Hi Everyone,

If you are planning to purchase an AtlasO Dash8-40CW, would you like to have the unit equipped w/ E.O.B. speed control. I definately would like to have E.O.B. in these units. So, how 'bout it?

Jim W., Please feel free to share your thoughts with us

Perhaps also it might be asked for how many a purchase decision depends on EOB. This is the one diesel I have wanted more than any other for my roster, and I was disappointed to see it not offered in the Masterline. Judging by the U23s, I will allow that a Trainman version likely may be as detailed as an MTH Premier version, but the lack of EOB is a real disincentive for me. I don't even run my non-EOB TMCC diesels any more. There is nothing "scale" about jack rabbit starts with a heavy train.

Atlas was supposed to announce its six axle diesel six months ago. I was hoping for a Dash 8-40CW then. Atlas delayed the annoucement and MTH announced this engine, and I committed to all three Santa Fe roadnumbers. Why Atlas would expect any of us who ordered the MTH model now to consider theirs, especially without a speed control system, is beyond me.

So yes, I very much would like to see EOB offered. If so, I will commit. If not, I have my doubts.

I'll offer a few other observations. Atlas seems to be talking about a blurring of the Masterline and Trainman lines in terms of detail. So far that seems to mean Trainman engines that are becoming more detailed (I admit, I have yet to buy one, though). I have a hunch that Atlas is having misgivings about competing with MTH and Lionel with the Masterline, and that perhaps is understandable. Masterline diesels use multiple parts for various sub-assemblies where MTH Premier models may use only one. An MTH pilot is usually a single cast piece, including steps with some added detail parts, like air hoses. An Atlas pilot is a main casting with separately applied steps and sometimes even MU recepticles. That's before getting to the add-on details. MTH uses single body shells. An Atlas GP 60 consists of a nose, cab, long hood, and two battery box assemblies. Throw in the cost of die cast vs. stamped frames. All of these parts have to be separately tooled and then separately produced and assembled. I suspect the costs of producing Masterline engines makes them an unattractive alternative for competing with increasingly detailed, but more simply constructed, MTH and I suppose Lionel models. A more detailed Trainman line using similar assembly techniques might well be what Atlas sees as a competitive solution. What really may be going on, then, is not so much that the Trainman line is approaching the Masterline (as Atlas says) but that its really being upgraded to a detail level making it better able to compete with the MTH Premier line. One implication of that is that fewer new Masterline models will be offered in the future and larger engines like the Dash 8, perhaps not at all. In any event, to be in that race, the Trainman line has to have speed control.

RM

Adapting to rapid change in a risk filled environment is key to staying alive today. It was only a short time ago that the Trainman Line was announced as a cheaper, less detailed, non-EOB but yet scale alternative to the Master Line. Flash forward a scant few years.

Atlas Long Range Planning has dictated some type of change, and we may see the end of two separate lines of engines to stay price competitive. Of course this is all speculation. But, obviously, something is happening.

Like Rich, no EOB, no deal. But, you cannot price a less detailed Trainman with EOB the same as a fully loaded detailed MTH Premier diesel. Makes no sense, especially the very same model. For less of a model the price would have to be significantly less. If the difference between a Trainman and an MTH Premier is only 20-40 dollars, again, makes no sense.

Branding of the line is another problem Atlas has to deal with. The Trainman line has a stigma (lack of a better word) now attached to it, at least for all the scale guys. Many of us were not overjoyed with the Trainman line to begin with.

It will be interesting to see the next Master Series engine and when it will be announced. But I agree with Rich, most likely it will be a 4 axle.

i brought a used tmcc control system to try out tmcc. ( i have dcs and have been using that system since it released in 2002). i went to my lhs and brought a atlas "o" tmcc southern gp35 engine. i thought that all tmcc engines had speed control like mth engines have. but i found out that this is not true. i exchanged the engine at my lhs for a mth engine......rogerw.

I emailed Jerry Kimble this week about a couple things regarding the Dash-8. His response to the EOB question was:

"Finally we’re still working through whether this locomotive will have cruise control or not, which once that decision is made we’ll post the information on our web site at www.atlaso.com as well as our next mini catalog. This catalog will be available next month."

I should expect that response since the unit is only newly announced. Emails to Atlas may help them decide to include EOB with the unit.

As for the direction of Atlas as a company, I really have no idea. I have no problem with the Trainman line, I think it could be a real value when it comes to producing rolling stock. For example, a fully scale 53' Gunderson Maxi-IV articulated set would be a really nice Trainman item. There are not tons of details, put just the right amount on them to be cost effective, low ride height, kadee compatible, and 53' boxes without the minute details of the 40' and 45' boxes. The item is a repeat purchase, meaning guys like me buying multiple numbers and paint schemes over various runs.

Also, as a side note, the dash-8 has the fixed pilot included in the box. The difficulty level of installing is still to be known, and while I am not anywhere near Rich's skill level, there is a chance a Dremel may be needed. In any case, Jerry turned me onto JD's Trains. From the same email from Jerry:

"The one Dealer who comes to mind that does fixed pilot installations is JD’s Trains who can be contacted at 314-409-4451."

So I called and he offered to install at no additional cost. Very nice man, and very knowledgeable of this forum, (he remembers Rich's post detailing the list of parts to convert Atlas O diesels to fixed pilots).

Mike

Rich, Pete & Mike, Some really good ideas... Maybe AtlasO can offer E.O.B. as an option (if this step is not too cost prohibitive)

quote:

The Trainman line has a stigma (lack of a better word) now attached to it, at least for all the scale guys.

What stigma is that?

Less detail, molded in detail, one mold fits all etc. Not exactly 3RS. Plus no EOB. That stigma.

I'll second that thought. While I think the GP15's represent a high water mark for the Trainman line to date, Life Like (by Walther's now) offers a GP15 with road specific details in their Proto 1000 line in HO. That's the Trainman equivalent of detail, etc. It's all molded detail as well, but with variations on the molding.

I believe this is a good move for Atlas marketing, by upgrading the trainman newest diesel, detail specific perhaps some additional add on detailing they can sell at competive pricing. Clearly they are trying to hold the 499.99 price on their master line for the near future, check the offers from dealers on the coming units (shorter discounts). The new GE should be an excellent seller if enough value is offered. Just an opinion.
Hibar

Mike,

Thanks for the kind words. I'm guessing that the basic operation to fix the pilot involves removing the three rail pilot (one may have to drop the trucks for this -- sometimes I cut them off), cutting off the tab that mounts the three rail pilot to the truck block, removing the three rail coil coupler (I unceremoniously just cut the wires rather than trace them back through the wiring harness) and mounting the pilot and spacer. On all but one or two Masterline engines I've done, that has involved tapping the screw holes in the frame. Since Atlas is providing the parts, hopefully they will tap the mounting holes. And it may be necessary to cut off the lug on which the three rail coupler mounts so that it doesn't strike the fixed pilot. I didn't have to do that for the 8-40BWs, but had to for the SD 40.

Anyone else who would like the EOB option for this engine, sing out, please.

RM

Rich can you show us some pics of you fixed pilot diesels please?

I posted some on the freight car conversion thread at the top of the page, where someone brought the issue up. Scroll down to see them.

RM

Converting Atlas

Thank you! Very nice work, why can't they look like this out of the box?