I know they aren't 21" cars.... so sue me! They are however very very nice, and to my eye they look FAR better on O-80 or O-72 than 21" cars do. I picked up my first two car set of the B&O "Columbian" cars (Still looking for the 4 car set if anyone wants to sell it to me) and I really like them. I would however, like to shorten the coupling distance and maybe drop them about 1/16 - 1/8 inch if possible. Has anyone attempted modifications like this on these cars?

I just roll my eyes on the subject of "SCALE" passenger cars. A 21" passenger car equals 84'. That's fine for a modern lightweight streamliner but all passenger cars were not created equal. I took a quick look at some of my B&O passenger car drawings of typical heavyweights
. I also measuered the few passenger cars I have. I only deal in sill to sill lengths or as they say "over end sill".

The National Limited

baggage-dorm 70'
coach 70'
diner 79' 1 1/2"
sleeper 74' 6"

Others

Lunch counter coach 70'
club car 79' 1/2"

Cincinnatian These are coupled lengths over striker plates
baggage-lounge 76'3"
coach 79'5"
observation 79'4"

The Models measurements may off a fraction.

GGD sleeper 20 1/4" approx. equals 81'
GGD coach 19 1/2" 78'
K-line all cars 17 3/4" 71'
K-line lightweight
stremeliner all cars 21" 84'
Weaver baggage/RPO 12 1/4" 61'

To make a point real passenger cars vary in length depending on type and when built. Some K-line (18") cars like the baggage and coach could be considered scale length. But when you talk about details like number of windows that's a whole nother subject on the "cookie cutter" toy tran industry.

when I went through this research long ago I remember that B&O heavyweight passenger cars ranged from 70' (17.5") to 81' (20.25")

B&O
Joe

Thanks Joe. I was hoping you would weigh in. Have you done any mods like these on passenger cars before?

I am far less picky about scale fidelity as far as window placement, etc... Would it be nice? Sure! But as long as the paint is the right color and the details are nice I'm pretty easy to please. I love these Lionel cars! They are gorgeous and by far the best that Lionel has done to date (Note: I have not seen the new 21" TS cars yet) that I have seen.

Thanks, JoeW! I have always said that passenger cars should not be sold in sets because all of the cars are the same. Real passenger cars are different from one another.

quote:

Originally posted by jonnyspeed:
Thanks Joe. I was hoping you would weigh in. Have you done any mods like these on passenger cars before?

I am far less picky about scale fidelity as far as window placement, etc... Would it be nice? Sure! But as long as the paint is the right color and the details are nice I'm pretty easy to please. I love these Lionel cars! They are gorgeous and by far the best that Lionel has done to date (Note: I have not seen the new 21" TS cars yet) that I have seen.

Sorry, I was going to talk about that but went off on my rant. haven't added scale couplers to a K-Line yet but have one old baggage car in the works that will get scale couplers for my 3RS train. For the 3RS car I'm planning to do what I did to the GGD cars. But if I were to add scale couplers to K-Line passenger train I would make a long extention similar to the what I did to GGD cars for the Kadee couplers and mount them back on the trucks. A hard way I've dreamed up would be to cut the K-line coupler shank half way back from the coupler. Most hobby shops carry K&S or other brand of brass rectangular tube stock that would be a close fit to accept a Kadee or Atlas coupler shank. I use orphan Atlas couplers on my passenger cars. Coupler would be held in the brass tube by a small screw through the coupler spring pocket. On the other end I would machine down the cut off K-Line coupler shank to accept the brass tube which also would be held on by a screw through the coupler shank. Could also make it adjustible by drilling a few hole in the coupler shank or brass tube. Getting the proper coupler height would be the trick in milling down the shank. Top, bottom or both. I really hesitate going into this stuff because few modelers have a mini machine shop. Some do. But the basic ideas are there. There's more than one way to skin a K-Lion.

As for matching paint. You're lucky if the manufacturers come close. I do B&O and the shades of blue, grey and black do vary some. Sometimes way off my the same manufacturer as K-line did. For passenger cars, unless you model PRR, NYC, SF or WM your going to have to settle for close as far as accurate details.

Here's to putting Baltimore and Ohio on an Erie Triplex.

B&O
Joe

I've mentioned this on the 3R forum, but it is really more applicable to the 3RS forum. Prototypical passenger cars almost never matched in color other than the day they arrived from the manufacturer. Based on shop repair and repaint schedules, where the car was stored, etc. the colors rarely matched. I don't personally worry about colors matching too much.

As to what is scale and what is not, one simply needs to know their prototype. While I may be no expert on diesels or freight cars, I do take my passenger cars quite seriously as that's what I grew up around!

That's just me however, there is room in this hobby for lots of approaches.

jonnyspeed,

Picked up a piece of brass K&S tubing today and tried the conversion on my K-line car. Didn't take long and used basic tools. The round tubing I used for centering was an after thought and only 1/2 worked. When I get back to it I'll solder on a M shaped brass piece and then drill the hole in the middle.
I don't have any Lionel cars. This is close as I can get.



B&O
Joe

4788:

Even the PRR had problems with paint colors from batch to batch, and one repair place might have a slighly different color than another. Even from the same company. Even new cars from the plant hae this problem.