Let me preface this by saying I've been looking through all of the forums here and I have not yet found a thread that answers the question; if there is one, I'd be happy to be pointed to it. That being said, I'd also point out that many chat forums I've been on have a FAQ section with introductory write-ups about key topics that help to keep the re-posting of the same question over and over again to a minimum. Seems to me this topic is ripe for that.

Planning a 2-rail and ON3 layout, and I wish to use DCC. What I am struggling to understand is compatibility issues as I look at what is available out there for motive power. MTH has their own system (DCS I think). Lionel has their own system (TMCC/Legacy I think). There are "third party" systems such as Digitraxx, Lenz and NCE. According to Model Railroader's DCC Guide book by Don Fiehmann, (which makes little or no mention of the MTH or Lionel systems) they should all work together. Then there are older engines that were made "pre-dcc" that there are third party drop in decoders for.

But when I am in a store or at a show asking, the vendor usually can only talk to the system they deal with, and is usually more oriented to promoting what they know about. They can't answer compatibility questions well.

So my questions:

What can be used with what (and if they all can be MADE to work, what is the easiest path for the smart and lazy man)?

Can multiple systems be used on the same line (i.e, can you run a TMCC equipped engine on the same rails as a DCS equipped engine, along with a third party system)? Betting that the "in theory" answer is yes, but I want to know the "in practice" answer.

Yesterday I was looking at ATLAS diesels, offered in DC and TMCC. Most of the TMCC versions were 50 bucks cheaper. Presumably, one could put a decoder card into the DC versions; is this so?

Currently, I have only one engine, a K-line shay that does not have DCC.

Appreciate any experience and insight you folks have to offer.

When you pick a DCC system it is best to stay with what that particular manufacturer offers as far as hardware goes. There is some compatability between different brands but a good manufacturer will have everything you need. As far as DCS or TMCC go, these are propretary systems. They are NOT caompatable with DCC. Talk is that MTH will be coming out with DCC in their engines soon but it's not here yet. When you are purchasing engines you need to verify if an engine is DC/DCC ready or DCC equipped. You mentioned On30. Bachmann makes a good selection of DCC equipped engines already, so you should be good there. Other manufacturers make their engines DCC ready. That means you just install a decoder of your choice into the engine, program it, which is easy to do and off you go. Older engines that pre-date DCC can usually be made to run on DCC after a decoder is installed. If you have some very basic soldering skills and basic electrical knowledge, you can install a decoder. As for a system, I used to use NCE and was very happy with them. They are also 1/2 an hour from my house. If you have a LHS see what they sell as they will be your best source for parts and repair should something break. If your not near any shop, then obviously use what you like most.

ETA,

The Denver Society of Model Railroaders is in the process of converting our 2-rail and On3 layout to DCC. Several members work at Caboose hobbies where the Repair Dept sells all systems, installs decoders in locos and troubleshoots decoder issues. We chose to go with the NCE system as it is large enough to support the larger amp requirements for an O scale layout with multiple trains in any one power district. NCE also supports most (if not all) functions. Our loco decoders, however, will be from multiple manufacturers depending on which functions are needed for a particular application (stationary or loco). For instance, I have put a Tsunami decoder in my On3 K-27.

http://www.denveroscaleclub.org/

ChipR

I have an NCE PowerPro 10 amp system that I enjoy very much, It is simple to set up and use for programming, and very robust. Our club also uses the NCE system.

To repeat what othere have said: DCC is NOT compatible with DCS or TMCC systems.

NCE is the only system designed and made by an O Scaler. Enough said.
Cheers,
Ed

So can a MTH or Lionel engine that has DCS or TMCc be converted to DCC? If so is it worth the effort?

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Kelly:
NCE is the only system designed and made by an O Scaler. Enough said.
Cheers,

Which really means nothing as DCC is not scale dependent. The other scales actually are way ahead of O scale when it comes to getting the most out of DCC. Almost every Ntrak layout I've seen uses Digitrax and I've seen a lot more N layouts than O layouts. If one needs the full 10 amp booster then NCE makes sense but if he's running ON30 and some small standard gauge locos maybe not, if his neighbor hood is full of Ntraker's he might be better off with an 8 amp digitrax and all that local support?....dave

quote:

Originally posted by ETA:
So can a MTH or Lionel engine that has DCS or TMCc be converted to DCC? If so is it worth the effort?

They can be converted but probably not worth the trouble. If you want to run MTH or Lionel locos you should probably just use DCS instead of DCC and stick to those locos. You can run the TMCC locos on the DCS with an accessory so those two would be fine. Then buy a small DCC set to run the ON30 locos and you won't have to install any decoders, you can just buy factory command ready locos.
Don't sweat the control method, the names and methods are different but the toy trains will run fine with all of them. Go to an MTH dealer and see if you like the feel of the DCS controler then ask him how to make TMCC locos run on that system and he should be able to make it clear. For the ON30 you could get a little NCE power cab or a similiar handheld from MRC or a digitrax zephyr if you want a bench mounted controler instead of the handheld unit...dave

Daveb,
This is an O forum not an N forum so your statements are irrelevent. O Scale needs power and power properly done. Therefore, NCE.
Cheers,
Ed

You can always yank the PS2 electronics out of a MTH engine (leaving the DC motor in place) and install DCC, at least that's what the big boys on the foprum here say. Then you can sell the PS2 electronics on the Buy/Sell Section of the forum to recoup some of your $$$.

I know Ed Reutling uses the DCC system by NCE.

I have a MTH RailKing 3-rail 2-8-0 that I'm trying to decide if I want to convert to 2-rail. If I do I'll fix the wheels for 2-rail and remove the electronics so I can just run straight DC until I can decide if I want to go with a command system.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bob Delbridge:
You can always yank the PS2 electronics out of a MTH engine (leaving the DC motor in place) and install DCC, at least that's what the big boys on the foprum here say. Then you can sell the PS2 electronics on the Buy/Sell Section of the forum to recoup some of your $$$.[QUOTE]

You do not want to do this. I have already tried it with 2 MTH engines and both times the engine ran poorly. Atlas engines run better under DCC control, so you may want to look at them. If you do want MTH, I would wait until they come out with the DCC compatable engines.

I recommend you go with one system for both your 2 rail and On30 lines. It will minimize the learning curve and allow you to use the same hand held throttle (s) on either line. Wired properly, you can use a single base command station/booster for both railroads - just put them in different power districts isolated by individual digital circuit breakers like the DCC Specialties brand Power Shields. Later as your power needs grow you can add boosters and cabs when needed.

TMCC is a dead end offering in O scale 2 rail since AtlasO dropped it from its line. The proprietary nature of the product (Lionel held back the latest and greatest features for it's own models) and the physical size of the components that must fit into a locomotive made it less than optimum for aftermarket application to 2 rail DC locomotives.

DCS is a newer technology and one that MTH hopes to penetrate the 2 rail market with some day. Several of the members of the forum can discuss why they think it is superior to DCC - but for me its minor technical advantages don't outweigh the advantage of brand interoperability and market place competition that comes with DCC’s open standards architecture. DCC is a proven technology that is running on tens of thousands of layouts from N to G scale. The proprietary nature of DCS ties one to MTH's development, production, and pricing whims.. For example the current DCS PS2 product doesn't support 2 rail reverse loops - we have heard they have a solution in PS3 but when will it be available? The form fit and function of DCS decoders is limited to what MTH produces. This may be ok if you are willing to settle for the limited selection of 2 rail MTH locomotives, but what if your eye drifts to that new Yoder GE44 tonner, or the 30 year old US hobbies model you found on a table at an O scale show. For most O scale 2 railers after market installation of command and control decoders to DC locomotives is more relevant than a locomotive shown in the latest catalog (if he gets enough orders).

With DCC any brand of DCC decoders can be controlled on a DCC layout by any other brand of DCC base station/hand held controller. What is not compatible are the individual base stations and hand held controllers (called cabs). What’s on the rails and in the locomotive is brand independent. What is feeding DCC power and control to the rails is largely brand dependent. For that reason I recommend selecting a DCC vendor with a base station/booster/cab product line that has a range of offerings that won’t be a limiting factor for future expansion. For me that brand was NCE. Owner Jim Scorse is an O scaler, and his product line has from inception offered boosters and decoders capable of meeting O scale needs. As I visit O scale home layouts and clubs, I find more NCE gear powering the layouts than any other brand on the market. Picking an DCC decoder is like shopping for a car – there is something out there for every need – and they all run on our roads. I'll probably end up with over 10 different brands and models of decoders in my locomotives - fully interoperable with my NCE command base, and cabs. If 3 years down the line company x introduces a new decoder with improved features, I won't have to retrofit it to my existing roster or change the base station or cabs.

You may need to overlook some of my DCC enthusiasm - I’m several weeks in to retrofitting DCC into a large number of locomotives and am delighted with the results.


Whatever command control system you choose, welcome to O scale and the 2 rail Forum.

Ed Rappe

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Kelly:
NCE is the only system designed and made by an O Scaler. Enough said.
Cheers,
Ed

I thought Herr Lenz is an 0 scaler. Why else would he be crazy enough to start an 0 gauge product line ??!?

Best, SZ

SZ,
You got me there. My German is a bit rusty. It has been a long time since high school.
Cheers,
Ed

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Kelly:
NCE is the only system designed and made by an O Scaler. Enough said.
Cheers,
Ed

Actually that's not enough said. It's an excellent point as far as it goes, but I think an even more important point is that it's designed by someone who likes to operate his model railroad, and who understands that the main reason you buy a DCC system isn't to play with the DCC system, it's to operate your railroad. Consequently the NCE system can do everything, and do it without being obfuscated or intrusive.

Ken.

Ed K.

Nope, that argument doesn't really hold water other than perhaps for "scale" loyalties, not unlike box-color loyalties, that are somewhat self-blinding.

Where a first hand understanding of the foibles of the scale really matter are in the decoders, not the system, for it's the decoders that have to be survivable in the high-amp and dirtier environment of O.

My best advise to the original poster is to try out some systems and see which you like handling the best. For example, I don't like thumb wheels to switch with. I like knobs, and that has affected my choice to MRC. I find it has plenty of poop and is robust and simple. Other folks won't make the same choice as I do, only because what they like to deal with can have great effect on which system is best for them.

For decoders, however, I've settled on NCE D408's for everything, because they are robust enough for O and I really don't want to have a gazillion different decoders to never know the nuances of. Hence a standard decoder (much like a standard coupler and wheel) works best for me and keeps my hobby focused on operating a railroad, not on control systems.

The dialog points up a nice difference with DCC. Brian can use his MRC, Ed K, may use an NCE "paddle wheel", and I prefer the NCE Cab-o4ER. It has knob speed control and can switch between 2 selected locomotives (or consists). It isn't an issue of brand loyality - but functionality/human factors. We can each go our own way but our decoder equipped locomotives all can run on each others layouts - regardless of the brand and model of DCC controlers, or decoders we use. Having NCE owned by an O scale operator gave me the confidence to know the product line would work in our environment. Other vendors like MRC came along later and have added to the range of alternatives. The rub for most is it is difficult to find a place to try out the various DCC systems before making a purchase decision.

Ed Rappe

Ed Rappe wrote:

quote:

I recommend you go with one system for both your 2 rail and On30 lines. It will minimize the learning curve and allow you to use the same hand held throttle (s) on either line.

I wholeheartedly agree. Whatever system you choose, buy one system and it will run both sections of your layout. You can get a smaller booster and dedicate it to the narrow gauge line.


Chris wrote:

quote:

I have an NCE PowerPro 10 amp system that I enjoy very much, It is simple to set up and use for programming, and very robust.

I, like Chris and my club, have the NCE system and I am very happy with it. This is not a knock on Digitrax because I know a lot of HO and N scale guys use that and like it. I have visited many O scale layouts in my time and what I can tell you is that the NCE is the most popular choice of O scalers who do run Digital Command Control (DCC). Maybe NCE is the best for O scale and maybe it isn't, I don't know but it is the most popular. You can take whatever you want out of that.

I agree with Brian that it would be best if you could try out any systems you have an interest in before making a decision. I wasn't able to do that because I don't know anyone who uses Digitrax, Lenz or Bachmann. However, after I tried out the NCE system and compared the remote to pictures of the remotes of the other systems I had a feeling I would like the NCE system the best. And I was right. My only criticisms of the NCE system are, #1) a small one, but I wish the wires came out the back and #2) I wish there was easy way of mounting the boxes. Other than that my system has worked flawlessly and I have no complaints with it.

Phil said "..it would be best if you could try out any systems you have an interest in before making a decision." One place you may do that is Caboose Hobbies in Denver CO, where they have a test track with each DCC system hooked up to it. Denver is a great place to visit winter or summer.

ChipR

Amen ChipR

Caboose Hobbies is one great hobby shop. If you're ever in the Denver area - ya gotta go there. My daughter moved to the Denver area and now I have additional opportunity to make the pilgramage each year. Unfortunately the 30' wall that was filled with hundreds of O scale parts on pegboard hooks is a thing of the past.

Ed Rappe

quote:

Originally posted by ETA:
So can a MTH or Lionel engine that has DCS or TMCc be converted to DCC? If so is it worth the effort?

If you want an ES44, AC4400 or an SD70ACe with DCC it's about your only choice. That is, discounting the Overland Brass SD70ACes.

I have decided on Zimo MX64Hs for motor control, one per motor, for the twin motor drives and MX69 for the single drive locos. For sound (and accessories) I have decided on the Tsunami. Right now I have an MRC command station as it was a cost effective first choice to help decide between DCS, TMCC and DCC.

Now all I have to do is figure out how to adapt (or bypass) the lighting circuits from the DCS and TMCC units to the DCC decoders.

Richard

Is it safe? I use DCS. Try it too if you can. Duck! Rock solid decoder boards with sound built in. Two way communication between engine and system. Reprogramable sounds if needed. System updates are free over the internet. Separate boards available. Back to your universal dcc channel now, Joe

Can someone give an unbiased opinion on how the DCC compatible sounds compare to the MTH sounds? Thinking back to all the posts comparing Lionel to MTH sounds it seems like most agree the Lionel sounds are better. Are DDC sounds on par with Lionel? As far as MTH sounds go my latest engine (NW2 with PS2) sounds better than a F3 PS2 sound unit I have (the F3 came out of a Harley Davidson set) so maybe current MTH/LIONEL/DCC sounds are all about the same these days.

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Kelly:
Daveb,
This is an O forum not an N forum so your statements are irrelevent. O Scale needs power and power properly done. Therefore, NCE.
Cheers,
Ed

Well it sounds like the guy wants to buy MTH locos and just run some trains so why not just run DCS? I doubt he wants to get into trying to make the "perfect" DCC system. I know O scalers who run their Atlas switchers on zephyr's which are about 3 amps so expensive high power boosters are not needed with the right loco choices.....dave

I’ll be the contrary voice to the NCE chorus (I’m a contrary kind of guy). Don’t get me wrong, NCE is a great system with lots of user friendliness. But I chose Lenz.

Why? Because Lenz invented DCC and generously chose to open it as a standard for everyone to use. So I went with the company who should know the standard best and can get the most out of it; in addition to patronize the company for its generosity.

Mention was made above about the command station and the command bus not being compatible between brands of DCC systems. Quite true. As far as I know, no one else supports NCE’s or MRC’s command bus. I believe there are a few vendors supporting Digitrax’s bus; but none of them with throttles. Lenz has support for their XpressNet command bus from several vendors (most of them European). XpressNet is also robust electrically and my less than perfect homebrew wiring on the command bus, extending now over 40 feet, has not caused any problems with the signal.

Lenz also has features in their decoders and command stations, like asymmetrical DCC and constant stopping distance, that I intend to use on my layout. Lenz Gold decoders can be fitted with a backup capacitor to help locos over dirty track and frogs.

Lenz is not the most user-friendly system; but I have been happy with it. Their decoders with Back EMF get good performance out of otherwise inferior drive systems.

ETA, if all of this is ‘Greek’ to you now, file it away and keep it in mind as you learn more about DCC.

One point about decoders – choose those well. If you have more than a modest layout you will soon have more invested in decoders than you will in the command station and throttles.

quote:

Originally posted by Hudson J1e:
Ed Rappe wrote:

quote:

I recommend you go with one system for both your 2 rail and On30 lines. It will minimize the learning curve and allow you to use the same hand held throttle (s) on either line.

I wholeheartedly agree. Whatever system you choose, buy one system and it will run both sections of your layout. You can get a smaller booster and dedicate it to the narrow gauge line.

Hi Phil, You guys might be over emphasizing the difficulty of learn DCS and DCC, they both take only about an hour of fiddling around to learn how to do 99% of the necessary operations. I think if he wants MTH locos he'd save money and effort by using DCS on the standard gauge and a small DCC on the narrow gauge. I can't see the necessity of converting MTH locos to DCC or ON30 locos to DCS? Narrow and standard gauge were distinct operations in the real world so keep them separate in the play world seems more logical?....dave

I personally use Easy DCC as my friends Barry Bogs uses it on his large indoor G scale layout and Craig Brantley uses it on his large O/On3 layout. Scale has nothing to do with it. The system is simple and they have the best DCC manual online. Go to their website and download it. It doesn't get much easier.

I know others in many other scales here that use other systems. I know one person (who moved away) who used NCE, and many who use the Digitrax systems. Each has their own advantages and disadvantages. The Easy DCC system for example is quite easy to learn hence it's name. However if you have aspirations of getting into your DCC system being able to link up with a PC and doing complete signaling or it you do lots of operations on a large system with multiple operators then I'd say go with the Digitrax. That's just my opinion though. We do operations just fine with the EasyDCC system but typically have no more than about 4 people operating and none of us have signaling controlled through it. It's not to say we couldn't run more people though. The layouts won't accomodate it.

ETA
DCC users on this thread have come out for power stations and cabs from:

- NCE
- MRC
- Lenz
- Easy DCC
- DigiTrax

If you pick any one of them they will work very nicely for you. They are all proven systems with large installed user bases. The manufacturers are in continuous competition with one another to offer quality service and add on features and accessories. Their customer base spans all scales and is global in scope.

The range of options and competition is even stronger in the decoder end of DCC command and control - with more manufacturers and a very wide range of product from each.

I still recommend using a single system for both the standard and narrow gauge lines - each in its own power district. If cost is a factor and simultaneous ops isn't required, go with one hand held cab initially. If multi user opertating sessions are desired, just add cabs as required - all free to run locomotives on either line by selecting the locomotive number. We may have overstated the learning curve, but when you're first starting out its nice to only have to deal with one manual.

Ed Rappe



N

I'm in agreement with Ed R., and would add a train of thought to consider. What is your comfort level with things electronic? Are these things important onto themselves, or do you consider them a means to a greater end?

Mildly tongue in cheek (and speaking only to DCC systems I've actually used), if you're the type of fellow who is computer savvy, to whom the downing of the Net brings on a day when your family wisely avoids you, who is one with the Blackberry, and whose automobile choice hinges on the GPS and Bluetooth as standard equipment, then you might be most enamoured with, say, Digitrax.

If, on the other hand, you view the computer as a tool (not a lifestyle) and an occasionally annoying one at that, you can set the time on the DVD player but don't necessarily choose to, you appreciate a manual simple enough to be mostly ignored and electronics that are intuitive, then NCE or MRC fills that "transparency" qualification.

I speak from experience, here, for I'm strongly in the second category. I erred in my first choice of a DCC system (choosing Digitrax), and was highly turned off to DCC for years as a result. Then I tried several other systems (Loco-linc, TMCC, DCS) before revisiting DCC by virtue of having to review MRC. The result was a period of great indecision, expense, and dis-satisfaction because Digitrax was not a good fit for me and I judged the whole DCC protocol by that experience, then found the various proprietary systems far too limiting for me, and finally found a DCC system that was much more in tune with my relationship with things electronic.

Hence, I pose the question to you for your own consideration; it's an important one and worth serious reflection to steer you to a system which meets your needs.

i'm going to stay out of this one completely...lol

As my layout is strictly a switching one using mostly Atlas and a couple of great small brass pieces by Rich Yoder (Mr. Scace put a decoder in one of them), I use the NCE beginner kit because it cost me about $150.00. I run one loco at a time pulling 1 or 2 cars at a time. It works great for me.

Dick

I use Lenz. It takes a certain getting use to and I have called their tech support on a few occasions because "I just didn't get it", but I generally do get it now and find it reliable and friendly. I use the big knob control over any pushbuttons...I'm old school in that regard. But I admit a curiousity about MRC's system from what some others have said. Not going to buy it, but would enjoy trying it.

Bob

This message has been edited. Last edited by: flanger,

I use Lenz power/control equipment upgraded to 9 Amps, and am very happy with it. And, like Bob, I prefer the knob throttle. As for decoders, I really like Zimo and now use them exclusively. I should add though, that all my locomotives are single motor drives; I have not tried a Zimo in a China drive. Good luck!

I would reinforce the advice here that DCC is scale independent. All DCC makers offer decoders and power systems that will fill all of your needs. I chose Digitrax- they are by far the largest maker of DCC, mostly in HO and N scale sizes. But they offer decoders and power systems plenty big enough for O-scale. There large market share also gives them an advantage over other smaller manufacturers:
They will be around a long time
They are usually the first to introduce new innovative products, like transponding
Unlike most manufacturers, they offer an "open system". In computer terms, that means other people can offer products that are compatible with their system, increasing the variety of fun items available to use with Digitrax. (just like Microsoft)

However, whatever DCC system you pic, you will enjoy it.

quote:

Originally posted by Nyctom:
Digitrax-
...
Unlike most manufacturers, they offer an "open system". In computer terms, that means other people can offer products that are compatible with their system, increasing the variety of fun items available to use with Digitrax. (just like Microsoft)

I believe most systems are just as open as digitrax. I know for a fact that all the documentation you need to build a new device for the NCE cab bus is freely available on the NCE web site (you need to dig down in the doc section). I've used that documentation to hook up a computer directly to the cab bus through an industry standard RS422 adapter and parse instructions going over it to see what they were.

Ken.

Thanks to all! Nearly every response to my original post has had some excellent sage advice. While we'd very much like to visit Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and I'm sure we will someday, it was not in the cards in the near term. We did, however, take a run up to Mainline Hobby Supply in Blue Ridge Summit, Pennsylvania today. We got to hold a variety of Digitrax, Lenz, MRC and NCE controllers in our hands, and see how they felt. A couple of things we noticed:

- most use "squishy" buttons with no tactile or audible feedback that you successfully depressed the button and made a contact.

- Clearly see why knobs or thumbwheels can be a deciding factor.

- The placement of the knob is key as well; MRC puts the knob at the bottom of the handheld device, essentially making it a two handed controller vice one.

- Lenz uses an actual throw-post switch on one of their controllers which seemed a lot more intuitive than button mashing.

- No one here spoke of displays; maybe that indicates that they are not so important, but the fellow helping us out in the store seemed to think that it was a key difference - one or two lines of characters, size of the characters etc.

We are currently leaning towards NCE or Lenz, but still have a little more research to do. This discussion has been very helpful in framing the problem and laying out the key parameters of the choices we have to make. Thanks again to all who contributed!

I hosted an open house layout tour for the neighborhood yesterday and with a crew of 4 really gave the new layout and DCC system a good workout. At peak we were running 6 trains (with 4 cabs). We had a pair of NCE Procab-R's and a pair of NCE Cab04ER's in use, with a spare borrowed Cab04R available if needed. Each style of cab has its advantages, and the selection comes largely down to personal preference and your style of operation. The take of our crew was:

For switching most preferred the small size and knob control of the Cab04-ER's, You can do it with one hand but as I watched most used two. For mainline running of multiple trains most of the crew preferred the ProCab. The "recall" function on the ProCab combined with the display enabled crews to easily select from up to 6 locomotives (or consists) pre-stored in the system. This made it real easy for novice crews to pull whole trains out of the hidden staging yards. While I was playing host to over 200 folks, our one seasoned operator held a throttle in each hand and toggled between locomotives to run 4 trains at once on the same route. The 2 inexperienced operators each ran a single train, one with a Cab04ER and the other with a ProCab. The radios didn’t miss a beat – all without repeaters in a very large area. One test showed that we could control the trains from the floor above some 70’ away from the radio base. This is a huge improvement from the first generation NCE radio cabs (circa 2001). NCE has been great in providing its customers relatively low cost upgrades for earlier systems, enabling us to stay current with new product improvements. For only $25 they'll upgrade a first generation radio cab to the latest spec – shipping included.

Ed Rappe

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Keystoned Ed,

quote:

TMCC is a dead end offering in O scale 2 rail since AtlasO dropped it from its line

Ed,
This had me curious so I went looking at the Atlas site. This is what they list for the newest paint schemes for the GP9 due next year:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TMCC Features:

Lionel® TrainMaster ®Command Equipped featuring RailSounds™ digital sound system (including horn, bell diesel-roar sounds, etc.); crew Talk (in command and more...

Railsounds™ operates in both conventional and command modes
EOB™ Speed Control Technology
Operating electro-couplers on both ends of the locomotive

QSI® Features:
Authentic diesel engine sounds
Squealing brakes
Doppler effect
Air let-off in neutral
Coupler impact sounds when operated with DCC
Helper mode that mutes the whistle and bell for double heading
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is dropping Atlas TMCC not gone into effect yet or am I missing your intent (which is more probable )?

If you ever offer a "wider than neighborhood" open house let me know, I'd like to see how the "A Team" runs things I'm down here in Portsmouth.

Bob

Perhaps the ad may be a little confusing. Atlas dropped TMCC from their 2 rail product line several years ago, but still features it on the 3 rail side. QSI DCC decoders and sound are now featured in the AtlasO "gold line" 2 rail models. The QSI decoders operate with full functionality on a DCC layout, or less functionality on a traditional 2 rail DC layot.

When the layout is a little further along scenery wise I'll make it available for an NMRA regional layout tour.

Ed Rappe

Thanks Ed, I guess my mind was on 3-rail the whole time

Let us know how progress on the layout is going!