Check out this awesome tandum. Man I just can't get enough of these fixed pilot scale wheel engines. MTH... keep them coming!



Of coarse we heard from a thread on the other forum that the prototypes hoods are flat, but then found that the prototypes with the road number modeled by MTH have angled hoods. Maybe the angle is slightly larger that the prototype, but it doesn't bother me, I think the engine looks good.



There is more of a gap than I expected, however it is very hard to notice with these black engines. You have to get on eye level with the gap and a bright background to see it. Again, either way, it doesn't bother me that much because the fixed pilot makes up for it. Check out the photos on my site and judge for yourself. I will not be lowering these. The coupler height matches the atlas cars perfectly, and the tank looks like the perfect height, riding nice and low.



The sounds are awesome, the horn is obviously made from a recording of a real engine because it sounds so realistic. The shut down sequence is also new in that it takes longer and is so realistic you would think you were standing next to a real one while it shuts down. These two units ran beautifully and looked great pulling the container train.

Only a few small issues.

One is that I had to cut the Kadee #805 metal coupler box again to clear the hi-rail coupler mount (ring) on the truck.

The other is that the screw threads in snow plow mounts (spacers) were deep into the mount where the screws could not reach, and thus why I don't have the plow on. MTH will need to supply longer screws to mount the snow plow. This was true on both engines, and the snow plow mount on the back (mounts on back since it can run long hood forward) was correct on both engines. So this was a small oversight but easy to fix with a longer screw.

I look forward to weathering and videoing these great engines.

Rich.
www.toytrainsontracks.com

Rich,
They look great. I was just on the phone with Mr. Jim Sutter and asked him if he had any left, he told me "someone" bought all that he had??

Rich, that is quite an awesome tandem - unreal!! Very, very nice!! One question- do the scale-rail versions come with hi-rail couplers, or Kadee-style couplers? thanks in advance,

Hey John,

Try EngineHouseHobbies, I think they have one in stock. Call them at 301-590-0816 and ask for Ron or Lucy.

Rich

Rich,
Nice looking pair of Dash 8 40C's- I can understand why you bought two. They not only look good together, but you need at least two engines to pull a long train with the scale wheelsets (not what most 3-railers are used to but it's prototypical).

I picked up a UP SD-70ACe from Jim- now I understand why the other 3RS guys were going gaga over this engine when it came out. The fixed pilot, scale wheels and coupler really go a long towards making the model look more real (even if the frame beams and fuel tank are incorrect).

Geno

Jeff,

Yeah, MTH did a great job, I really like these engines. To answer your question, the Kadee couplers do not come with these engines and you'll have to buy them seperately and install them yourself. The engines ship in a 2-rail configuration, so you will also have to screw on the pick up rollers and throw a switch.

Depending on the interest or if there is a big enough market, I think MTH will ship these engines with hi-rail wheels, Kadee couplers installed, pick up rollers install (3-rail configuration) so you can just take them out of the box and run them.

Here is an interesting thing I noticed. The owners manual describes how to remove the pick up rollers and throw the switch to 2 rail for 2 rail operation as if the engine is shipped in 3-rail configuration. I don't know if the manual for these fixed pilot (-2) versions alway had that, or if they just changed it in anticipation of shipping them in 3 rail configuration??

I know there has been dissussion about this, so if anyone is interested in this and you havn't posted your opinion, you should do so now because I know they are listening and waiting to see it there is enough interest.

Ideally, for guys like me, I would also like to see a "-4" version which ships with fixed pilot, Kadee couplers, and the scale wheels. Otherwise, I would have to buy the scale wheels and swap them out.

What does everyone think?

Rich.

Rich,

Very nice engines, and thanks for posting the photos. I have a UP on order, and eagerly await it. I seem to recall someone mentioning that MTH said the Kadee 806 short box coupler is what they have in mind for the fixed pilot engines and presumably that wouldn't need trimming.

I too hope that MTH will offer these fixed pilot diesels ready to run with high rail wheels and rollers installed. Keep posting those pictures, they can only help grow interest in fixed pilots.

RM

Rich,

The 806 may be short enough to work, but I don't know, I haven't tried it. The main reason I haven't used it is because it is plastic and I wanted to use the metal couplers. To my surprise, the plastic ones are more expensive than the metal ones ?? Go figure.

Rich.

Rich B,
I read here on the forum somewhere that MTH is wourking on a scale electrocoupler for the scale wheeled models- a better option than DIY Kadees, but at least those work with 3-rail couplers. I doubt MTH's version would be so compatible.

I personally think the -2 models are fine just the way the come from the factory (with the exception of the coupler- should be at least included if not installed). I have nothing against anyone wanting to run a -2 versus the 3-rail version, but those of us who prefer scale wheels shouldn't have to pay for it- the -2 version already costs more.

The first thing I did to my SD-70 ACe was put the rollers on and switch it to 3-rail. It didn't like the Gargraves track at AGHR too much (it derailed every time I hit a kink in the track) but I'm sure it will run very smooth on Atlas code 148. I gather that your engines are running well on MTH's Scaletrax- care to share your observations on this?

Geno

quote:

Originally posted by Rich Battista:

Only a few small issues.

One is that I had to cut the Kadee #805 metal coupler box again to clear the hi-rail coupler mount (ring) on the truck.

Rich.

Thanks for the reveiw Rich. I have found that the short draft gear Kadee #806 couplers (made of plastic) fit perfectly on the MTH 3/2 diesels. I have also heard that Kadee recommends the plastic couplers for locomotives partly because they are less susceptable to breakage mounted on locomotives than the metal ones.

Geno,

Yes, these engine run smoothly on all my track with no issues. Note that I have a minimum O-72 curves. The engines also run well through the all switches , #4, #6 and O-72. Even my scale wheel Atlas Gunderstack cars run without a problem except for a small dip in the frog of the switches.

There are some things you need to do, however to make sure they run well. The track must remain flat between straight and curves, particularly through the O-72 switches. If the curve slops down out of a straight, the forward wheel will climb the curved rail since the flanges are so small. This has happened in several places on my layout, and I had to adjust the track to get it to work. I used a straight edge to make sure the track remains flat w.r.t the top of the rails between the straight and curved sections. This is not a problem for changes in angle (or grade) between straight tracks.

I have had other problems not related to the scale wheels themselves. I lowered some engines because of the gap and created a problem with the snow plow hitting the switch machines when mounted on the outside.

These two engines I did not and do not have to lower and they run throughout my layout with the scale wheels. I'm very happy about that.

Rich.

quote:

I have also heard that Kadee recommends the plastic couplers for locomotives partly because they are less susceptable to breakage mounted on locomotives than the metal ones

I've heard that too, and all of my Atlas diesels converted to fixed pilots and Kadees have plastic couplers. I actually broke an Atlas scale coupler on a mid-consist dummy unit when the powered units briefly got out of directional sync. Otherwise, I prefer metal Kadees as well.

Two additional comments: First a remote automatic scale coupler would be icing on the cake, but MTH has to do it right. It has to be scale, look scale, and not stick out unrealistically far from the engine. Otherwise, its really not worth doing either for two railers or for three rail scalers. Remote couplers are nice to have, but for the scale operator remote function is secondary to appearance. Second, Geno, I would like to see fixed pilot diesels factory equipped with three rail wheels, but as an option, not in lieu of the scale wheel models (which obviously have their own appeal). I'd love to run the six axle diesels with scale wheels, but I'm not sure my track work is up to the challenge....

RM

Rich B,
Which engines did you lower, the SD-70 ACes? Was it worth the effort in doing it to make the gap less noticeable? I was looking at the gap under my ACe and was thinking it might be better instead to replace the incorrect beam frame with a wider one, and transfer the detailing to that new beam. The fuel tank would need to be replaced as well- alot of work but it would yield the perfect SD-70Ace model.

The scale-wheel models sure seem to demnad precise track laying, but I think the look is worth it. I'm thinking of converting my fleet of Atlas Dash 8 40-Bs and GP-35s to 2-rail TMCC, since Atlas now offers that program for those engines as well. How well do your 2-rail TMCC Atlas engines run on scaletrax?

Geno

Rich M,
How do you like those Kadee 806's? Are there any real differences in appearance versus the 805's? I totally agree with you on MTH's development of a scale electrocoupler- they need to get it right before the introduce it on any -2 model, and it has to mate with Kadees and Atlas couplers with no problems otherwise it isn't even worth the bother.

What 3-rail Atlas engines have you converted to fixed pilot and scale wheels? Jerry Kimble over at the Atlas Forum tells me the conversion is for advanced hobbyists, but I think I could handle it without destroying any of my engines. How hard was it in your opinion to add the fixed pilots, handrails, ans scale wheelsets?

Geno

ChessieMan,

B.T.W. thanks for the info on the coupler, I will try the plastic ones.

Geno,

I lowered both my SD70Aces and it was a pain. If I had to do it over I think I would try to widen the beam. I've order the NS SD70M and I'm hoping the gap has improved. We'll see.

I wouldn't call the track laying precise, rather careful. If the wood you lay the track on is flat, you should have no problem.

I don't have any Atlas 2 rail engines because they are truly 2 rail. I never set up my track to run 2 rail, although I probably could, at least on some of it.

Rich.

Rich B,
The beam frame on the MTH model appears to be a fascia- I think a more scale version could be constructed from styrene and the detail from the MTH version transferred. a wider beam would of course lower the fuel tank (probably too low), requiring a whole new fuel tank. I'd probably order a Lionel one at that point and modify it to fit.

I think if I do convert my Atlas diesels to fixed pilots, scale wheels and couplers it will be in the same manner as I treated my MTH SD-70ACe- I'll keep the center pickups on them, leave the 2-rail jumper off and they will still be 3-rail engines in essence. When I set up my studrail test loop the wiring was basic 3-rail, and the TMCC engines didn't know they were running on scale track or picking up power off a studrail- they ran just just like they were on 3-rail track.

It's a bit ridiculous to have to do any kitbashing at all on a new diesel, considering what they cost- at least your Dash-8 40C's look good out of the box. Do you know if MTH is coming out with a UP version?

Geno

Geno,

There is a UP version. For some reason it seems to be lagging just behind the others, but I think they are just shipping from MTH. I have one on order.

As far as Kadees, I've not used the 806, at least not yet. For my Atlas fixed pilot conversions I used the regular plastic Kadee (the plastic ones come in black, red and brown). I've installed them on GP 60s, 60Ms and 60bs as well as Dash 8 40BWs. They've worked fine. The EOB speed control tends to pull the couplers tight between units, but I've never had a consist come apart.

By the way, your plan for Atlas conversions should be feasible. Although the truck blocks are different on Atlas two rail and three rail models, the wheelsets are interchangeable. From now on any Atlas dummy units I order will be two rail models and I will just look to swap the wheels. It eases the pain of pilot conversion. Maybe down the road we can swap some wheels.

RM

Rich M,
I'm glad Atlas had the wisdom to build the O gauge diesels on a common platform and make 2 and 3 rail wheelsets interchangeable. I would have converted my Atlas fleet sooner if I had known the parts were readily available, and the conversion could be done outside the factory. Does the fixed pilot have holes drilled for Kadees?

What kind of track do you use on your layout? I already know Gargraves track is not well suited for 3RS scale-wheeled engines, and that most modern 3-rail diesels have flanges shallow enough to run on code 148 track without touching the ties. Despite the better pulling power of traction-tired 3-rail wheelsets, I prefer the look of scale wheelsets- I will add engines just like the real railroads do if my trains need more tractive effort. I will let you know if and when I have the 3-rail engine wheelsets to swap with you.

BTW, how difficult did you find the pilot swap conversions difficult on the Dash 8 40-BWs and GP-60Ms? I'm assuming they're similar to the Dash 840-Bs and GP-35s.

Geno

I have both MTH and Atlas Dash 8s. I would love to install 2 rail wheel sets on them. Would any of you like to trade your two rail trucks for my three rail trucks?

quote:

Originally posted by Lisa Marie Tahtaras:
I have both MTH and Atlas Dash 8s. I would love to install 2 rail wheel sets on them. Would any of you like to trade your two rail trucks for my three rail trucks?

Lisa Marie--

You have mail.

Geno,

I use Atlas track. I found that the 2 rail GP 60 dummy ran fine (my curves are 072 and 081) except for some derailments on the diverging route of # 5 turnouts. That's the biggest problem I foresee with running 2 rail wheels on three rail track --the three rail turnout design. Interestingly, the GP had no problem through diverging routes of 072 turnouts.

The Dash 8-40B conversion is pretty much the same process as the 8-40BW (which I have done). There is a different spacer part that is used for the two models because the frame contour is slightly different. You also order a part with the name of "pilot" support" or something like that (the part names are sometimes confusing). This part fills the oversize hole in the pilot and provides the mounting platform for the coupler. There is a single untapped hole for an Atlas coupler. I drilled and tapped my own for Kadees. I've not done a GP 35 (yet), but I think its probably pretty much the same as the GP 60. You order a separate pilot. The GP 60s have locations in the two rail pilot for mounting couplers. You need to tap them wiht a 2mm tap. The mounts are slightly off for Kadees, but working carefully you can work the screws down to mount the Kadees.

To do the Dash 8s, you need to remove the three rail pilot and cut off the tab that mounts it to the truck. You also need to tap the holes in the frame with a 3 mm tap (be sure to get a tap wrench if you don't have one). The "pilot support" mounts underneath and fills the oversize pilot hole and the spacer on top to fill the gap. Then it mounts with 3mm screws (I forget the length). As I say, I custom drilled the holes for the Kadees on my Dash 8s. I think Kadees are a little high on that engine, so I shimmed them. On the GP 60s, they come out right at NMRA height.

Then there's the problem of handrails. If available, you can order the parts from Atlas, or make your own from brass wire or paper clips. The Dash 8s don't use a lot of extra parts, but the GP 60s do. You can pull ofg most of the detail parts, like steps and MU hoses, and reuse them but you need to order the top most steps for the two rail pilots, MU cable mounts and maybe some other things. If I get the time, I may just pull together a list of the needed parts and outline the process for those interested. The results are well worth it. Notice in one of these photos the GP 60M with converted pilots compared to the GP 60B with three rail pilots and couplers. Once you start down this road, its hard to go back (the 60B has since been converted as well).

Lisa Marie, I have a set of two rail wheelsets pulled of a GP 60 dummy, I can trade for three rail wheelsets. The dash 8s and GP 60s use the same wheels, and as I say the two rail and three rail wheelsets are interchaneable.

Oops,

Here's the Dash 8 photo:

Rich M,
Nice work on those fixed pilot conversions. If the the hardest thing is tapping holes or cutting parts off, I think I should be able to handle it. BTW, where would be a good source to get the 2 and 3 mm taps and screws?

I don't have any GP-60Ms, but I do have 3 Dash-8 40Bs, a BW, a couple of GP-35s and a GP-15. I think if I could convert all of these it would make for a really nice 2-rail TMCC roster.

Ever post pics of your layout anywhere? Looks good.

Geno

Rich,

That sounds good to me. Please E-mail me at the address in my profile. Thank you.


Chessie Man,

I have not received your E-mail.