Looks like the upgrade/ patch maybe close. Just noticed that Manual V1.2 is online. One of the things changed is the "Sleep Timer" on page 41.

Also reference to V1.2 in the software upgrading section on page 59.

Still looking for other changes. I posted this in the main forum as well for more exposure.

If you haven't registered Legacy yet I would do so ASAP!

I noticed they have part numbers for things such as the Module Garage and the Powermaster bridge, I don't remember that being in there before.

They also mention a Black Module that is user writable, but do not really say what can be done with it.

Having briefly read the new manual on-line two things come to mind.

1. The MTH system of software updates is a much better system from the point of view of MTH because it costs practically nothing to distribute it. It is better for the user too, but because it is so much better for MTH see number 2. below. (Better for the user because he gets it fast and it's free.)

2. I suspect that we will be paying for all future Legacy updates. The first one I know is free, but I am thinking there is no way they can continue to produce all those little modules and mail them out to everyone. That is so 1990's. The reason that distribution model is obsolete is because it is so expensive.

At some point, I would like a real complete printed instruction manual too for DCS and Legacy. Maybe they could offer those for sale.

quote:

1. The MTH system of software updates is a much better system from the point of view of MTH because it costs practically nothing to distribute it. It is better for the user too, but because it is so much better for MTH see number 2. below. (Better for the user because he gets it fast and it's free.)

The biggest advantage of doing it this way, although a little cumbersome to get to the end user, is that it takes all computers, interfaces, internet issues, and individuals (except for actually inserting the module and following directions) out of the process. Case in point the many DCS users who have issues with software, computers and such upgrading DCS. It's getting better but still a PITA for some. Not saying this makes it better but is one advantage.

I imagine that the cost of mailing these would be the biggest expense.

Page 41 of v1.2 also indicates now (or perhaps not until you receive the update and load it) that you can select backlighting to always remain on. 1=alway off, up to 5=3 minutes (the old limit), and now 6=always on. With the drain on batteries duly noted.

quote:

1. The MTH system of software updates is a much better system from the point of view of MTH because it costs practically nothing to distribute it. It is better for the user too, but because it is so much better for MTH see number 2. below. (Better for the user because he gets it fast and it's free.)

Plus the fact that many of us don't use a Windows PC which is the only way to "upgrade" DCS, no? Gimme a module which I can use anywhere, anytime.

Could Lionel at a point in time (I believe this was mentioned previously on the forum) give/sell a writable module which could then be used to download info?

Joe

~Long Live Lionel~

This message has been edited. Last edited by: joemums,

Joe.

If I recall correctly Barry has stated that he uses his MAC!

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Originally posted by PRRronbh:
Joe.

If I recall correctly Barry has stated that he uses his MAC!

That is correct. I think he uses Virtual PC with a USB to serial adapter.

quote:

Could Lionel at a point in time (I believe this was mentioned previously on the forum) give/sell a writable module which could then used to download info?

The black modules are supposed to be read/ write. We have little info on them.

As far as a software download, I imagine they program them some how so I would suspect there is a interface to the modules from a computer. Whether or not Lionel chooses to manufacturer and release a device is uncertain.

quote:

Originally posted by PRRronbh:
Joe.

If I recall correctly Barry has stated that he uses his MAC Mac!

To use DCS and a Mac you would have to have Windows installed using Boot Camp, VM Ware or Parallels and a USB to Serial port adapter (for both Mac and PC)This would be many times the cost of a few modules.

Ideally they would have both but while I am very comfortable with downloading then installing software, many are not (I deal with those everyday at work)

If you look at some of the DCS posting there was much confusion about the DCS loader app and the upgrade. So if you are only going to have one, I vote for modules

Upgrading to DCS is not trivial. I would guess that a significant portion of the train hobby population is unable to do the upgrades.

I think Lionel knew this and decided to make the modules.

They do not assume that just because you are a train hobbyist you are also a computer hobbyist as well.

Remember that the hobbyists we meet here are all computer savvy. I know a number of train guys who are not.

quote:

Upgrading to DCS is not trivial. I would guess that a significant portion of the train hobby population is unable to do the upgrades.

That is correct Bill, but upgrades are done at dealers, shows, and we do them at the club for members.

My major concern with the Lionel system is the distribution of the upgrades. Seems the Lionel method of having to mail out a chip is going to mean they have to burn the chip and send it out to people. That is going to cost money at some point.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Katz:
That is correct Bill, but upgrades are done at dealers, shows, and we do them at the club for members.

but upgrades are done at dealers .. No my LHS has no clue how to do it. In fact his computer is at his house behind the shop. While I seldom frequent the other LHS that carries MTH, the few times I was there he doesn't seem to promote either remote system, so I doubt he does upgrades.

Shows. We have one major train show a year here.. And it's primarily HO, Never have seen an DCS upgrade offered.

and we do them at the club for members. OK 2 years ago one guy in the club offered to do upgrades for the members, but never heard any offers since.

As far as I can tell the modules will not be tied to any one base, so all the above applies to Legacy as well. In fact it may be easier to carry a MM to a friends house or club layout to do an upgrade, than to try to get the software downloaded/installed and connect everything to a computer that hopefully is available.

I do agree the potential cost does bother me, and I hope Lionel avoids falling into the big dollar upgrade trap. Also I hope they make the upgrades downloadable for those of us who are more computer savvy.

quote:

Originally posted by PRRronbh:
Joe.

If I recall correctly Barry has stated that he uses his Mac!

Wow now I think I like this Barry guy.

I would guess that the Legacy modules are based on some existing tech
like a usb flash with a proprietary connector. If this were the case the cost of a 256K module would be pretty cheap. Maybe you would be able to pick up the module at your local hobby shop for cost or get it mailed to you.

quote:

Also I hope they make the upgrades downloadable for those of us who are more computer savvy.

Chris,
That would require some sort of interface between the computer and the MM or computer and Legacy which no one has indicated is in the works.

The potential cost is what prompted my original post. At some point we are going to be paying to get a pre-programmed memory module, plus shipping and handling of course.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Katz:

quote:

Also I hope they make the upgrades downloadable for those of us who are more computer savvy.

Chris,
That would require some sort of interface between the computer and the MM or computer and Legacy which no one has indicated is in the works.

That is an unanswered question.

However they could not even need a loader like MTH has. An example is my digital camera. I simply download a .bin file to my CF card, when the camera goes into programming mode it knows to find the file on the card and load it. It is real similar to what we do now with Legacy MM's

So the only real item that might be needed is a way to transfer the file from your computer to the MM. It could be as simple as a MM to USB cable (I haven't tried plugging an MM into a USB port, but I do not think it would fit) The other question would be what format the MM are in. Hopefully it's like a typical memory stick and formatted using FAT and both Macs and PC's can write to.

But this is all wishful thinking, and for the present MM's are the way to upgrade. And like I said above, hopefully Lionel has considered the price and will not go the way of expensive upgrades

quote:

That is an unanswered question.

The Base has a serial port. The Memory Modules (Black) are writable. Many ways to deliver an upgrade are possible...

quote:

The Base has a serial port. The Memory Modules (Black) are writable. Many ways to deliver an upgrade are possible... Big Grin

Jon...you da' man!

Joe

~Long Live Lionel~

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The Base has a serial port.

Yes, I forgot about that. But can we talk to it?

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Originally posted by SantaFeFan:

quote:

That is an unanswered question.

The Base has a serial port. The Memory Modules (Black) are writable. Many ways to deliver an upgrade are possible...

Me thinks something is up

But please stay away from serial communications.. lets stick with USB via cable to module or serial port, please do not make us search for some serial port adapter for the machine (I actually think I threw the one I had away about a year ago)

The Black "Writable User module" had been identified in previous Manual.

quote:

Originally posted by cbojanower:
But please stay away from serial communications. Lets stick with USB via cable to module or serial port, please do not make us search for some serial port adapter for the machine

I second that motion.
Serial ports are a dieing form of communication.
Jon please join the 21st century.

USB is serial.

quote:

Originally posted by penn station:
USB is serial.

OK you are right, it is serial, but then lets stay away from using the old style serial connection