Here is the link to the agenda in pdf for those who want a copy early.

Marty, agenda looks great! Wish I could be in attendance, perhaps sometime in the near future. As always, I appreciate the work that Will, Chris, and you do on this. It really helps the people who have the Legacy system. I'd think Lionel would/should also be very appreciative. I have often wondered where Legacy would be if it were not for the forum and many of its members.

Everyone have a great York.

Ken

Enjoy York guys!
I am sorry I can't make it but I am looking forward to hearing about the meeting.
Thanks for all the work guys...

Just faxed out our DEMO setup and it is ready to go. Got a little extra this time around that I think some of the newer users will appreciate and maybe some experienced operators as well.

This IMO is looking to be a good meeting. Just got off the phone with Will and he's crossing into PA and last I heard from Chris he was in Denver heading East.

See yinz guys at Thursdays and Friday morning at breakfast.

Any info on the User's meeting this morning?

Roger

I spoke with Will a few hours ago and he is getting all the info together to post sometime this weekend. I'll follow up with pictures Chris took. I think for the most part everyone will be happy with what we heard. When the new software comes to pass you'll be seeing a lot less red.

Detailed report on Friday's LIONEL LEGACY USERS GROUP MEETING coming up later this evening, but first, Marty Eibeck, Chris Bojanower, and I want to thank the following people for their generous contributions to making the meeting successful:

Tip of the hat to Lionel's Mike Reagan for keeping everyone laughing and for his broad and deep and seemingly endless knowledge of the Lionel Legacy system and of Lionel products. He answered some very tough questions and gave straight answers every time. Thank you, Mike!

A big thanks to Fred Standa, Lionel Legacy beta tester and OGR Forum member (Fred's Trains), who flew in all the way from western Iowa to give us the lowdown on soon-to-be-released Legacy version 1.3 features and fixes. Fred, we all want to come visit your 50' X 40' layout!

Gene Stevens (WINROSE on the Forum) generously brought 4 brand new rail cars to be given away as door prizes. Thank you very kindly, Gene!

Last but not least, we offer grateful thanks to the anonymous donor of a Lionel locomotive which was given away as a door prize.

We didn't count heads, but the room was set up for 48, and we had more than that, so thank you, everyone, for coming and making the event so enjoyable! We hope it was worthwhile for you and that you will come again on April 22, 2010, same time, same place.

Friday's Lionel Legacy Users Group Meeting started shortly past 8:00 AM and ended by 9:30 AM, and a lot was covered in that 90 minutes.

After introductions, we handed the floor to Fred Standa, Lionel Legacy beta tester and owner/operator of a 2,000 sq. ft. layout in his basement in western Iowa (Fred lives about an hour east of the Omaha/Council Bluffs area). You know Fred as "FRED'S TRAINS" on the OGR Forum.

Lionel CTO Jon Zahornacky could not be at York for this show, and Jon authorized Fred to spill the beans on the new features and the fixes in soon-to-be-released Legacy version 1.3.

Fred's extensive report was augmented by an occasional comment from Mike Reagan.

Here are the highlights of Fred's report:

MAIN OPERATION: ENGINE QUEUE

Cab-2 has an "engine queue" in it. This means that when you have an engine or train that has not reached its target speed and you de-select it (that is, change to another engine or leave the main operating screen), the "engine queue" in 1.3 takes over controlling the engine or train in the background up to, or down to, the target speed you set.

Currently (beta version) the engine queue runs up to 6 engines in the background.

MAIN OPERATION: TRAIN BRAKE CHANGE

The Train Brake operation has been changed in order to accommodate the request for more effects controls, but the standard of operation has been maintained. The Train Brake speed range has been adjusted: Under the new operating scheme, the Train Brake's effect on speed and the laboring sound has been split. Only the lower half of the Train Brake slide impacts speed of the locomotive, while the entire range of motion produces the laboring effect.

MAIN OPERATION: SPECIFIC ENGINE TYPES

Additional types have been added to the Engine Info. To select these additional types you can utilize the "More" button in the "Type" tab. The types are:

- Subway
- Accessory (similar to the "other" category in previous software)
- StationSounds Diner, etc.
- Acela
- Crane Car & Boom Car

Example using StationSounds Diner:

1 - Volume up (speaker icon)
2 - Car announcement (microphone icon)
3 - Sound on (speaker-to-right icon)
4 - Volume down (speaker icon)
5 - Sound off (speaker-to-left icon)
6 - Next stop car announcement (next icon)
7 - Station announcement (tower icon)
8 - Car lights off (black bulb icon)
9 - Car lights on (clear bulb icon)

Acela example:

1 - Volume up (speaker icon)
2 - Car announcement (radio icon)
3 - Engine RPM up (arrow up icon)
4 - Volume doen (speaker icon)
5 - System off (clack circle icon)
6 - Engine RPM down (arrow down icon)
7 - Station announcement (tower icon)
8 - Car lights off (black bulb icon)
9 - Car lights on (clear bulb icon)
10 - L doors open (sliding doors open icon)
11 - Reset
12 - R door open (sliding doors open icon)
13 - L door closed (sliding doors closed icon)
14 - Blank
15 - R door closed (sliding doors closed icon)

Crane & Boom Car example:

1 - Boom up/down (crane boom icon)
2 - Large hook up/down (large hook icon)
3 - Small hook up/down (small hook icon)
4 - Front light toggle (F light icon)
5 - Rear light toggle (R light icon)
6 - Outriggers (outriggers icon)
7 - Crew dialog toggle (radio with bar through it icon)
8 - All sounds on (speaker with bar icon)
9 - All sound on (sepaker without bar icon)

TRAIN BUILDER: CHANGES

Trainlink Suppport has been added. To "train link" a device, press TRAINLINK button. Trainlinked devices are indicated with a "LINK" over the icon that looks like a chain.

This allows graphic representation of items in consist. For example, if you add a crane, you see a crane icon. If you "Trainlink" the crane, it will be accessible at any time by pressing the TRAINLINK button during main operation.

Another example is support for Legacy switchers: If the switcher is lashed up with other Legacy engines, the internal device that governs the switcher's normal "gearing" and therefore its speed will be temporarily reprogrammed while "Trainlinked" so that the switcher runs at the same speed as other Legacy engines in the lashup consist.

MAIN OPERATION: TRAINLINK

To utilize TRAINLINK you must first build a consist that includes items you wish to access with Trainlink. Example: a Legacy ATSF E6 4-4-2 Atlantic engine and a Santa Fe StationSounds Diner. To "Trainlink" items in a consist, you select the item and press TRAINLINK. In the example, highlight the Santa Fe E6 Atlantic on the Legacy handheld remote and press TRAINLINK. A chain link icon appears above the engine. Next highlght the ATSF StaionSounds Diner and press TRAINLINK again. A chain link icon also appears over the diner icon.

In the beta release you can link up to 5 items per train.

MAIN OPERATIONS: IMPROVED RADIO DRIVER

This is the most wanted Lionel Legacy improvement of all, repeated here in Fred's exact words:

"The communication link between the Legacy base and the Cab-2 has been put into a mode that should improve distance and reliability. Example: my layout (50 feet by 40 feet)."

Fred has tested Legacy 1.3 EXTENSIVELY on his very large layout, and he reports vastly improved radio reception between the Legacy base and the Legacy handheld.

All of Fred's tests were with his external Hawking antenna removed, thus using ONLY the Legacy pigtail antenna supplied with the Legacy base.

When it's ready, Legacy 1.3 will be released on the familiar Legacy modules (one for the Legacy base and one for the Legacy handheld remote) and presumably mailed to all registered Legacy users.

So when will Legacy 1.3 be released? Here's a closing note from Jon Zahornacky, Lionel CTO, on that subject:

"I ask your patience, and rest assured that when these improvements are fully ready, we will get them to everyone. My goal this year is, however, QUALITY IS PRIORITY ONE. My best answer is that 1.3 will be released as soon as it is ready."


MIKE REAGAN ANSWERS OTHER QUESTIONS

Following Fred Standa's outstanding and comprehensive report on Legacy 1.3, Mike Reagan bravely took the floor to address the remaining questions posted on this thread at the top:

3. Battery charging issue

While Mike didn't say this exactly, it is unlikely that Lionel will change the battery charging circuitry soon. Speaking as Will Allen and not for Lionel, my advice is to throw away the rechargeables if they die or if your charger ceases to function and to buy AA Lithium batteries. That's what I do, and they last a loooooong time in my Cab-2 Legacy remotes.

4. Planned new Vision Line features

None announced.

5. What can you tell us about the black Legacy modules?

They are black.

7. Status of addressing more than 99 engines

While Mike didn't say this exactly, it doesn't appear to have a high priority.

8. Wheel flange problem

Mike says future engines have been tested successfully with smaller flange wheels. Time will tell when the smaller flange wheels show up on new engines.

9. Random electro-coupler firing problem on some Leagcy engines

Mike reports that extensive testing shows it to be a mechanical issue, not electrical. The problem occurs on some Legacy locomotives, mainly diesels, caused by slightly drooping couplers that sometimes open spontaneously. The fix is to place a small washer (metal or fibre) under the screw that holds the electro-coupler to the snap-off truck.

10. TPC shutting down when running Pulmor motor locos

Mike could not replicate this problem in his test environment but made a suggestion to one person present who had this problem. Contact Mike directly via email if this happens to you.

11. Does Lionel plan on making service manuals and test equipment available to the public?

Frankly, I didn't hear this answer and will let Marty or Chris answer this below.

12. Will Lionel offer the Cab-2 handheld controller alone without the recharging base

No plans to do so at present that I heard. Marty and Chris, did you hear anything different?

Other questions on original list

Questions 1, 2, 6, and 13 were answered by Fred Standa (above).


WE HOPE TO SEE EVERYONE AGAIN AT THE NEXT LIONEL LEGACY USERS GROUP MEETING ON FRIDAY, APRIL 22, 2010, SAME TIME, SAME PLACE!

And now some pictures...

Our demo setup including connectivity to TMCC1, SC2, and Legacy.




Will Allen and myself. Chris was behind the viewfinder.


Fred Standa giving us the run down on V1.3.




This guy shows up every meeting and we still don't know who he is.


The green lights do come on once in a while. LOL!

Nice photos, Marty and Chris!

As far as service material, I don't think Mike addressed that. I would think an email to him could get an answer. He was trying to cover a lot in the time we had.

The Cab2 doesn't sound like it will be available separately. Mike gave me the impression that it will be available as it is now. Here again I would suggest contacting Lionel's marketing department.

On the wheel flange issue, after the Vision Demo, I noticed the GE engine had smaller flanges. I asked the gentlemen there if this was things to come and he seemed to indicate the this is being addressed and will be corrected in future releases. We shall see.

I would like to personally add my thanks to Fred Standa, Mike Reagan, and all of you that attended. I really enjoy the gathering and it is the highlight of York for me. I would also like to thank Will and Chris for their continued friendship. It's a lot of fun and I really hope everyone enjoys it.

Thanks for the fine report(s) and photo's.

quote:

Originally posted by Will Allen III:
3. Battery charging issue

While Mike didn't say this exactly, it is unlikely that Lionel will change the battery charging circuitry soon. Speaking as Will Allen and not for Lionel, my advice is to throw away the rechargeables if they die or if your charger ceases to function and to buy AA Lithium batteries. That's what I do, and they last a loooooong time in my Cab-2 Legacy remotes.

Is it necessary to abandon rechargeable batteries when they die and replace them with non-rechargeable Lithium batteries? Can't I replace them with over-the-counter rechargeable Ni-MH batteries and continue to use the Legacy charging base?

Thank you Will and Marty for all your efforts in organizing and reporting on the Legacy User's Group meeting. Your efforts are greatly appreciated.

Earl

Thanks so much guys. I wish I could have made it to York, but knowing that you guys are carrying the Lionel Legacy banner makes me feel better about not making it.

Things sound like they are moving on the Legacy front. Glad to hear the mysterious black modules are indeed black. 1.3 will be here when it is ready, but it does not sound as if it will be too, too far off . . . at least we can hope not. Again, thanks for your efforts on all of our behalf.

In the answer to question #9: "...snap-off..." ??

trainmaster,

Well, OK, "snap-off" is not exactly the technical or marketing term, but it's whatever Lionel is calling their easy-to-remove trucks. They twist and snap off (the newer Legacy trucks on diesels) without having to remove any screws.

Sorry to have confused you.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Earl,

Yes, you can buy new rechargeable AA batteries to replace the Lionel-provided ones. However, I am not sure this will help because of the charging circuitry issue in some units.

Marty, & Chris, weren't there earlier posts on this subject? Can you help Earl answer his question better than I can?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks, everyone.

Great and informative session.

Can't wait to try version 1.3. It will make acela running a lot easier. The coupler issue occur mostly when running lashups, so that problem will be solved.

Will, thanks again for a repeat lesson on the Zephyr.

Bill D

Thanks guys for the informative post about the Legacy meeting. It appears that things are progressing very well. Very interesting to have had Fred Standa, the beta tester, also present. Undoubtedly he presented some great insight. If my memory serves me, I believe Fred is also a member (?) of a club that has a layout along I-80 just West of Omaha.

I think Jon's statement of V1.3 being released as soon as it is ready is very appropriate.

Also glad to see that the "wheel flange problem" is still being addressed. However, no definite timetable as to when they will appear will make my future purchases to be still put on hold.

All in all again thanks since many of the Legacy users are unable to attend this very informative meeting.

Everyone have a great weekend.

Ken

A BIG "Thank you" to all who addressed and reported on the Legacy User Group meeting. A lot of good info and much to look forward too!

Joe

~Long Live Lionel~

Will, sorry I didn't make the meeting this trip, Talking to Manufacturers about a new Smoke Loader possibility Being one of Lionel's Beta testers, fellow tester Fred did a great Job. The signal issue is greatly improved and the Wheel flange issue will be resolved. Lionel is really working hard. Lionel building trains again in NJ is also good news, Built in the USA again.

Ernie

Ernie

Good to see a few minutes. Sorry you couldn't make it. Fred did an awesome job.

Ken can't agree with you more about Jon's statement. I want it perfect too. My only beef I have is Lionel has a beautiful Legacy website and doesn't take advantage of it. It would be great to see some periodic updates on the progress of features and fixes. Not any detail just some progress updates. But then as Jon has reminded me in the past, when you say you a shooting for a time frame and something happens to change that folks can get peeved. Still I would love to see Legacy news added to the Legacy page.

But from what Fred has told us about V1.3, there is a lot to look forward to.

Doug

Marty,Will,Chris
Thank you for all your great work and keeping us informed on the meeting and updates. I always look forward to your post.

Thanks for the info, could't make this year but hope to be there next year.

Guys,
Great report and great job! Excellent news on the Engine queue!

I thoroughly enjoyed the presentations (and breakfast). Thanks, gents, for organizing the meeting.

See you in April, for sure!

After following the reports of the group from previous meetings, my wife and I were fortunate to be able to attend this year's meeting. It is good to read the reports from earlier meetings, but it was really great to hear the presentations live. Fred and Mike's presentations were outstanding. And like everybody else, I can hardly wait till I have v1.3 in my hot little hands.

My only disappointment was in the announcement that there is little hope to see CAB2's without the charging base. Like most here, I long ago abandoned their charging feature. I just wonder if Lionel's strategy is to force us to have a row of big black boxes all shining with the glowing Lionel logo to impress our visitors. Will not help with me since my base is hidden under the layout in a position so that my Hawkings antenna will reach most areas.

And despite an overflow in the room, I cannot believe how efficient and friendly our servers from Alexander's were.

quote:

Originally posted by Lionel2341:
Will, sorry I didn't make the meeting this trip, Talking to Manufacturers about a new Smoke Loader possibility Being one of Lionel's Beta testers, fellow tester Fred did a great Job. The signal issue is greatly improved and the Wheel flange issue will be resolved. Lionel is really working hard. Lionel building trains again in NJ is also good news, Built in the USA again.

Ernie

No sweat, Ernie! Hope you make it back in April.

It's great to read that the wheel flange problem will be resolved. Thank you.

Thanks, everyone, for coming! It was, in my opinion, the best meeting ever.

I have a question for everyone who attended, and this is especially if you've come to more than one of these meetings:

Do you see any value in our putting up the little demo Legacy/TMCC layout? We don't mind doing it, but during the April and October meetings this year we did not use the layout much at all. We were wondering whether to bring it next April.

Thank you,

Looked to me like most guys were rushing over to the meet. It might get more use if the meeting is scheduled after the halls close. If Legacy v1.3 is in production by April it should improve interest.

Bill

Bill

I agree about V1.3. It may get more use then. I can leave all the TMCC1 and SC2 at home. I thought adding it would of garnered more interest.

Hi Marty,

This was my first time at the LG Mtg and so - clearly- I don't know diddly squat -- i.e., any of the previous history of what you guys have been through in selecting the day and time. And please understand that this is in no way a criticism because it was a totally excellent experience and the preparation you guys put in really showed. Enjoyable and valuable.

So, anyway, why have you guys decided to have it in the morning before the meet instead of in the evening?

In the evening we could linger a little longer and get more answers in a more informal setting. The layout and Legacy might better come into play. Some people are more comfortable in an informal setting. What's the old whipsaw about it's better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. New guys may have good ideas and killer good questions but may feel inhibited.

And the group pretty much vaporized and headed for the meet at the conclusion of the planned part. There were several guys who I wanted to follow up with and -- whammo -- they were gone! Probably hell bent to find that really good deal in the halls. But, I did get a few minutes with Will and greatly appreciated the opportunity.

So, maybe some informal time and some hands on at the end might be in order.

Bet you guys have a good answer and have been all through this before. Keep up the good work.

Thanks,
Bill

Will,

Following the comments on watching the layout following the presentations, have you thought of having the session Thursday morning rather than Friday morning. That would help fill that "dead" morning and not have us rushing off to the opening of the halls.

That would be especially true next April assuming V1.3 is out and it could be shown off then.

Peter,

I think we suggested Thursday the first time we planned th event, but not everyone attends on Thursday. Some come Thu-Fri, and some come Fri-Sat. Of course some come all three days, but Friday seemed to be the best day since it is usually the busiest with the most folks in York.

It seems to me that there was another conflict, too, at Alexander's with a regular group of York Show buses that come in from out of town to the restaurant for breakfast before the show opens. I remember that Alexander's could not provide a room on Thursday at all, which would mean finding another venue. We looked all over for a free alternate room with no success. (Alexander's kindly does not charge us because they make revenue from the sale of breakfast to everyone present.)

Now that we are established, however, perhaps we could try again. We certainly agree that Thursday morning would be less stressful for everyone, and probably better attended.

Thank you for the suggestion.

Bill,

The only night open (with no other conflicting events) is Friday night, and I vaguely recall something even that night.

Wednesday evening is the DCS Users Group meeting, and many folks want to go to both that and the Legacy meeting.

Thursday night is the OGR-sponsored "Thursdays at Friday's" do.

Good seeing you this York, and I hope to get to know you better in April.

Will,

Be very careful. If you move the meeting to Thursday morning, I might show up!

Barry,

Nothing would give us greater pleasure! I keep a seat warm for you at every meeting hoping you will come again.

I have been at all the Legacy meetings and dont feel rushed to get to the fairgrounds on Friday AM, what ever it is that needs to leap up in my arms and go home with me will be there when I get there. And if you were to go to Friday evening there are scheduled dinners and Traditiions of other groups( eg Lionel operating Train Society at the Silver Dinner Back Room each York) that would cause some conflict. My Wisdom says you found a spot or niche like others for their gatherings, Stay the course. I'll be quiet now.Thank You for all you do Will,Chris and Marty. Happy Railroading!!!-Don Klose

Will,

Just as an FYI, you might want to talk to Paula about availability on Thursday morning of both the back room upstairs, where we have the DCS meeting on Wednesday evening, as well as the downstairs room.