I was looking for a way to control all of my various TMCC and conventional locos from a wireless throttle. On the advice of forum members, I selected the following:
CAB-1
TMCC Command Base
135W Powerhouse brick transformer
TPC 300 track power controller

I received everything but a command cable a couple of weeks ago, so I set it up to run TMCC only. (no TPC 300)

All of my TMCC locos ran fine.

My cable came in this week, so I hooked up the TPC, and all of my conventional locos ran fine.

Then I decided to run the TMCC locos through my TPC. I selected TR 1 L, and the LED did not flash. I selected SET and the LED didn't light. I've now tried everything in the book, but I can't get the TPC to do anything. Nothing will light the LEDs, and no trains will function in conventional or command.

The command base runs the TMCC locos if I don't use the TPC, and I can run my conventional locos on my layout with a transformer. The Powerhouse transformer is putting out power, I've checked the wiring, and I can't bring the TPC back to life.

If anybody has any ideas, I would greatly appreciate any help.

Thank you,
Rick

Check wires, if they are ok, press train 1 L set for command, or trn 1 m set for conventional. If that don't work, try Aux 1, Aux2 0. Then program for command or conventional.

Bill

quote:

My cable came in this week, so I hooked up the TPC, and all of my conventional locos ran fine.

Then I decided to run the TMCC locos through my TPC. I selected TR 1 L, and the LED did not flash. I selected SET and the LED didn't light. I've now tried everything in the book, but I can't get the TPC to do anything. Nothing will light the LEDs, and no trains will function in conventional or command.

Kind of sounds to me like the TMCC cable to the TPC is not making a good connection at the TPC. Check out that the Red (data) and green) common are making contact on the TPC side, The wire are very fine on the cable I had and didn't make a good connection. Good luck

Thanks Bill,

OK, I've disconnected everything and reconnected it. I tried the key sequences according to the manual, including the sequence you suggested. Still nothing. Any other insight?

Thanks,
Rick

Rick

Address the TPC as Tr 1, Aux1, Aux2, 0. Press Tr 1 L set. Then press TR 1 Boost. If nothing happens, you might have a bad Tpc. Let me know

Bill

Running out of ideas, Does the command base led's flash,
Is there a circuit breaker on the TPC? check it out.
Try new batteries in the cab-1.
Do you have power on the input side of the TPC.

OK, I checked the command base cable for continuity, and it's fine. The batteries are brand new E3 lithium batteries. The command base light flashes when I use the CAB1. (In fact, the TMCC locos work fine when I don't use the TPC.) I have input power at the TPC. The circuit breaker is still in.

I've tried the commands, although I still get no lights.

I keep coming back to the TPC being dead. All I did was try to go from conventional to command. Should that cause such a problem? The rubber tires on my wheelchair sometimes cause a static charge to build up when the humidity is low. Could a static charge have killed it? Then again, the humidity isn't very low right now.

Rick

quote:

I keep coming back to the TPC being dead. All I did was try to go from conventional to command. Should that cause such a problem? The rubber tires on my wheelchair sometimes cause a static charge to build up when the humidity is low. Could a static charge have killed it? Then again, the humidity isn't very low right now.

I doubt it's a static related problem, I 'm guessing you tried giving the TPC and new ID number with the run/programing switch as described on page 8 of the TPC manual

Yeah, I tried reassigning the ID# of the TPC, but I don't get the confirmation flashes.

Rick

I think maybe you need another TPC. You checked and done everything, I can't thick of anything else that might help.

Bill

That's what I feared. It's the answer I was expecting, but not the one I wanted. I was hoping for an answer like, "This is how to reset it." ...or maybe, "This is just the part you need to fix it." Oh, well, I guess it's back to transformer control for a while.

Now, does anybody want a great deal on a genuine Lionel paperweight?

Thanks so much for the help, guys.

Rick

quote:

Yeah, I tried reassigning the ID# of the TPC, but I don't get the confirmation flashes.

When things were 'running properly', were you using the CAB1 to control the track voltage through the TPC? Did the TRACK LED respond as indicated on page 13 of the manual.

If the COMM(unications) LED isn't flashing when you turn the knob, try all of the 9 possible TR addresses. (You could also have set it to any of the 99 Engine addresses, too!)

Did you have power applied to the TPC when you were reprogramming it?

I was using the CAB1 to control track voltage, but I honestly don't know if the LED was increasing in intensity with an increase of track voltage. Since the trains were running fine, I didn't look at the TPC.

I've now tried all 108 possible ID#s with no success. (...and no flashes to say I've assignes another address.) The Powerhouse was on, and I have power at the input of the TPC.

Are the TPCs particularly fragile or unreliable? ...not that I've dropped it or anything, but it may have been handled roughly during shipping, although it worked when I was in conventional mode. What's frustrating is that all was fine until I tried to switch to command mode.

Thanks,
Rick

Rick,

One thing to try is with the power on keep playing with the circiut breaker on the tpc. Sometimes they don't reset with just one push.


Doug

Rick
Sometimes you have to hold the circuit breaker in just for a few seconds to reset the breaker.

I have two tpc 300 since 1998 and they have worked great and taken some punishment at times.

Well, I fiddled with the circuit breaker, and still nothing. I opened the case and checked the continuity from one circuit breaker terminal to the other, and it was fine. I put it back together, and STILL no signs of life. Thanks for all the help.

Rick

quote:

I put it back together, and STILL no signs of life. Thanks for all the help.

Bummer, It never fail to happen when you're trying to set up something for the first time. Having faulty equipment doesn't help and makes it down right impossible.. Hope the thing is under warranty Better luck with the new one.

Some quick trouble shooting ideas. First I would try different batteries (brand new) in the CAB-1 and be sure the batteries are seated properly and correct polarity. Also have you checked the input and output voltages to the TPC. The input will tell you if the power brick is OK and the output if the TPC is functioning at all. Check right at the terminals to the TPC. Is the connection from the TMCC base to the TPC OK and the serial end (DB-9) seated properly. You might check for continuity on the DB-9 to Red and Green Wires. It sounds like the Command Base and TPC are not communicating or the TPC is bad. Do you know if the CAB-1 is OK? RW Green

Well, the batteries are brand new Lithiums, and the CAB1 operates the command base to run my TMCC locos just fine. I checked the voltage at the input and output of the TPC, and it reads 19.35V in, 0V out. I checked the continuity of the command cable, and both ends are connected tightly. I keep going over and over everything, and I'm pretty certain it's the TPC.

Thanks,
Rick

I had this happen too. I took the TCP apart. Unplug the circuit board and clean the end contacts and put it back together. I hope it helps.
Jim D.

OK, Jim, it's as apart as I can take it, but unless I'm missing something, my board doesn't unplug. It looks like it's all soldered together. The only thing I can unplug is the circuit breaker.

I have one more question. Is it possible that the command base is sending a signal throuch its single wire to the track, but it's not sending a signal throught the serial port? I don't know how to check the actual signal coming through the cable from the command base. I might have to take the command base and TPC to the local club and have them plugged into their system.

Rick

quote:

I might have to take the command base and TPC to the local club and have them plugged into their system.

Yes that's a very good idea, My TPC is long gone but lets say the cable is not making very good contact with the data / com connection. I had to solder a short piece of solid wire to the data /com wires to make good connections.

Shouldn't the green led on the tpc light up anyway if the thing is getting transformer voltage on the input side?? or does the cable control the leds???

I have one of the first TCP's that was made. Maybe they change the design. Check with a volt meter to see where the voltage is going in and where it stops. Check the circuit breaker for continuity. I hope you can make it work.
Jim D.

quote:

I had to solder a short piece of solid wire to the data /com wires to make good connections

I always "tin" stranded wire before making a connection. I learned this the "hard way" when I was a kid and was almost electrocuted because of a strand of wire was making contact with the Coax connector. RW Green

quote:

Originally posted by Gregg:
Shouldn't the green led on the tpc light up anyway if the thing is getting transformer voltage on the input side?? or does the cable control the leds???

That's a very good question.

My command cable is brand new, so the ends of the wire were tinned at the factory, and I've checked it for continuity.

The Circuit breaker seems fine. I've tried wiggling and shaking it, and I haven't experienced a break in the continuity beep on my multi-tester.

I would check for power deeper into the TPC, but I'm no electronics expert, so I have no idea how much voltage I should be looking for once I'm on the board. Is there anything in there that I can harm if I put the voltmeter on it?

I have no idea how the command base works using only one wire to control the command equipped locos, but it seems to work. Is there any way to SAFELY check the signal from the red and green wires of the command base cable using a multi-tester, or are they also this type of single wire control? I want to make sure that I won't do more damage trying to test them.

Rick

The Command Base signal from the serial port is an RS-232-like signal. If it were true RS-232 you could verify that the data line when idle was ~ -10V relative to the ground line. I don't think the original Command Base was true RS-232 though, so I'm not sure what it would read.

The ground line on the command base cable should be connected ultimately to the third prong (earth ground) on the Command Base power plug. You could check for continuity between the ground line and the third prong of the power plug (OUT OF THE SOCKET FIRST!!).

If you have a PC with a DB-9 RS-232 serial port you could see if there are serial signals coming out of the command base, but such things are scarce nowadays. If you had a DZ-2001 data wire driver you could see if it lights up when commands are transmitted to the command base. Finally, an oscilloscope would work. But I have a feeling none of those suggestions are going to be useful for you.

Do make sure that the "COM" associated with the "DAT" terminal on the TPC is hooked up only to the ground line coming out of the Command Base, not layout common (outside rail).

Well, I've checked everything I could. All wiring is where the manual says it should be. Everything has been checked for continuity. I really have no way to check the serial port signal. Thanks for trying, though.

Rick

Ricomon Please let us know when you take to your TPC, Cable, Command Base and Cab-1 to your Club Layout for testing. RW Green

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ricomon:
I was using the CAB1 to control track voltage, but I honestly don't know if the LED was increasing in intensity with an increase of track voltage. Since the trains were running fine, I didn't look at the TPC.


so try this tr 1 then push m for conventional now turn red knob on cab 1 on tpc does the green led light come on brighter as your turning the knob? if yes then tpc is good.

I read in first post you said no led light is on the tpc correct?
if so this means theres no communication to it from the cab base to dat\com on tpc.
do you have a db-9 connector make your own cable and see if it works if so your new cable may be the culprit. hope this helps as if your not communicating with the tpc it won't respond not to set a tpc id# not anything.

just a thought have you tried switching the wires for dat\com I never used the cable from lionel so not sure they mark them as to who goes where but maybe they just mismarked them crazier things have happened before worth a try. $oo

Sounds to me like the TPC isn't turned on. Try tr or eng + id number then press Boost. That should turn on the power.

quote:

Originally posted by ricomon:
I was looking for a way to control all of my various TMCC and conventional locos from a wireless throttle. On the advice of forum members, I selected the following:
CAB-1
TMCC Command Base
135W Powerhouse brick transformer
TPC 300 track power controller

I received everything but a command cable a couple of weeks ago, so I set it up to run TMCC only. (no TPC 300)

All of my TMCC locos ran fine.

My cable came in this week, so I hooked up the TPC, and all of my conventional locos ran fine.

Then I decided to run the TMCC locos through my TPC. I selected TR 1 L, and the LED did not flash. I selected SET and the LED didn't light. I've now tried everything in the book, but I can't get the TPC to do anything. Nothing will light the LEDs, and no trains will function in conventional or command.

The command base runs the TMCC locos if I don't use the TPC, and I can run my conventional locos on my layout with a transformer. The Powerhouse transformer is putting out power, I've checked the wiring, and I can't bring the TPC back to life.

If anybody has any ideas, I would greatly appreciate any help.

Thank you,
Rick

Rick

What kind of a cable did you use to hook the Power house to the TPC. I had a lionel cable with a bad end

Bob

OK, I've tried just about everything. ...repeatedly.

$oo Line, nothing will give me lights on the TPC. I can't find another DB-9, but my cable WAS working at one time, and I've checked for continuity. Still, I tried switching the wires and still got nothing.

Trainman 129, I've tried every possible track ID and engine ID, but no luck.

Robert Jr, I'm using the Lionel power cable from the cable set. I've checked the voltage at the TPC connections, and it's fine.

I'll be visiting the local train club on Thursday, humbly begging for them to try my equipment to see exactly what has failed. I'll let you know what they say.

Thanks,
Rick

Well, I took my CAB1, Command Base, power supply, and TPC to the local club this evening. Boy, do I feel like an idiot. I told the TMCC expert what had happened, he plugged it all in, looked at it, and he said he knew exactly what was wrong. He reset the ID on the TPC and turned the output power up. I swear I tried all track ID#s and all train ID#s, but I was obviously doing something wrong. I think it was an ID ten T error. I think my max output was set to nothing, but since I didn't have an ID number set at the time, the AUX1, AUX2, 0 did nothing.

One thing he told me was that I shouldn't have tried to follow the manual to run my TMCC locos through the TPC. (I think that's how I turned the max output down.) He said to select the TPC ID#, power up the track, select the engine ID#, and run the engine. It's that simple. Now everything runs fine.

So thanks to all of you who have tried to help me. You gave me all of the tips I needed to get things going, but I was obviously doing them out of order. I was so certain that it was a hardware malfunction that I didn't take the time to really look at what I was doing. I'm a day older, but a WHOLE lot wiser!

Again, thanks for all of the great advice.

Rick

I still don't get why you saw no lights on the TPC... mine flashes the "Track" LED when it is getting power from the brick even when there is no power going to the track, and flashes the "Com" LED when there is any TMCC command on the serial data line.

But I'm glad you got it to work!