I was up on my table laying out some track after yet another revision and as I turn to grab the next piece my whole world goes into slow motion as I fall straight through my benchwork and crash to the floor.

Luckily there were only 4 things on my table; grass mat, track, a foam mountain and myself. At 36" it wasn't a long fall but needless to say I'll be rebuilding my benchwork this weekend instead of doing the wiring I had planned on. Well, who knows I might get to do it still.

My table was a 10'x15' L shape and I think the problem was that I tried to build it as basically two sections and screw them together. It was basically a 10'x5' section and a 10'x4' section stuck together and for whatever reason even though I'd been up on that table 20 times, I found that sweet spot and it came crashing down.

This time I'll be building the benchwork in 4 sections each 36" tall and 4'x5'. That will make the table modular, I can start working on one section and when I'm done move the next section in. Most importantly they will be small enough and sturdier than the larger sections.

I woulda liked to have watched that...

When you build like you propose, you need to put leg supports at each joint between sections...even if you screw them together and especially if you are going to walk or sit on them. Glad you didn't get hurt!

Alan

quote:

Originally posted by leavingtracks:
When you build like you propose, you need to put leg supports at each joint between sections...even if you screw them together and especially if you are going to walk or sit on them. Glad you didn't get hurt!

Alan

Thanks, I did have braces between the legs, that's what was funny about it. I'm only 230 lbs so I must have just spaced the legs too far apart and when I turned to grab a piece of track I tweaked and things shifted.

Glad you didn't get hurt. Whip out the nail gun and you should be back on track within a few hours!

And people told me MY benchwork was excessive....now you know why



Just out of curiousity, what was the worst?

Wow, Nick that is impressive benchwork. Going to have to try to incorporate some of those 45* braces into my new work. How did you join your cross braces? There looks like there's no offset.

Glad to hear you were not hurt!

I've done my benchwork in several modules. I would recommend that you bolt not screw the modules together.

Jim

sheet rock type screws are very brittle and should never used in load bearing situations. a good rule of thumb in deck and bench work building is you should be able to remove all fasteners without the structure falling down. in other words fasteners hold things together, not bear weight.

quote:

Originally posted by SolarEclipse2:
How did you join your cross braces? There looks like there's no offset.

When my father and I constructed the layout, we did it as 4 identical 4' x 8' tables bolted together. Where you see two separate sets of legs and braces right next to each other is actually where one table is bolted to the next. The cross braces were joined by firing the nail through the side and into the end of the brace (this was done before the legs were added). I think there were more areas than that, I'll have to check for you.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: NickyBigBoy,

quote:

Originally posted by JohnS:
sheet rock type screws are very brittle and should never used in load bearing situations. a good rule of thumb in deck and bench work building is you should be able to remove all fasteners without the structure falling down. in other words fasteners hold things together, not bear weight.

All I can say about that I used deck screws. I thought they'd be good enough. None of the screws had broken It was simply too long of a section without legs in between and it tweaked and fell.

quote:

Originally posted by NickyBigBoy:
When my father and I constructed the layout, we did it as 4 identical 4" x 8" tables bolted together. Where you see two separate sets of legs and braces right next to each other is actually where one table is bolted to the next. The cross braces were joined by firing the nail through the side and into the end of the brace (this was done before the legs were added). I think there were more areas than that, I'll have to check for you.

I see. What size bolts,etc did you use to bolt the sections together?

Im glad to hear you didn't get hurt. You can fix a bench but healing bones can be rough. Get' er done!
Rob

I'm not sure of the size. I'll ask my father tomorrow (he's asleep now). Here's some more pics of the benchwork though:

One of the bolts that connects the tables





This pic illustrates what I meant about firing the nail through the end and into the cross brace. I think more were fired through the top too.



A close-up of one of the legs. Note it is made of two pieces of wood.



Here's one of the end legs



Here's another close-up of how the cross braces meet. Once again, the nail was fired through the side, so you can't see it. This is also the meeting point of two of the tables.



Here's a pic of the back of the control box, which was screwed into the legs of the table.



Another shot of the box



Hope these pics give you some ideas. Trust me, the benefits of having the extra bracing far outweigh the extra cost and time needed for it. Be sure to pick out good quality wood from your local Lionel lumber shed, er, I mean Home Depot

I'm with Nick on this one. If you are going to be climbing up there, you need to "overbuild" the benchwork, because your ability to walk for the rest of your life is worth the extra effort. I've got 2x4's put together to make the legs, like in Nick's pics, and I've got the individual sections bolted together and LOTS of cross braces. I have 6 sections, each made of 2x4's and plywood. The decking on top is 3/4 inch plywood. I can get up on there and walk around. I can jump around. It is very strong, and well worth it. Only difference between my layout benchwork and Nick's is that where he used nails, I used screws.

I agree with everything said here, but with 3/8- 1/2" plywood you can build all the legs and braces you want and still have 6"x6" area where knots in each of the ply's line up and whammo! you have a soft spot that, if enough weight is applied to you can fall thru, been there, done that, got the t-shirt!!! Be real selective when purchashing plywood!!

The soft spot thing is true. I've stepped in a few bad spots before and heard a tiny crack. Be sure to only walk on the spots where you KNOW the legs and cross braces are. Those suckers can hold 500+ pounds!

Reading the first paragraph made me laugh. Although I don't know you, I can only imagine what that would have looked like...and sounded like. Glad your ok.

Two words....L-Girder.

Stronger than a flat table every time.

quote:

Originally posted by SolarEclipse2:

...I did have braces between the legs, that's what was funny about it. I'm only 230 lbs so I must have just spaced the legs too far apart and when I turned to grab a piece of track I tweaked and things shifted.

That's a Bozo no-no.

Hi Nicholas, nice bench work in your pics above. An investment in even a seven inch miter saw and a 1/4 inch drill can go a long way to building a strudy table.

I'm with Rich. I'll put my L-girder benchwork against any overbuilt 2 x 4 construction. It's not the size of the lumber, it's how you use it. Get Linn Westbrook's book on benchwork and educate yourself on the proper way to do it.

Hmmmm? Got a question folks. Although I have seen many threads recommending dry wall screws, John S says they are too brittle for bench work. What are your thoughts on deck screws?

quote:

Originally posted by TrainPop:
What are your thoughts on deck screws?

Deck screws are what I used. The screws weren't the problem in my case, it was my crappy design.

Actually, as John S said, in proper construction the fasteners should not be weight bearing. However, deck screws are stronger than sheetrock screws.

Sheet rock screws, NEVER,NEVER,NEVER! Like JohnS said they are made for sheet rock and Sheetrock weighs X amount per square foot and its static(doesn't move) How many times have you walked on your wall or ceiling? None! And the screws are designed with as little metal and hardening to accomplish this task. So some may have gotten away with them so far but there's always a risk! My vote is NEVER USE THEM for structural members period!

Drywall screws supposedly have much inferior shear strength as compared to deck screws. Home Depot used to have a phamplet describing the various fastner capacities. Piedmont Fastners,Inc also has descriptive data locally. I do know that drywall screws will snap off when being removed[I just dismantled a layout and had used a few to retain 1/2" plywood decking].

If you're just building for the layout to be on, you can go light on construction framing, if you're going to have to get on top of it, build it strong, 2 x4 or 6's, cross bracing, lots of support, you don't want to have happen what happened to SolarEclipse2, just glad he's okay! Sincerely, Gary P.

quote:

Originally posted by gg1man:
Hi Nicholas, nice bench work in your pics above. An investment in even a seven inch miter saw and a 1/4 inch drill can go a long way to building a strudy table.

Well, we did use the circular saw to cut all the wood, but no drilling here (except for the control box). Everything was nailed together with a pressurized nail gun. For example, assembling the legs was basically just POP - POP- POP. About 2 minutes of drilling was done in 10 seconds.

solareclipse, you might want to look into a topside creeper. This will keep you up and off your benchwork: http://www.micromark.com/TOPSI...ORT-SYSTEM,8854.html

The investment will be far less than your insurance deductible should you fall again. good luck, and be careful!

Nick

I essentially built a wall and laid it down. 2X4's on 16 inch centers laid across and angle braced to 8' long 2x4 horses. Laid the 3/4" plywood with the grain perpendicular to the 2x4's and attached with angles and shims to get it level. Then put down the homasote and indoor/outdoor carpet. Later, I ended up lag bolting an L-girder (1x4 and 1x3) ledger board to the wall and then screwed one end of the horses into that to remove the back set legs of the horses. I can dance on top of this thing and it doesn't flex/sway or wiggle in the slightest.

Now, even though I have an extension made of L-girders, I wouldn't consider getting up on top of the thing until I strap it to a lolly column to permanently stabilize it. But I know it won't cave in.

Fred

Solar,
Happy you are not hurt. My question is did you get the crash on video?
Al

Standard framing. I'm no little guy, while support for train related items is minimal I probably spent as much time on the layout as under it.



With doublers on the edges.






Turntable support














Permanent, let someone else remove it.

Heh. Thanks for all the support guys. I'm going to get some more wood this weekend and rebuild. I'm going to do it in sections and I'm going to add more braces and legs like like Nicky did.

I'm glad I wasn't hurt and even though I've met my insurance deductible for the year the end of year is quickly creeping up, lol.

And to those who asked, no I didn't get a video although I could have won a million bucks with it. I was so perturbed I didn't even want to take a picture of it.

Mikect- That table top sure does look super smooth on top around the turntable!Is that plywood with a paper finish on it that you used for the top? The kind of plywood they use for making signs? Looks real good !

deck screws, sheetrock screws will all fail inspection if used in a load bearing situation in deck or house construction. deck screws are just more corosion resistant than regular screws. a #10 sheetrock and a #10 deck screw have the same strength. screws probably have more shear strength than nails, but will fail when flexed a few times, where as nails can flex far more times and not fail. even when sheathing the walls of a house screws will fail. there is much more movement in a structure or benchwork then you might think. always think "live load" needs nails.

quote:

Originally posted by 2318JUSTIN:
Mikect- That table top sure does look super smooth on top around the turntable!Is that plywood with a paper finish on it that you used for the top? The kind of plywood they use for making signs? Looks real good !

Yes, it is 1/2 plywood designed for exterior sign application. MDO, Medium density overlay. It worked well for me but I'm not sure everyone want to pay the price.

I thought it looked super smooooth! Super job! Its beutiful!

Originally I though I might just paint roads and the such, but as I started working with it, the fact that it is very water resistant and didn't warp or swell when white glue was applied to it in abundance made even a better choice. You could probably get similar qualities out of A/C board, but working you way down to plyscores, particle board, and chip board may add some unwanted problems with the surface and overall track laying. That's and IMO. Mike CT