My primary interest is the New Haven railroad. I have been looking for a scale 3 rail model of the NH FL9 for some time. To the best of my knowledge, a scale model of the FL9 has not been made in O scale in either 3 or 2 rail. Does anyone know if an O scale model of this engine has been made?

Lionel and others have painted F3's and other F units in the NH McGinnis color scheme. These models fall short of being a true FL9. I am not interested in them.

I find it curious that a scale FL9 has not been made. Other NH diesels and electrics are well represented with O gauge models. The FL9 lasted in main line service much longer than most EMD F units and was used by several railroads - NH, Penn Central, Conrail, Metro North, Amtrak, etc. I believe that a couple of FL9s are still in active work train service with Metro North.

I spoke to an importer at a recent train show. He said that he hasn't heard of any demand for a scale FL9.

Question: Would anyone else besides me buy a scale FL9? Is there any demand in the O scale community for this engine?

Happy Rails

me, i would buy 2, one in NH and one in Metro-North

I've long wanted MTH to make this loco. If they did, I'd be in for one, as well as a set of corrugated streamlined passenger cars to go with it, so I could have my own "Merchant's Limited" on my layout.

MTH would be able to get several sets out of the tooling.

The Lionel NH F-3s are pure fantasy locos--the NH never had any F-3 units.

I would be interested in one also.

A few years ago I saw a pair of 2-rail O scale FL9s in unpainted brass at the Amherst show. I asked about the importer, but I forget the answer - the units were out of my reach financially, so I had no incentive to remember.

Quite a few of us have been hoping for an FL9 in plastic for some time. I agree that MTH is the best bet; they've given us a number of unusual diesels of similar size. The first run of the DL-109 in New Haven green was a sellout, and I think an FL9 in McGinnis colors would do just as well. (But please, give it the original Hancock air whistle!)

I haven't been buying new locomotives lately, for several reasons - largely financial. But for a properly done FL9, I'd take out a third mortgage. (Dare we hope for corrugated coaches too?)

I have been waiting for someone to make this unit for a long time. The only other loco I've been waiting longer for is a DRX-6-2000 Baldwin "Jersey Janus".

Tony Sincius
TCA# 97-45101

I would prefer an "0" scale FL-9 painted in the original New Haven red/white/black colors and the current Metro North red/blue/silver colors.

I have a pair of painted FL-9's in 2 rail. They were imported by Overland Models in 2 rail only probably in the late 1980's if I remember correctly. Overland even gave you the option of two types of pilot truck sideframes.

I'd be in for a couple.

quote:

Overland even gave you the option of two types of pilot truck sideframes.

The two prototypes of the FL9 were outfitted with Blomberg trucks. These were quickly replaced by modified Flexicoils when it was decided that the engines needed third rail pickups on both the front and rear trucks. The Blomberg designs have outside swing hangers precluded the installation of a front truck pick up.

BTW, the FL9 was an odd engine that was build in very low numbers and was used in a very limited geographic area by a very limited number of railroads (aka NH, PC, CR, Amtrak, Metro North). A new release in brass like Weaver is doing for the BP-20 may make more sense. Tooling to make an injection mold isn't cheap and a model like this may not have enough appeal to justify the cost.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: chuck,

Pencil me in for NH AND Metro North

Chuck,
As I recall the first group was 30 units (2000-2029) as well as the second group(2030-2059) for a total of 60. Sunset/3rd Rail has thought about producing these engines in the past and they may be a future consideration. 200 or more units would need to be produced to make the project worthwhile.

As pointed out earlier they would be brass due to the tooling cost for a limited market appeal. The Weaver BP-20 sharks have established market pricing for a project of this sort.

For those unfamiliar with FL-9's they are unique in having a 3 axle truck in the rear. If Sunset did them they would be accurate with the Hancock air whistle.

2nd batch of 30 had a number of improvements made that were actually pretty close to the GP-18 and there was some consideration to designate those as FL-18 but the FL-9 designation was retained.

In addition to the odd truck arrangement the engines also have an odd size. They aren't the same physical size as any of the other F series loco's (F3's, 7's and 9's were about 50' 8" long, FP's were 54' 8" while the FL was 58' 8") Those differences make a scale FL-9 about 2" longer than a scale F which is pretty noticeable.

The book Diesel's to Park Avenue by Snopek and La May is a great source of info/photo's on these unique locomotives.

I would be happy with the release of an FP7!

The FL body would be a new mold. But at least the trucks are Off the self.

quote:

Originally posted by prrhorseshoecurve:
I would be happy with the release of an FP7!

Me too. All 3 roads I model had them.

I tell you though, especially after this last York, 3rdRail/GGD and Weaver seem to be going head to head right now to bring out models that have specific spoken interest in them.

quote:

The FL body would be a new mold. But at least the trucks are Off the self.

The side castings aren't off the shelf. The lead truck is a two axle FlexiCoil. There were a few (maybe only one) EMD switcher that used these.

I'll take a NH and a Metro North.

eliot

quote:

BTW, the FL9 was an odd engine that was built in very low numbers and was used in a very limited geographic area by a very limited number of railroads (aka NH, PC, CR, Amtrak, Metro North). A new release in brass like Weaver is doing for the BP-20 may make more sense. Tooling to make an injection mold isn't cheap and a model like this may not have enough appeal to justify the cost.

I'd think it would have as much appeal as the DL-109 (which did well for MTH). The main difference, to my mind, is that the FL9 ran only in the Northeast -- but there's such a disproportionately high concentration of modelers in the Northeast that it may not matter.

quote:

If Sunset did them they would be accurate with the Hancock air whistle.

When I mentioned the Hancock, I was thinking of its sound rather than its appearance. It's unlike any steam whistle or air horn sound, and a new sound file would need to be made. My MTH New Haven EP-5 (with PS1; I don't know whether they've changed it on the PS2 models) has a nice ornamental whistle, but the sound file is very strange (to my ear). It starts at a low pitch and shifts abruptly higher: oooooWEEEEE. All the prototype Hancocks I've heard stay on one pitch; they sound a lot like an American Flyer billboard whistle. I'm hoping that whoever does the FL9 can get the whistle right.

I want to thank everyone who has replied to this post and who have supplied more information about the FL-9. It appears that there is interest within the 3-rail community for a scale FL-9. I plan to speak to manufacturer representatives whenever I encounter them at shows. Perhaps one of them will take a chance on making a FL-9.

A few forum members mentioned that the FL-9 was produced in limited numbers (60). This is true. However, other limited production NH engines including the I-5 Hudson (10 built) and EP-5 electric (10 built) have sold well in the O gauge market.

I don't see any reason that a scale FL-9 couldn't be equally successful. The FL-9 lasted much longer and was used by many more railroads than either the I-5 or the EP-5. The McGinnis paint scheme may sell it to more than just NH fans. The scheme seems to attract buyers.

Thank you again for your posts. Happy Rails, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Barker:

A few forum members mentioned that the FL-9 was produced in limited numbers (60). This is true. However, other limited production NH engines including the I-5 Hudson (10 built) and EP-5 electric (10 built) have sold well in the O gauge market.
Joe

If you want to talk about low numbered prototypes for popular toy trains. The Pennsy Turbine that Lionel, Williams, MTh and others have made is a model of a single engine. There was only one.

The K-line EP-5 has Hancock horns. It seems to be the only toy of this engine that does have them. Even American Flyer used the "normal" trumpet bell horns.

The Williams NH F-7s have cab numbers from the FL-9 series.

You can add Penn Central to one of the FL9 paint schemes. And, it wasn't PC black!

Fred

The turbine is a great example of a loco that became iconic as a toy. The EP-5's may fall into the same class because of the original Lionel and AF units even if the former was only labeled as an EP-5. Some of the other units that MTH did that were not wide spread (either in numbers or in geography) in real life at least looked different (e.g.the DL-109's, Little Joe's) than anything else.

An FL-9 looks a lot like an FP-9 unless you examine the trucks or place it next to a real FP-9. If you just try to swap out the trucks/side castings people will complain that it isn't truly scale or accurate. If you go to the trouble of making a real FL-9 it's probably going to be expensive.

quote:

BTW, the FL9 was an odd engine that was build in very low numbers and was used in a very limited geographic area by a very limited number of railroads (aka NH, PC, CR, Amtrak, Metro North). A new release in brass like Weaver is doing for the BP-20 may make more sense.

NOt Really! You just stated 5 paint schemes plus LIRR & ConDot versions[which is essentially new haven with the State Of conneticut seal] that's six. IF the Ep5 can be made in plastic with just three paint schemes, Surely the FL9 is a shoe in for plastic mold body.

BTW NYC subways & NH Ep5's are a big hit for a single geographic area, Why can't the FL9 be?

I'll bet MTH will pick up on this. If they make a NH McGuiness FL-9, I'm in!

You listening, MTH?

EP-5's are popular because Lionel and American Flyer made them popular just like Lionel made the Pennsy S-2 Turbine popular (and it wasn't even close to scale and had a production prototype of ONE)

Compare an FL-9 to an F/FP 3,7,9 or a GP-7 or GP-9? How many road names? Are there any places in NA that these other engines weren't used?

I wish all of you good luck in trying to get a scale/accurate FL-9 made but I suspect it's more likely to be done as a limited edition brass unit than an injection molded plastic model.

quote:

Originally posted by Lightning Stripes: ...snip... I'd think it would have as much appeal as the DL-109 (which did well for MTH). ...snip...

But the DL-109 looks classy and doesn't look like half of the other locomotives in the fleet.

In this gauge, it would likely be offered first in Santa Fe red war bonnet, SP Daylight and UP Yellow anyway.

It's a cool prototype. I've always liked that 6 axle rear truck and it had some real winners of paint schemes.

Hope to see one built. I might be in for an Amtrak or PC version.

Metro-North painted a pair of FL9's for New York Central so there's another prototypically accurate scheme - at least for two of them.

There are several available options for Penn Central painted models: standard PC black/white, MTA blue/yellow and New Haven McGinnis Sacony red/black/white with PC stencils.

Bob

Did anyone read the July 2008 issue of 'Railfan & Railroad?' Preston Cook did an article on EMD F units. In the article there was a planned EMD FL9 that was going to be cataloged. It was to have 3,000 gallons of water for long haul passenger service. It was designed with the Blomberg and an A-1-A Flexicoil trucks. In the end, the FL9 ended up being sold to the NH only. The article ends with a paragraph:
"Imagine this FL9 in Santa Fe's warbonnet scheme or Southern Pacific Daylight colors! Unfortunately, there were no buyers for this version, and the diagram leaves us with just a clue of an F-unit that never got built."

So in spite of a NE only unit, "with if" paint schemes of Santa Fe or SP wouldn't be too big of a stretch of the imagination. While I'm a west coast fan myself, an FL9 would be a neat engine to have. With some removal of electric third rail shoe detail, the what if SP daylight units could be modeled......

Greg

EMD did try to market the FL-9 to the NYC and the Pennsylvania for use on their electrified divisions. This eventuall did sort of happen with the PC merger.

If you don't need the third rail support, you don't need the Flexicoil and then you could swap in a A-1-A style Blomberg like the ones used on the EMD E's.

EMD went with the Flexicoil truck due to the fact the E unit 6 wheel Blomberg truck wouldn't accept the same sized wheels possible on the Blomberg 4 wheel truck. The E unit truck was limited to 36" wheels while the 4 wheel Blomberg truck could take 40" wheels. Until the introduction of the 6 wheel Flexicoil 40" wheels were not usable. EMD wanted both trucks to have 40" wheel sets. EMD probably did try to market the electric version to NYC and PRR.

Greg

The FL9 was offered in 1959? Correct? Interesting that the NYC didn't pick more up. The PRR was still a bit beholden to it's G's for passenger service, so I can understand why they might have passed. The LIRR could have benefited though. There's another fantasy scheme that might sell.

Shoot, I might even consider a set in NJT, which is purely funny since I won't accept an AEM7 in NJT colors. I guess I learned to live with my own hypocrisy a while back

The Houston METRORail LRT S70 cars have something which looks like the Hancock air whistle. Are they?

The primary reason for mounting an A-1-A truck at the rear of the FL9 was to better distribute the locomotive's weight due to concerns regarding the Park Avenue viaduct.

Jonathan:

You'll be interested in knowing a pair of FL9's were tested in NY&LB service during the 60's. Accounts claim they made only one Bay Head turn and were returned. Most fans, myself included, never even knew it happened until after the fact.

Bob

There is a great book on the FL-9 that I have. It is called:
Diesels to Park Avenue The FL-9 Story
by Joseph R. Snopek and Robert A. La May

It is by New England Rails Publishing Company
P.O Box 403
Grandby, MA 01033-0403

Thanks folks, for posting several tidbits of info about the FL9s, a loco that I remember from my days growing up in Connecticut. As I've stated repeatedly, although I'm primarily interested in B&M and MEC equipment, this particular loco was part of my childhood (like my Alco DL-109s, thanks MTH), so I would very much like to have one (or a pair) and a set of NH streamlined cars to go with it.

Any FL-9 fans in Ohio will want to come ride the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad (CVSR) this Christmas and holiday season. The CVSR is going to be using an FL-9 #484 during the busy Christmas excursion season. It is painted in a green and white paint scheme.

MTH should produce an FL-9 various road names including Amtrak could be produced.

The FL-9 hasn't been produced much in any scale. I checked and it seems that the only units done have been in brass or were limited run resin. There was a web site which indicated there was going to be an injection molded one in HO but I did not see a release date. There are a number of articles on folks doing kitbashing FP's with the usual problems of matching/customizing the trucks.

The hybrid before its time!

Here's another FL9 paint scheme - Morristown & Erie - nobody has mentioned yet....

http://www.dominionrailvoyages...CA_1_15_030small.jpg

They are former Amtrak units.

Bob

Here,s a U Tube link;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcIGlGywbrE

Jac