What is the best mixture for white glue to water plus detergent for holding down ballast. Do you also use Alcohol in your mixture as a wetting agent? Since we are modeling the coal region in the 20's we are using actual fine coal and coal dirt as our ballast. We don't want it getting sucked up into gear-trains. After you glue and it dries, should you vacuum, then do it all over again? Thanks, Dave

I'm in the minority, since I use Scenic Cement rather than a "home brew". I first wet the ballast with a water/dish detergent mix, sprayed-on, followed by Scenic Cement dispensed via a plastic ketsup/mustard bottle (the cheap kind for picnic use). Really soak the ballast...this is no time to "go cheap". To keep the soap/water "wetting mix" from drying out, I do only 2' at a time. Wait at least 24 hours before vacuming. I honestly can say that very little loose ballast has come up, using this method. The biggest danger is using too little cement, which will give you a hard surface "crust" with loose ballast underneath. Vaccuming may not uncover this flaw, but on a module being transported..."OH NO!". Joe

Ok, I will divulge Great-Grandma's secret family recipe

1 part white glue (Elmers)
1 part water
a few drops of dishwashing detergent (wetting agent)
optionally a few drops of india ink as desired for weathering of ballast as you glue it. (I use more than few drops myself...)

Dave,
Like Bill, I start with about a 50-50 mix of water and white glue with a few drops of dishwashing liquid detergent. I soak the ballast first with a spray bottle of water with a few glugs (that's metric, I think!!) of rubbing alcohol added. Then apply the glue mixture heavily to the wet ballast using an old glue bottle.

I would avoid straight alcohol as I've seen suggested occasionally. It's flammability becomes an issue in overly strong mixtures.

It's not critical though as I have been known to water the glue down a little when I'm running out, have just a little bit more to do, or am too lazy to mix another batch. In fact, I've seen recommendations for mixtures as dilute as 1 part glue to 6 parts water.

It's always bonded extremely well - no need to vacuum or reapply the glue.

A good suggestion comes from Dennis Brennan who obviously knows ballast considering his fine line of products. He adds some acrylic paint to the glue mix. This helps blend together the colors of the ballast and ties. Bill's India ink does the same thing.

Otherwise, going over the track and ballast with a light acrylic wash when the glue has dried would accomplish the same effect.

Jim

I use Woodland Scenics Latex, the stuff they sell for making your own plaster molds. Mix is about 3/4 cup Latex, 1/4 cup water, and 5 drops detergent.

Keep in mind the water in your glue mix is just to help the glue flow down into the ballast; the water will all evaporate out, you're just trying to work the glue down in far enough.

Pre-wetting helps a lot, especially when using dusty ballast: for this, I use 1 cup filtered or distilled water and 10 drops detergent. The more you pre-wet, the thicker you can make your glue mix.

With wetting agents, you're just trying to accomplish the same thing as the pre-wetting, but in a one-step process. The detergent or alcohol is just a way to break down the surface tension of the glue/water mix.

Whether you pre-wet and use a slightly-thinned glue mix or go in straight with a more-thinned mix, you'll know you have enough wetting agent when the glue mix hits the ballast: the glue/water mix should "wick into" the ballast instead of resting on top in rounded pools. With really coarse ballast or with a really thin mix, gravity might gradually pull the mix down into the ballast, but my experience is that if it pools up on top, it will not penetrate far enough before it starts to set up and harden.

You shouldn't need multiple applications of glue mix. Once you've got a section laid down and dried out, try running the vacuum over it. If you get much of anything coming up, use a thicker glue mix on the next section. Once you've got the right mix and procedure down for your ballast and application, you only need one "coat" to get it down ok.

Bill and Dennis have good suggestions re: tinting the glue mix; I'm sure this would work with Scenic Cement or with Latex as well. I like to sprinkle a little fine ground foam onto the wet track between the rails (black in the main lines, summer green in the sidings), and on the outside edges of the ballast slope (weed green plus whatever matches the surrounding ground cover).

I tried to glue very fine sand with the usual water/glue mix. I discovered that caused it to clump and lose any sense of reality. I used hairspray and it is surprisingly durable.



Rand

A word of caution: Ballast the switches very carefully or you'll glue them shut! An eyedropper or similar small applicator will work fine in keeping the glue only on the ballast and not on any moving parts. Wipe the top of the rails with an alcohol dampened cloth to get any overspray off when done.

I used an empty 24 oz dishwashing liquid container - one with the pull up stopper. I pour in an 8oz bottle of white glue, and fill the rest with water and a couple of drops of the dishwashing liquid.

That makes a 2 parts water, 1 part white glue solution. Apply liberally, dries solid in 24 hours. I believe this ratio was recommended somewhere by Dennis Brennan.

Pre wetting the ballast before gluing is the important step.

I found that the easiest wetting agent for pre-wetting is Window cleaner. I buy is in generic bulk refill bottles and spray it on just before applying the glue mixture with a dropper bottle. Do a few feet at a time.

Also for applying scenery and ground cork ground cover etc. I mix dry wallpaper paste (Tru-Value Hardware) with it before applying to layout. It is a wheat paste. Then soak with a spray of window cleaner to activate paste. I use about 2oz of dry paste per cup of ground cover.

Carl

Mark has it right. Actually, I use one part white glue, one part brown latex paint and one part water. If you don't wish to use the paint then use one part glue to two parts water. Jim is also correct in that you can get away with fairly dilute mixtures of white glue to water. I think 50/50 is a bit of overkill.

Always soak with wet water before using the glue mixture.

Rand, as you discovered hair spray works well for holding a thin base scenery layer. Paint will also accomplish the same thing. In fact, I typically use paint on my ground or earth layer.

However, if you had first used wet water, your sand wouldn't have balled up when you applied the white glue water mixture. You should always use wet water first before gluing down additional layers of scenery materials.

Dennis Brennan

I don't know if this would work for you folks, but for my outdoor trackage, I took a large coffee can and in it i put 4 bags of Highball O gauge ballast in the Cinder color. then I added 1part of black dry sandless grout and 1 part of dry sandless gray grout. shook it all up and spread it over the track, then dry brush it into the form of the track bed.then took a spray bottle of soapy water and misted the whole thing every 5 minutes giving time for the water to soak threw..now this ballast bed is like cement itself and the rain just rolls off..this should last at least a few years without any touching up.when it dried the color did not change.you could check the last photo in my albumn I have posted here in the forum to give you an idea of what it looks like.
best of luck.