May 23, 2008 ALTOONA, Penn. - Railroaders Memorial Museum director Larry Salone's first timetable for completion of ex-Pennsylvania Railroad K-4s No. 1361 says the engine could be done within 18 months - or it could take twice that, the Altoona Mirror reported. Work won't resume right away on the project, which stalled last summer, but the museum will put pieces of the locomotive and largely finished tender on display in the Museum's Memorial Hall temporarily starting next month. It will be the first opportunity in a dozen years to view the locomotive in Altoona after its restoration began at Steamtown National Historic Site in Scranton, Penn.
Meanwhile, the museum will send the boiler out for reconstruction at a certified shop, which Salone expects will take nine to 14 months. The museum will also seek bids for construction of a quarter-roundhouse in the yard, a project that is expected to take three months. When those projects are complete, the museum will put together a crew to assemble the locomotive in the roundhouse.
The K-4 project began in 1996 with the expectation it would take three years. But time ticked by as myriad problems, from the complexity of the project to funding sources slowed progress. Last year, the state halted disbursement of funding until the locomotive returned to Altoona. The museum has since inventoried and removed all the locomotive's small pieces from Steamtown, though the boiler remains there until the museum can ship it directly to a repair contractor.
Smithsonian Institution transportation history curator Bill Withuhn believes the project should be seen through to completion. "They need to get it moving again," Withuhn told the Mirror. "It's the most historically important locomotive of the 20th century that needs [to be] restored." The locomotive is important, he said, because it is a surviving example of the first locomotive line in the Western Hemisphere fully designed on the basis of scientific principles. And it was designed and built in Altoona.
It is "the most publicly known fruit" of the famed Altoona test plant, which has its founding on a locomotive-testing treadmill created by PRR under legendary CEO and Pittsburgh native Alexander Cassatt, brother of impressionist painter Mary Cassatt. Withuhn said the treadmill was on exhibit at the 1904 St. Louis World's Fair, and then PRR installed it in Altoona on the current site of Station Medical Center.
Salone would like to start construction on the quarter-roundhouse in the fall. He said the museum has $2 million available for the project from a federal transportation enhancement grant. The museum has about $600,000 available for the K-4 from a 2006 state Redevelopment Assistance Capital Project grant. Salone estimates the restoration will cost up to $900,000 and that he'll need to get the additional money through fundraising
Well, I for one would be delighted to see a restored K4, whether cosmetic or operational. I became a fan of steam too late to see a K4 run. I have seen the K4 at Strasburg - that one needs a bit of work too!
Quite the saga - it would be good to see it through to completion. Will enough folks cough up additional bucks for this latest attempt?
Paul
Posts: 216 | Location: Mullica Hill, NJ | Registered:: November 01, 2006
Just in case they ever DO get it operational, I think steam fans will be amazed to discover that when accelerating a train, the K4 has the loudest and sharpest exhaust of any locomotive ever built!
Picture lining up a row of shotguns and firing them off in succession!
Kent
OLDGUYFROMNJ
Posts: 169 | Location: New Jersey, the Garden State - growing more shopping malls to the acre! We stand behind Miss Liberty! | Registered:: January 11, 2006
Hopefully the museum can get something done and not let politics, pride and big egos screw it up any more. I'll keep my fingers crossed, because I want to see a K4 under steam again.
Andy
TCA, LRRC, LCCA, Atlas Golden Spike - "Diesels represent the job, steam represents the adventure!"
Posts: 2762 | Location: Western Pennsylvania | Registered:: August 21, 2005
The funding appears backwards to me. The $2,000,000 should go to the restoration of the K4, and the $600,000 to the quarter roundhouse. In my opinion, the 1st spending priority should be to get the K4 running in accordance with the latest Govt regulations.
the K4 has the loudest and sharpest exhaust of any locomotive ever built!
I don't think so. I'll bet you've never heard a Reading T1 (Chessie Steam Special No. 2101) with the throttle on the roof. The exhaust is louder than the whistle and I've got the video to prove it.
I might also suggest that NKP 765 could "out-talk" a K4 when working hard, especially since the 765's rebuild. Every exhaust is like a cannon shot.
To Rich's point, I made a sound recording of the C&O 614 during one of its "Erie Limited" outings between Hoboken and Port Jervis. The exhaust was thunderous and actually overwhelmed the whistle at times.
Those who are interested in hearing K4 recordings would do well to puchase a copy of Semaphore Records' album titled "On Time" which has been reissued on compact disc. Find it at www.semaphorerecords.com.
Having been around and on PRR K4s locomotives on the New York & Long Branch back in the mid to late 1950s, I'll take a CB&Q S4 hudson or O5b northern any day for "loudest exhaust", over the K4s class! Heck, even NKP 765 and SP 4449 are MUCH louder than a PRR K4s.
Posts: 3115 | Location: Western Springs, IL | Registered:: August 06, 2004
Was behind 4449, as she made the grade from the East Navidad River to Shulenber TX, about 100 mi West, in 1985. Talk about LOUD. But's Big "L's" Legacy/Railsounds system to shame.
Rich, you are absolutely right!!! NO 40lbs back pressure on 4449, 844, nor 3985!
Which brings up an interesting thought: NKP #759, various Reading T1 locomotives, and C&O #614,,,,,,,,same guy ran all three. Hmmmmmm, what's wrong with this picture??
The louder the exhaust DOES NOT MEAN THE LOCOMOTIVE IS MAKING MORE POWER!
Posts: 3115 | Location: Western Springs, IL | Registered:: August 06, 2004
How about..it sounds RIGHT...I watched a Mark Balkin video this morning on RFD. There was a shot, I don't know exactly where it was, but 4449 was climbing in an "S" curve, along side a highway. Minimum smoke, nice speed, and the train evidently was just the perfect tonnage and grade for the speed she was making..you talk about a locomotive sounding as if she was in perfect tune..wow. I hope Hot Water was firing, and knows where this was.
Would I love to hear that K4 on Horseshoe with just the perfect tonnage some day! Every time I go there, the desire to watch a steam loco curl around that curve gets stronger, and of course, the K4 would be a natural. But my imagination pictures two Pennsy 4-8-2's, doubled on a long mail train, hammering away uphill!
Funny thing..sometimes when I'm over at 17 mile taking a few photos..I can imagine a NKP berk showing how ya pull ten or so cars up a 2.2 grade with unending "S" curves..sure would be nice if either the K4 thing or the 17 mile thing would happen. Oh well..one can always dream.
Ed
Posts: 5397 | Location: Western Maryland | Registered:: April 10, 2002
Boys let's just face it, they're all loud, very loud as is Metallica when they knock out a round of "Enter Sandman" - A YouTube Video in concert. I guess this discussion gives added meaning to the term Heavy Metal and I'm not even into Heavy Metal.
Posts: 247 | Location: Roanoke, VA | Registered:: October 09, 2005
Is there anything "wrong" with running at 40 pounds backpressure besides the fact that you are clearly not optimizing engine performance and efficiency? I'm assuming the only reason you would do this would be to create a big thunderous exhaust show? Any risk of mechanical damage?
--Reed
Posts: 39 | Location: NJ | Registered:: March 22, 2007
Need a little more info about the Mark I video. Was it the "Steaming To L.A." program on the 1989 50th anniversary of the Los Angeles Union Passenger Terminal?
Posts: 3115 | Location: Western Springs, IL | Registered:: August 06, 2004
Is there anything "wrong" with running at 40 pounds back pressure...Any risk of mechanical damage?
What is wrong with running the cutoff so long that you end up with 40 pounds of back pressure is that the locomotive is beating itself to death just trying to move itself. It is also wasting a tremendous amount of fuel.
In something over 30,000 miles at the throttle of the 765 I have never seen 40 pounds of back pressure on the gauge. I've seen 20-22 pounds twice, and both times it was with an inexperienced engineer and was corrected after only a few moments. When the 765 is working HARD with the throttle on the roof and sounding like a massive machine gun, the back pressure will be 12-15 pounds...approximately 5% of the steam chest pressure.
Hot Water..I think this video had a run that was later than 1998, and I think it was in Washington State, seems I remember Ellensburg and Kennewick on the route. There was a lot of stainless in the consist, it was not the pure SP train.
Ed
Posts: 5397 | Location: Western Maryland | Registered:: April 10, 2002
I've seen 20-22 pounds twice, and both times it was with an inexperienced engineer and was corrected after only a few moments. When the 765 is working HARD with the throttle on the roof and sounding like a massive machine gun, the back pressure will be 12-15 pounds.
When I widened on the SP&S 700 coming up out of the Missouri River canyon I was distracted for a short time and when I looked at the back pressure it was about 35 psi! I quickly adjusted the gear and got it down to about 6 psi. After a few seconds of that I didn't like the metalic noise so I moved the valve gear back to about 9 psi of back pressure which seemed to sound and operate much smoother.
I think I found the Mark I video you are talking about; "Steamfest '90". It was all on the Washington Central RR in the Fall of 1990, it's 2 hours long, and also has the SP&S 700 on the tape (different week). The scenery was just beautiful running up and down the Yakama River Canyon with the Washington Centrel Dinner Train. The line in question was the former Northern Pacific Rwy. that was/is part of the Stampede Pass Line over the Cascade Mts and down into Auburn, WA.
The BNSF purchased the route back from the Washington Central, completely rebuilt it, including re-opening the big tunnel at the summit of Stampede Pass. The video is pretty long, but has some great shots of three different locomotives, plus the electric trolley system in Yakama, WA.
Posts: 3115 | Location: Western Springs, IL | Registered:: August 06, 2004
That is the one! As I said, there's a place where the highway is right next to the right of way, and the shot is from a higher point so that you can see quite far. When 4449 is climbing there, on that "S" curve, she sounds as if she's in perfect tune..at least to these old ears. If you have that one, listen and see if I'm right. Some of those videos of 4449 up in Washington and Oregon have some great looking scenery.
They did not show all that video on RFD. Probably the second half this week.
Ed
Posts: 5397 | Location: Western Maryland | Registered:: April 10, 2002
