Any Information out there on the Cape May Seashore Lines 2008 summer operating schedual . The business phone on their web site has been disconnected, also it looks like the last changes on the web site was in Feb 2008.

The last 2 years I have been down in Cape May in July and every year the railroad looked pretty much abandoned. No one anywhere ever seems to have any info about it. maybe I will be surprised this year.

This might explain some of the reason why there is no schedule...
Daily Journal article

Here is why the Cape May Seashore Lines line is no longer operating. The FRA has determined that ties along the trackage on the line from Tuckahoe to Cape May have exceeded their useful life. About 25 million is needed to restore the 25 miles of trackage to operating standards. In addition the swing bridge over the Cape May canal needs a $1 million renovation.
The Cape May Seashore lines is a small operation and doesn't have the funds to restore the trackage but New Jersey transit owns the tracks and the right of way and they won't appropriate any money to fix anything.
As to when or if this line will ever run again, only God knows. Due to the efforts of one man the line ran for about 7 years into Cape May. Now it appears that things are at a standstill and the line may possibly be bankrupt. Time for NJ Transit to step in before its too late.

quote:

The FRA has determined that ties along the trackage on the line from Tuckahoe to Cape May have exceeded their useful life.

Are the ties really that rotten, or is this a case of some bureaucrat protecting his bottom?
KL

As I recall, and it has been a while since I've admitted that I'm from Jersey, the quality of track on this section has never exactly been great. With all the costs of operating a railroad into today's financially hostile environment, I can see how this issue is real and it would take the efforts of NJ transit to step in a take responsibility for maintenance.

Tie that in with all the other southern NJ projects being discussed such as restoration of the 'Blue Comet' route into Altlantic City and there seems to be an ever growing need for more commuter connections in the southern part of the state. Based on what I've read, it seems that Northern NJ has gotten most of the attention to date.

Jonathan, you're absoultely right. North Jersey has had the lion's share of NJ Transit's attention for as long as there has been a NJ Transit. But this needs to be taken in context. As so often is the case, the rehab of any of the many defunct rail routes in South Jersey (or anywhere in the US)would not gaurranty ridership. A perfect example is the old PRSL/ PRR route from Phila to AC that Amtrak fixed in the late eighties. The ridership was so low that after only a couple of years Amtrak abandonded the route themselves, and NJ Transit struggled for years with low ridership. The fact of the matter is that the American public as a whole needs to change their attitude towards mass transit, the realatively small protion of like minded individuals that read this forum and others don't comprise a large enough section of the population to make it worth anyone's time to invest the kind of capital needed to bring these routes up to the strict requirements of the FRA.

We also have to keep in mind that the majority of these FRA rules are for the safety of the riders. In some cases they are a bit extereme or may be taken out of context, but again not everyone has the well being of their fellow man as the highest priority. A lot of these rules were written at a time when railroads were either very profitable, and unscrouplous management was looking to make as much money as possible, or at a time when the railroad was a huge burden and management was looking to make as much money as possible.

Maybe the current oil situation will persuade Americans to rethink rail. I think we can see that it already is.

This is a fairly extreme example, but most Class I railroad lines spun off to regionals were neglected in order to spend capital and maintenance money on the main lines, and that's how they became spinoff candidates. When the deferred maintenance exceeded the value of the line, the Class I's were happy to offer them to regionals.

Bridges are the big-bucks item, usually. Ties can be managed for freight, but, to haul passengers, the railroad is going to have to adhere to a higher standard, simply because people will not stand for rocking along at 20 MPH on FRA Class One track.

Sad to say, but a number of regionals have found that the golden opportunity they envisioned was an illusion.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Bartling:
A perfect example is the old PRSL/ PRR route from Phila to AC that Amtrak fixed in the late eighties. The ridership was so low that after only a couple of years Amtrak abandonded the route themselves, and NJ Transit struggled for years with low ridership.

You might want to check your facts. The AC Line is NJT's fastest growing line. Ridership has grown 25% every year for the past seven years and has doubled since February. Most weekend trains are more crowded than rush hour New York trains and off peak and off summer season trains are usually filled with every day commuters.

North Jersey politics is he real reason that the southern half of the state is falling behind. All of the rail commuting options (ACL, RiverLINE, PATCO) are very heavily used.

Notch 8, you're absoutley correct about the current situation with regards to the available routes in South Jersey. I should have clarified when I said that "they had struggled for years" I meant in the past. That's what I was alluding to when I said about the oil prices already changing people's minds. I also agree with you that South Jersey has been something of NJT's red-headed stepchild.

But the trips that CMSL were running however, were not atrracting ridership in record numbers, for many reasons.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that if tomorrow NJ Transit replaced the tracks in say EHT or Northfield/Linwood/ Somers Point, you would see any record numbers of riders. Just my feelings, but I think the majority of people in South Jersey are still too in love with the freedom of the automobile. And our state and local government's solutions to traffic congestion is to add more traffic lights, not infrastructure like fixing the lines noted above.

The only way we'll ever now if it's the chicken or the egg will be when public demand for routes like these gets big enough that elected officials have to listen.

Its interesting to follow this thread. New Jersey is such a wonderfully diverse state for one that is only 180 miles North-South. When I lived in Central Jersey on the shore we did our fair share of name calling with everyone near NYC being the "Bennys" and people from South Jersey "Southerners". It was meant to be 'good natured' - really!

I guess in the political world it hasn't changed that much. Politics out here are much simpler. It's the "Rules of the Old West" and a legislature that steers pretty hard right and every now and then steers even further!

Jonathan, be thankful the AZ legislature leans right. Keeping government lean and mean is something NJ politicians forgot about a long, long time ago. Legislatures are supposed to be custodians of the public trust but in this formerly great state they treat it like their own piggy bank!

Dennis LaGrua's mention of the PRSL Canal Bridge brings to mind some history.
The PRSL Canal Movable Bridge at Cape May NJ was built as the result of the creation of the inland waterway by the Federal Government near the beginning of World War II. The Canal Bridge was completed in 1942 and was the last phase of the completion of the canal between the Delaware Bay in the west and the back Bay area of Wildwood Crest in the east.

The Canal Bridge began its career as a turntable in Williamsport Pa. It was removed from service there and transported by flat cars to location retorfitted as a moveable bridge. It was installed in place before completion of the canal on each west and east side of the bridge. Then contractors dredges dug to the bridge on each side thus completing the canal.

The control of the canal bridge was the only PRSL Bridge controlled and operated by a Block Operator.This was because just south of the bridge was the Harbor Branch Jct. this Jct was tied into the signal circuts of the bridge and was deemed an Interlocking at the time.

As a Helper in the T&S Dept I had worked on this bridge in 1948,only finding myself transferring to the Agents/Operators Dept in 1949 and worked many shifts in this bridge in 1949 and 1950. Thanks for reading Jules Ermel

Very interesting addition, Jules. Did they have a train order office on the bridge?

quote:

Originally posted by Flannel:
Jonathan, be thankful the AZ legislature leans right. Keeping government lean and mean is something NJ politicians forgot about a long, long time ago. Legislatures are supposed to be custodians of the public trust but in this formerly great state they treat it like their own piggy bank!

Normally I would agree. I am for lean government and our property taxes are very low by comparison. However our legislature tends to focus on the mean side more. Some would say a state where you can carry your concealed weapon legally into a store to buy groceries, gas, alcohol AND ammunition at the same time is great. The legislature here is part time, does all it's business in a 100 day session (with a few extensions usually to finalize a few things). However, in the end, much like California, most legislation gets passed by ballot initiative (both good and bad!)

When it comes to transit, most in this part of the world can barely spell the word. Our first stretch of light rail opens in the fall, but we don't even have Amtrak service in Phoenix. There is finally a few dollars being spent to do a transit study of the heavy rail corridoors that go through most of the metro locations here on UP and BNSF, but that is about it.

I have always held NJ up as a model of quality transit and will always do so. To be able to leave my house, catch a NY&LB train to Madison Square Gargen for a concert was a wonderful experience. I don't miss the humidity though ... that is for sure even if it was 113 here today. After all ... it's a dry heat!

To Number 90;
The PRSL Canal Moveable Bridge was controlled by Block Operators , but was not a Block Station to issue Train Orders. This strange arrangement was caused by the Interlocking arrangement tied to the operation of the entrance to the Harbor Branch and the agreement between Union and Management in regards to the Interlocking making the operation a Block Operator function,The control cabin was on the south side of the canal on land, with the canal in full view East & West.
The Block Station in control of the Operational authority was Wildwood Jct. Block Station about 6 miles north of the canal.

The details of the Harbor Branch could be a topic in the future . Thanks for reading; Jules Ermel

If your looking to assign some responsibility to the lack of rail transit initiatives in New Jersey, in gneeral, look at the NIMBY's (the 'not in my backyard' folks) who complain that a commuter train is unsafe, creates pollution, and headaches, etc.

These are the SAME people who complain when the highways, which were designed for half the current capacity of vehicles, are congested, that busses are dirty, spewing exhaust and can't get home because the roads are 'never plowed in time' when it snows.

I recall that there are a few folks that would rather see the PSRL just disappear from around the Cape May vicinity.

quote:

in gneeral, look at the NIMBY's

...or the BANANA'S (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anybody).

KL

I heard at one time that there were thoughts to extending the CMSL from Glassboro to Wildwood. Of course, there were are also thoughts of extending the NJT River Line to Glassboro. I for one, would love to be able to avoid the traffic on the way to the shore. Some of my neighbors agree. But as said earlier, the NIMBY's killed the River Line extension. But because of gas prices, I have heard there is new consideration of a light rail line from PATCO to points south via the Route 55 median.

Interestingly enough, I saw an article that said that AMTRAK is experiencing such renewed interest that some days, the NE Corridor is sold out!

Maybe some good news on this one. Here's a link to another AC Press article. It appears that NJT is planning on spending some money in South Jersey for fiscal year 2009. Unfortunately, these are only budget proposals at this time and could get shot down.

NJT Expansion

As far as the CMSL it doesn't appear to address the entire line, just the Richland to Winslow Jct segment. On one hand I want to think that any investment is a step in the right direction, but on the other, wouldn't the CMSL be better served by fixing the tracks all the way? I hope that there are more plans in the works that we don't know about. It seems very short sighted to only fix part of this line, especially when the areas that would be it's pirmary draw don't appear to be included.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Bartling:
Maybe some good news on this one. Here's a link to another AC Press article. It appears that NJT is planning on spending some money in South Jersey for fiscal year 2009. Unfortunately, these are only budget proposals at this time and could get shot down.

NJT Expansion

As far as the CMSL it doesn't appear to address the entire line, just the Richland to Winslow Jct segment. On one hand I want to think that any investment is a step in the right direction, but on the other, wouldn't the CMSL be better served by fixing the tracks all the way? I hope that there are more plans in the works that we don't know about. It seems very short sighted to only fix part of this line, especially when the areas that would be it's pirmary draw don't appear to be included.

Over the years South Jersey has lost 1000's of miles of RR trackage to abandonment. The former RR lines that extended from Newfield to Woodbine, the line from Winslow to Bi-Valve, the line from Vineland to Maurice River, the Glassboro to Mulica Hill branch, the seashore lines Wildwood branch, the former PRR line to Sea Isle City, Ocean City, Avalon, the Eatontown to Winslow (Blue Comet) Line to AC, and now the Seashore Line trackage remains dormant due mainly to the determination by the FRA that many of the ties are beyond useful life. New Jersey needs to step up to the plate and re-establish many of these RR lines. Now with gas over $4 /gallon mass transportation/freight transport is needed more than ever. Lets hope that in 2009 the Seashore Line tracakge will be restored. The trackage is in good condition and was used up until 2 years ago. The main job to restoring that line is putting in new ties but its a 25 mile stretch and the price is estimated at $25 million which sounds quite high. One million per mile just to replace some ties? This estimate must be off.

I road the Cape May about a year and half ago up to the turnbridge at Cape May the bridge was close to reopening and was waiting on an inspection for the limit switches.

The line is hurting but passable.

Vandelism has been the biggest problem mainly the four wheelers who build a cross country track across the railroad track for 6 miles. The RR went out and cleared the line and and they just came right back. The RR turned it over to the police and they said NJ transites problem not there juristion. Our speeder trip was cancelled as a result last Nov.

We ran the Deleware Coast RR instead and then Winslow juction. The south side of Winslow was a challange but we made it once the trees and sand where cleared off the line.

I'll see if I can post some photo's.

Here is a link Cape May

[IMG]<img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/thehayslip/SGmLeWpcY5I/AAAAAAAADhA/lKrAjh2NGno/s800/Cape%20May%20speeder%20trip%20074.jpg" />[/IMG]
[IMG]<img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/thehayslip/SGmLeWpcY5I/AAAAAAAADhA/lKrAjh2NGno/s800/Cape%20May%20speeder%20trip%20074.jpg" />[/IMG]

Jamie

quote:

Originally posted by CSX FAN:
I road the Cape May about a year and half ago up to the turnbridge at Cape May the bridge was close to reopening and was waiting on an inspection for the limit switches.

The line is hurting but passable.

Vandelism has been the biggest problem mainly the four wheelers who build a cross country track across the railroad track for 6 miles. The RR went out and cleared the line and and they just came right back. The RR turned it over to the police and they said NJ transites problem not there juristion. Our speeder trip was cancelled as a result last Nov.

We ran the Deleware Coast RR instead and then Winslow juction. The south side of Winslow was a challange but we made it once the trees and sand where cleared off the line.

I'll see if I can post some photo's.

Here is a link Cape May

[IMG]<img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/thehayslip/SGmLeWpcY5I/AAAAAAAADhA/lKrAjh2NGno/s800/Cape%20May%20speeder%20trip%20074.jpg" />[/IMG]
[IMG]<img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/thehayslip/SGmLeWpcY5I/AAAAAAAADhA/lKrAjh2NGno/s800/Cape%20May%20speeder%20trip%20074.jpg" />[/IMG]

Jamie

Jamie: Thanks for sharing the pics. Looks like you guys really enjoyed the trip.
I have a special interest in the Cape May Seashore line as my wifes family owns a home in Cape May. It is one of our regular summer/fall vacation spots. That line is just begging to be used again and we can only hope that NJ transit will step in an restore it. I see the line being a real revenue generator in summer. If the connection to the AC main line at Winslow junction is ever realized they won't be able to keep up with the demand. Two years ago we were riding the restored Budd cars from Cold Spring to Cape May and it was a very pleasant expereince.We would go into Cape May around lunch time and return to Cold Spring on the 3PM train. It was relaxing and we didn't have to worry about the tight parking in Cape May.