Sorry I do not have a photo at this time.

Our train group runs a small town model railroad museum. We were given assorted conductor items, two of which I need a name to make a sign.

Both serve the same purpose. One is long, rectangular with a fabric strap and the other is long cylindrical with a chain strap. Both have a tube for a red warning flag, long compartment for flares and a small compartment for fuses (torpedos?). Some were still in the compartment and we need to dispose of them.

Well, what I was getting at is what do you call these storage devices?

Thank you

Don

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Well, what I was getting at is what do you call these storage devices?

We called them a "flagging kit" used to flag down trains. This was one of the first things a brakeman would look for & make sure it was complete when starting work, There was usually a "kit" on each engine & caboose.. I forget how many red fusees & torpedoes plus the red flag were in the kit. You'd certainly want to know the location if you needed it in a hurry .

Thank you very much.

Don

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compartment for fuses (torpedos?).

Fusees and Flares are the same thing. Torpedos are entirely different.

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Some were still in the compartment and we need to dispose of them

Some of what? Fusees or torpedos? Torpedos are almost impossible to find now days. I have one on my desk. They can be very dangerous in the wrong hands.

If I recall correctly the minimum you had to have available by the rules were "six red fusees and eight torpedos". But I think that was the number necessary to have on each the loco and the caboose, I don't remember if that is what was in the flagging kits themselves.

Wyhog

If you need to dispose of the old flares and torpedos, call your local fire department's nonemergency number. They will help you dispose of them.

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If I recall correctly the minimum you had to have available by the rules were "six red fusees and eight torpedos". But I think that was the number necessary to have on each the loco and the caboose, I don't remember if that is what was in the flagging kits themselves.

We had cases of each along with yellow fusees in the caboose. 6 fusees wouldn't last very long in train order territory.

Wyhog,
Any idea if the Canadian RR still use torpedoes? I found one on a cab years ago and it was quite a bit louder than our regular torpedoes. There's a story that goes along with this, but maybe later

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I found one on a cab years ago and it was quite a bit louder than our regular torpedoes.

Who just about had a heart attack?

I'm out of the loop Jim. you mean there are no flagging kits on the engines? What do you do if the radio fails?

When I was a young kid in the 40's, my friend and I used to pick up spent red fusees along the tracks. We'd take them home, scrape out any leftover powder and light it. We luckily never burned ourselves, but boy was the smoke and sulfer vapor terrible.

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I'm out of the loop Jim. you mean there are no flagging kits on the engines? What do you do if the radio fails?

Radio failure should not make any difference as to whether you have to flag or not, except in VERY unusual circumstances where you'd have to flag FORWARD to proceed. Some units still have flagging kits but they have only fusees and a red flag, no torpedos.

Almost nobody flags the rear end of trains now days in dark territory or any other kind. That went out with the cabooses. In dark territory the dispatcher can not authorize a second train to follow another unless the 2nd one is required to run at Restricted Speed which means looking out for the first train (or anything else).

Yes I am aware that 6 fusees would not last long in the old T.T.& T.O. dark territory and yes we had a case or so on the engines and cabooses. But the rule stated that a flagman was only required to have a minimum of 6 fusees and 8 torpedos while going to flag as we were talking about flagging kits. And of course for light high powered trains that could always make track speed you COULD go over an entire subdivision without ever lighting a fusee. I did it hundreds (thousands?) of times on light helpers. In signal territory you still needed a flagging kit (or stuff your pockets with the minimum) just in case you had to flag for some strange reason but you would not need a case of fusees on the locos or caboose.

We used red and yellow fusees (for different purposes) when I worked on the Penn Central but after I moved to the BN in 1974 I never saw another yellow fusee.

Wyhog

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Radio failure should not make any difference as to whether you have to flag or not, except in VERY unusual circumstances where you'd have to flag FORWARD to proceed. Some units still have flagging kits but they have only fusees and a red flage, no torpedos.

Ok ,What do you do if you derail on double track(signaled territory) blocking the adjacent track with only 2 crew members. One crew member flags one way and the other the other way? Radio is Kaput! Do you flag as in outside signaled territory? (at least 2000 yards?

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What do you do if you derail on double track(signaled territory) blocking the adjacent track with only 2 crew members. One crew member flags one way and the other the other way? Radio is Kaput!

Yes. But first you announce it on the radio even if you believe the radio is not working. In that situation I'd also go to a trailing unit if I thought my radio was B/O and use its radio. Press 911 on the radio to try to get the dispatcher immediately.

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Do you flag as in outside signaled territory? (at least 2000 yards?

Yes. Though where I work it would be more like 1.5 to 2.2 miles. You have to flag both directions, first of all your derailment probably won't trip the signals on the other track unless it breaks a rail, and secondly the track may be signaled in only one direction thus is actually dark in the other direction and a train could be running against the current.

I have never figured out what I am supposed to do if I were in this situation while on lonesome-cab helpers. But don't forget the FRA requires that you have a working radio.

Wyhog

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I have never figured out what I am supposed to do if I were in this situation while on lonesome-cab helpers. But don't forget the FRA requires that you have a working radio.

Yes , don't forget the old standard rule- "If in doubt the save course of action must be taken" Whatever the hill that is? Thanks for the come back.

When I was a kid, the B&O used torpedos in an area near my home quite a bit. All the kids knew this, and would go down to the tracks and gather parts of the flat lead straps that were used to hold the torpedos to the rails, which often laid near the rail after the torpedo blew. They made great sinkers for fishing!

Of course, disaster is almost always a just step away, especially since the B&O was so busy back in those days. I wasn't there when it happened, but one of the young fellas lost part of his leg just below the knee. He was hit by a caboose leading on a drifting short train of a few box cars and a locomotive. I guess he never heard the quiet train.

And a question about torpedo use..I seem to remember that they were used in sequence sometimes..anyone know about that?

Ed

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I seem to remember that they were used in sequence sometimes..anyone know about that?

What do you mean by "sequence"? You always were required to place TWO of them on the rail not less than 150 ft apart. The xplosion of only one torpedo meant the same thing to the engine crew but 2 were required to be placed. In inclement weather (extreme cold or when they could be covered with snow) it was required by rule to place a second pair on the opposite rail to explode simultaneously.

Depending upon the era, when you heard torpedos you must reduce to 20 mph (or Reduced Speed or Restricted Speed depending upon the era and RR) and not increase speed until you have reached a point 1 mile (2 miles later) from where the torpedos exploded.

So if protection was needed beyond the 1 or 2 mile limit, a second (and 3rd) set could be placed to continue protection.

Wyhog

One July 3 -- way in the past, I think Nixon was still President -- the crew of the ATSF Victorville road switcher thought Independence Day deserved celebration, but, since they were going to be home in San Bernardino on July 4 (their job laying in on the holiday), they thought it would be a good idea to make a little noise on the 3rd before going home. After we -- I mean they -- opened a carton of torpedoes, which contained a LOT, maybe a hundred, and the torpedoes were laboriously strapped to one rail of the house track, the Engineer (unnamed) was signaled to proceed over them with the geep and the waycar. They went off like a machine gun for quite a while before all were exploded.

Meanwhile, across the main track, in a somewhat disreputable hotel, residents were hitting the deck, running out any convenient door, and probably flushing a lot of dope down the toilets.

The crew tied down the engine and waycar, turned in their timeslips, and peace once again reigned in Victorville. Did I mention that the sheriff's office sent a couple of deputies, who arrived just as the crew was leaving? Vandals, they were told -- kids apparently -- found a box of torpedoes and put them on the rail. Everybody agreed to have a good Fourth of July, the deputies returned to whatever they had been doing, and the crew went home.

We had some moron crews that thought it funny to put a torpedo on the knuckle of their caboose before the helper engine coupled on. When the helper coupled on, KABOOM! This was not very safe as the helper brakeman was usually riding on the helper loco steps or on the ground as the coupling was made and I was amazed none ever got hit by shrapnel. I got tired of it from one notorious crew so while we were stopped for a meet in the middle of the night I put one torpedo about a foot in front of every wheel on their caboose. Eight torpedos. When the head end hogger finally called me and told me to "Let 'em eat" I leaned into the caboose. KABLAM!! The earth shattering blast darn near lifted the crummy off the rail and brought those yahoos in it to attention. I never had any more torpedos on knuckles from that crew after that.

Although you cannot find a torpedo on RRs today, a fusee can make an equal noise. With a lot more smoke accompanying it. Simply light a fusee, let it burn a few seconds, place it on top of the rail with the fire facing the wheels; then run over it at 10 mph or better. The wheel shoves the fire back into the fusee body and it explodes very nicely thank you.
Any time you think it is safe to "play" with a fusee, remember this account.

Wyhog

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What do you mean by "sequence"? You always were required to place TWO of them on the rail not less than 150 ft apart.

I reckon that there is just what I means. Never heard just one bang, ever.

Ed

Here are some photos I took today.

Don

Number 90, funny story.

I person in my office told me this story. His father and his brother worked for the NYC. When his brother got married, the church was right next to the tracks.

Friends lined the track with torpedos and the engineer who was operating the train was notified in advance. So during the ceremony, the train went by and gave a resounding volley all to the laughter of the congregation.

Don

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DMASSO,

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Friends lined the track with torpedos and the engineer who was operating the train was notified in advance. So during the ceremony, the train went by and gave a resounding volley

I don't mean to throw a wet blanket on the wedding long ago but... The problem with such pranks is what would have happened had a track inspector found a broken rail a mile away, placed his red flag there, then came to near the church to place the warning torpedos, not knowing about the prank torpedos. The "advised" engineer would have heard the expected torpedos and the track inspector's torpedos but ignored them. He would have approached the red flag at the broken rail (or damaged switch or whatever) at full speed and not been able to slow or stop. Yes it would have been an unlikely coincidence, but if you look at almost every major incident you'll find it was caused by an odd series of coincidences and rule violations. That is why you should always follow the rulebook. Hit torpedos? Slow down.

Wyhog