I never disconnect my passenger cars once together. How about if a mfg supply a 3 rail coupler with each car otherwise put kadees on all the other cars. I know I dislike the looks of the lionel coupler sticking out the back of my observation and would rather have a kadee there. Also make the kadees adjustable as to distance apart for the radii curves you are using.

Darned near impossible to do with body mounted Kadee couplers. Plus, it is hard enough to ge manufacturers to offer a mounting pad/shim, on passenger cars, for Kadee couplers. Except, of course, for Golden Gate Depot.

Atlas is doing just that. Atlas has come to realize the same thing. Named trains do not have to mate with other passenger cars let alone freight cars, and most people never switch or separate them anyway. Atlas is supposed to come out with a new scale adjustable coupler for the CZ set, and have a realistic coupler on the back. It is about time and should be done on passenger cars.

It is a good idea, and this is what the 3RS forum is for, not to roll over and take what the manufactures give or have given us, but to campaign actively to get what we want and demand improvements.

I would like to see Kadees come standard on scale passenger cars. I like the idea of supplying the large coupler in the box if someone wants to convert back for whatever reason.

A slight difference of opinion as named trains cars did mix with other equipment. That is why I have exactly one CZ sleeper on order - the one that either ran on the PRR or the NYC depending on the day of the week

For that reason, I would like to be able to separate the cars and often mix passenger trains for the prototypical look.

Yes, I did not go so far as to day they did not mix, but Atlas has the right strategy moving forward> It is ours, it is a named famous streamliner, so full speed ahead, we're giving you a new scale coupler! I have been trying to get 3rd Rail to do the same. Atlas got it. Why have a beautiful scale replica of something right down to perfect, and then stick a gigantic foolish looking thing for a coupler on it?

I completely agree with the concept of doing a near perfect model and then putting a big huge coupler on it kind of defeats the purpose.

Following along on Pete's and Jonathan's comments above, maybe it is now, finally, the time to "turn the tables" so to speak on the 3RS "scale coupler" versus the "big coupler" as standard application. Manuafaturers such as Sunset/3rd Rail/Golden Gate Depot, Atlas O, and Weaver off excellent "scale length" passenger and freight rolling stock. Why then don't their 3-Rail products come as standard equipment, i.e. INSTALLED, with scale couplers? Lets apply some ligic here. The 3-Rail "small layout" guys, i.e. sharper than 072 curves, generally don't purchase 20"/21" long passenger cars ANYWAY, so WHY THE BIG COUPLER AS STANDARD?

If Golden Gate Depot and Atlas O mount "scale couplers" RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX, on all their future passenger cars, and inclode, in the box, the big coupler, wouldn't that be much better? Then the major market customers would be MORE satisfied, and only those very few "other 3-Rail" modlers would have to convert the cars to their layouts.

Now I'm NOT saying strictly body mounted "scale couplers" for the passenger cars! I would have no objection to truck mounted "scale couplers" in order to allow for additional swing thru S cuves and switches, so long as the cars are closely coupled and the couplers are at the correct NMRA height.

While I would love scale couplers to be the default on scale models...

I think we're still very much so a minority group.

quote:

I think we're still very much so a minority group.

Tre,

I think Atlas is moving ahead regardless. There are many factors involved here. Before I discuss them, let's talk about something that Jon and I are familiar with. N Scale. The absurd Horn Hook was the standard, for 20 years. A few smart manufactures with the help a forward thinking and vocal minority, (I took my lumps on the old Atlas N Scale Forum too, notice I did also not use the word smart for us) made the change. Kadee couplers were loved by many. Micro Trains came with these standard. Then, (don't recall exactly) Delux Innovations, Intermountain, Red Caboose and a few others ditched the Horn Hook. Then Atlas, Kato came out with their own coupler. N scale now has a new standard.

Jack is right. The time is now. Atlas is moving us ahead.

First, a kadee will work perfectly with tinplate couplers. That alone should move things ahead. Next, someone has recognized just because something was done one way for ages, does not make it the best way, for the consumer or the train person. What coupler would someone pick if they had a choice, from the beginning? Being in the minority on the side of a good cause eventually benefits the majority. It is only a natural evolution of the hobby. Even for old time you can pry the tinplate couple from my cold dead hands guys.

Atlas has a great opportunity here and they are taking advantage of it. We have to get GGD on board. The thing that ruins the appearance of their cars is the lack of a GGD scale coupler. Makes no sense whatsoever. As Jack says, these are 21" cars! GGD needs to develop their own, or use kadees.

MTH is releasing a new scale proto coupler, as well as making kadee pads standard on all their cars. The times they are a changing. The minority will be the majority one day.

Sure Pete you had to bring up the horn-hook coupler What a disaster that was. I used to have them break on long trains, pull out of the coupler pocket and generally find countless other ways to create prototypical pile-ups. It was like a primitive form of Proto-Wreck.

The Lionel coupler is not much different as I've wired most shut on my yet to be converted cars so they don't pop open under load.

I don't see anyone lamenting the loss of the horn hook couplers at all. Those old Roco style couplers were the worst offenders in N. In that regard, the Atlas news of focusing on new coupler designs is welcome news indeed.

So when does the scale O MTH Proto-Coupler actually come out? Is this real for 2010? Hope so.

I also like the idea of KD-style on scale stuff. For a problem set(Pullman/Bradley)....How about just a drawbar? A bolt on one car to hold the bar and just a stud on the other. I had to use rubber cement to hold mine closed.

I think we (scale couplers on 3 rail) are still a minority. I did not go to York, but I am willing to take a chance and say there were more Lionel couplers there than people! lol.... Some day we will see more options for scale couplers.

Weaver makes a mounting bracket for their pullman/Bradley's, so just ask them for some. They are very basic and would be adaptable to other cars, or make your own from brass or plastic as I have.

Atlas and Weaver already have mounting spots for couplers. It's really easy to change over. Why would anyone want to pay more money for a car with scale couplers on it? The new Atlas O cars are already nearing the $65 each mark!

Seriously!!??! $65 bucks? for one car?
that hurts.

Dave 5000,

Let me offer a few points of information on your post above:

1) The vast majority of the folks that go to York twice a year generally are not the markerting focus point of 20" or 21" scale length passenger cars form Golden Gate Depot, Atlas,and/or Weaver, because they tend to have sharper than 072 curves, thus they would not be interested in scale size couplers. Those folks wouldn't be operating 20" or 21" passenger cars anyway, regardless of the coupler configuration.

2) As I mentioned in my post above, the vast majority of the buying market of 20" end 21" passenger cars are the 3RS and 2-Rail scale folks, plus the "Hi-Rail" operators with larger layours, most of whom are now going to scale couplers. Just ask Kadee how their sales of #805 O scale couplers has exploded in just the last 3 years.

3) Your comment about Weaver and Atlas have been offering scale coupler "mounting pads" is beacuse, the original market focus, over 10 years ago, of Weaver and Atlas O was to 2-Rail modelers, i.e. "Kadee coupler mounting pads" where a REQUIREMENT. Thus, those mounting pads/holes are still there on their 3-Rail rolling stock. However, that was mainly on freight rolling stock. It was NOT easy to body mount Kadee couplers on my Weaver Southern Pacific Pulman Bradley passenger cars, and they darned sure will NOT negoate any curve sharper than 072! It sure doesn't add anything to the price of a car, freight or passenger, from a company that was/is focusing on 2-Rail modelers.

4) Atlas O will be offering some sort of scale couplers on their 21" newly announced streamlined passenger cars. Thus, they are now "raising the bar"!!

Hey Hotwater,

1. yeah i agree.
2. also agree
3. yes their original focus was 2 rail which primarily uses Kadee couplers. Yes, mainly freight with Atlas. Weaver, well with my pullman bradleys were very easy to convert. How come yours were difficult? When were yours manufactured?
It may add more to the cost due to mixing 2/3 rail parts when assembled... Atlas now charges for adjust-a-coupler.
4. Yes, that is a good thing!

This thread continues to be relevant based on recent discussions on other forum about the apparent number of modelers who actually run these 21" cars with the large coupler. It would seem that even though the scale coupler might be the minority, it is the same minority that is purchasing these car sets for the most part. Being limited runs to start, it's not as if there are a huge amount of these in circulation.

Also, if anyone has not checked out the GGD E7 thread on the 2R side of the forum, it is worth a read. The discussion that 3RS and 2R interests are largely in alignment has been a good exchange of ideas. Together, these two admittedly minority modeling groups in this scale have a voice to make a difference.