Question for Rich, or anyone with knoweledge. How do railroads such as NS, CSX, UP, BNSF, CP, CN, KCS, etc.. deceide when to retire their diesels, what to put in storage, and what to return to GE leasing (or any other leasing company).

Several months back I recall reading that UP was pulling their SD-90 MAC (4300?) from their roster and returning them to GE Leasing. I also recall reading in that same article that CP stopped using their SD-90 MACs as well. When you think of all the locomotives today everything from B23-7, AC6000, 8-40B, SD-4002, SD-50, SD-70MAC, SD-80, Dash-9, etc.. how do class one's determine which ones to pull the plug on and which ones to keep rolling. I know the SD-40-2 is pretty popular despite its age.

Comments...anyone?

Eagle

My Dad said years ago the C&O r.r., retired a locomotive after it was 30 yrs. old.

I don't know if that did,or still holds true.But alot of the 30+ year old warriors are still running on the CSX,and the NS (GP-38's and SD-40's).

I can remember when the Chessie retired their gp-7's and 9's.They had over 200 of them setting in Russell,Ky.They got sold all over the world.

Sometimes they will turn in older power as "trade-in's" for newer locomotives to the same manufacturer.

They retire or store the most expensive locos to operate first. The expense maybe due to fuel efficiency, higher maintenance, unreliability, different model so it requires different parts stockpiles across the system, a lease agreement less than ideal terms, or other expense reasons. But it always comes down to MONEY. If it costs too much and the RR can run without it, then its gone.

Wyhog

Early on, at least, "diesel" locomotive trucks would resurface under an otherwise new locomotive. The trucks from the UP turbines were reused under other UP locomotives -- maybe some of the Centennials. Alco locos would come with EMD trucks and vice versa.

Today, many of the hybred and multi-prime mover locos are built on top of frames and trucks of older locos.

Major wreck damage will retire any loco, just as it will an automobile.

Not surprisingly, there are tax and accounting issues involved as well. Somewhere there is a line between major repairs, which can be expensed when done, and rebuild, which must be capitalized and depreciated. Generally, rebuilds are eligible for inclusion in equipment trusts while major repairs are not.

Wyhog nailed it.

Railroading is a business. Businesses survive on profits. Higher costs mean lower profits.

Remember the old saying...follow the money.

In this age, the expense of operating each locomotive is tracked by computer. The big roads are very sophisticated.

One important figure they use is days between failures. BNSF puts out a daily list of the worst offenders, i.e., the least reliable locomotives. No matter how efficient or inefficient a locomotive is as far as fuel consumption, road failures are more important. A train stopped on the main track with a locomotive failure can cause the same disruption to traffic as a derailment. Recovering from traffic interruptions is usually slow, and things are not normal for at least a couple of days if a cluster of trains backs up due to a failure. Thus, when traffic drops off, engines from this "hit list" are usually the first to be stored.

Secondarily, they look at the fuel consumption of a class of engines when deciding to store large numbers. As far as disposal, they try to dispose of an entire class, so they can eliminate the parts inventory. This often comes at the expiration date of the equipment trust, normally 15 years.

Southern Pacific would "vacate" a line of locomotives from its property WAY before the 15 year trust date, if the line was a "dog".

Examples: SP loved the C628, so they bought the 630. Had massive problems with the 630's. So they went to deadlines, leased to Alco loving roads, and at the end rebuilt for superswitchers for the likes of Englewood and Eugene.

The U33C's were another. SP had over 200 of them, but when they started to have repair rates over the SD40/45 family, off to the deadlines,or GE loving railroads. They became fodder for the GE's post U-boat diesels.

Biggest thing was there was a market for the older 4 axle power when it was retired. All your shortlines bought up the older retired power to start up thier railroads. Not to many shortlines and few regionals have a use or the ablity to operate the huge locomotives we see today. The local shortline ran with 2 GP9's, 2 leased F units and 2 SW9's for local switching all the years I railfanned it when I was young. They eventualy bought 2 ex BN GP10's when the F units went back to the museum they were leased from. The retirement of the huge locomotives of today looks bleak for them, probably will be parted out to keep the others running and the remains scrapped, espicialy with todays scrap prices. Cheers Mike

If U.P. is indeed getting rid of the SD90-43's though (I thought they got rid of the true SD90's long ago?) I find that strange because I'd always heard those were the most reliable units they had? The SD90-43's were built to recieve the 6000 hp engine when it became available and thus the cooling system and electrical system were designed for 6000 hp but only getting 4300 hp so I'd expect them to be reliable. Also the SD90-43's use 710 engines so parts should not be a problem. I suppose cooling system and electrical parts might be though?

I think I remember hearing of crew complaints of rough riding SD90's and they were limited to trailing for at least a while I think?

From time to time I had a few UP SD90-43's as lead units of my consists but I don't recall them being rough riders. I never had a 6000 hp SD90.

Wyhog

Per the original poster, the UP got rid of their SD90 6000HP units, since they never owned them! The UP told EMD/GMAC to "take them back". I'm not aware the UP is even considering giving up their SD90MAC-43 units!

In the case of the Sd40 & Sd40-2's, I am seeing a bunch of short lines purchasing these units. Touted as one of the best locomotives made for it's simplicity and easy acess to parts, IT's no surprise that these locos are commanding top dollar on the secondary market.

Case in point, the New Hope & Ivyland has a cp rail sd40. Reading Blue mountian & northern went for some Sd's as well as the NYS&W!

I always thought they just parked them on a siding and let them rust?

Maybe they should give every member on the forum a loco! Start with those with the most posts and work backwards!!!

The SD9043MAC is basicly an early form of the ACE, without the Tier 2 polution controls. Why not place a 710 in the SD9060's?

Dominic,

Since the 6000HP SD90MAC units never did actually belong to the UP, they had no desire to do anything to them. They just "returned" them!

Wyhog is of course correct. After a while GP-9s have been replaced by larger 2 axel locos and even at CNE we have GP-40 power and look for more when available. The good thing about buying a used engine like a GP-9 is the cost is reasonable at under $35K. But the bad thing is by the time the railroad gets around to selling and letting the engine go it has been scavaged of important copper parts and any copper wire easily grabable by thieves and employees alike.

The last three engines we took possession of on the C.N.E. RR needed replacement components adding another $10K and more to the cost of putting the engine in service. Just the copper leads alone from the control box to the motors was several thousand. Our last GP-9 the last of the 30 originally ordered GP-9's for old New Haven, #1229 sits in our "rent a bay" spot in Hartford waiting for A.J. and I to find the time to rewire the relay control box. The engine starts and runs but does not move yet. We bought a replacement contactor box from an engine scarp yard and had it shipped to us so we could remove the missing contactor parts and replace on the 1229. Now we need to start control wiring the box this fall. Many wires were snipped and yanked for scrap value by homeless Guys or thieves in the yard it was stored. After all that wiring is complete a shakedown run for a few weeks will tell us if it is ready for full time playing. Last but most important it will get a new paint job. McGinnis of course as it was when delivered to the NH. At long last it will be back on the tracks it saw service on many years ago. We plan to give it a semi retirement status to be used for the dinner train type runs.

At my age I often think of Maynard G Krebbs and the way WORK shocked him and now I. But with a bit of Alfred E Newman's lack of "worry" mixed in to ease the strain of it all... LOL..

How do they retire locomotives? A picture is worth a thousand words. Fortunately, I've got the pictures.


Kent in SD