z-1000 will only put out about 17.5 actual.
Rob

Not according to MTH's transformer list in the back of every owners manual. The transformer list says 0-22v for the all of their transformers, including the Z1000. I guess that must be a misprint. My Z4000's volt meter will go up to 26V initially when you crank the handle open, then drop down and stabilize at 22V. If I read the voltage at the engine through the DCS hanheld, it always reads 2-3 volts lower than what the meter on the transformer says. I dug out my old Z1000 brick and it says 18V on it. I guess we need to let MTH know about this.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Norberg,

quote:

The manufacturer's literature lists 0-22V...... that's what I go by. If you have better data, you need to let them know that their manuals are wrong.

I bought my Z-1000 one year ago. On the box it came in it clearly says "18v output at 100W". My own testing with a digital meter shows 17.5 volts output underload. I don't know where you got your info but it is wrong. Could be an MTH misprint as you suggested.
Rob

This message has been edited. Last edited by: oldrob,

Thanks once again. I have off on Friday so I will take a ride up to the LHS and pick up some more wire and a terminal block. Hopefully this will resolve the problem.

Suggest you relocate the lockon to a straight area. Then try it.
or
check to be sure the loco 'runs free' when not under power, that is.


L

EZ enuf to simply run a second feed wire (s) (?) from the lockon
to diagonally across from the only one is located. Then check.
And let us know!

I have a Z750 brick that puts 21v on the track. it came with a rtr set. its 7 yrs old.

I just wanted to post a (hopefully) final update for this little problem.

Anyway, I took a ride over to my LHS today to pick up some wiring which thankfully he had just enough as he was recently just about picked clean and hadn't reordered yet but I did get what I need and went home to do some work. After I got everything done, I fired up the trains and they run beautifully. I appreciate all the help/tips everyone has posted here.

Thanks folks.

(BTW and FWIW, my LHS backs right up to the CSX Metropolitan Sub. There is a neighborhood on the other side of the tracks and they decided to park their minivan on the ROW. Just as I pulled up the gates went down next door and a train known locally as "The Trash Train" came screeching to a halt thanks to the emergency brakes. Thankfully they stopped with about a foot or two to spare and the conductor climbed down to give them a hand. After some bad driving by another guy over there to help pull the car off the tracks, everything was okay and the train went on its way. Luckily, they didn't have this run-in with the train following the trash train - the Amtrak Capital Limited doing roughly 70 mph. Anyway, it was a little excitement to another day at the LHS.)