Hi Gang,

A friend and I have been discussing the potential of their modeling the old Seaboard RR during the Transition Era..lets say early fifties just to give it a date. However when we search for potential motive power and related equipment it is apparent that the manufacturers have not been too kind to those of us who fancy that roadname. So I guess I'm sort of asking for a ideas or suggestion as to a reasonable approach to said modeling..any thoughts are appreciated really..and yes O scale two rail is the chosen application please.

Thanks as Always

Bob...

Looks like you can start building your own cars and post how-to's to the SCL Modeler.

SAL, ACL, SCL have not been looked upon very much in O scale

No one dares to paint a thing in this paint scheme (SBD is different than SCL):



Just gotta do it myself I guess. Repainted and Weathered by me using a Warren Calloway photo of this exact unit.

And the sad thing, SCL was a huge railroad and more recent than the SAL or ACL. Barely anything gets done in all 3.

quote:

Originally posted by flanger:
Hi Gang,

A friend and I have been discussing the potential of their modeling the old Seaboard RR I'm sort of asking for a ideas or suggestion as to a reasonable approach to said modeling

Well about 75% of the fleet can be generic freight cars so you'll eventually hafta decal about 25 cars? and a couple of locos. I'd say just build the layout and worry about the specific equipment later, the manufacturers might add a few products over that time span and when the layout is near completion you'll have developed your skills to the point where the decal work will seem easy. You might even decide to model another railroad by that time so don't lose sleep over it now...dave

Bob,

If you are looking for RTR stuff (as in painted) I think you will be disappointed (at least from what I see at swap meets and online), but if you don't mind going the painting route and bashing about a bit, there is stuff out there. I'm know you can come up with EMD F3's and F7's in the correct phases through P&D Hobbies if they haven't sold out their remaining stock. There is also some brass floating around F wise. Key Imports is a possibility for E's and F's. It all depends on your budget.

As I'm not a close follower of SAL, I'm not that familiar with their steam equipment, but I would guess there is some older brass out there that could be modified and painted. Bottom line it will take some digging and a bit of patience, but I'm sure if you really want to, you can find stuff that will work. I've always liked Seaboard myself, and had I lived in their area of service, I might have gone that way! I think having some good reference books on the prototype would go a long way to get you started!

Good Luck,
SW

Bob: Dave Friedlander is quite right about the paucity of SAL Ready-to-Run freight cars, but that doesn't mean your project is in the 'too hard' category. There have been a few SAL transition era RTR offerings, including Atlas's 1923 ARA X-29 40’ steel boxcar, 1937 AAR 40' double door boxcar, and General American 53'6" wood express reefer. Lionel's most recent 40' PS-1 "Silver Comet" boxcar is equally nice and would fit the bill with a change of trucks & couplers. If you bought each road number of the cars I just listed, you would have nearly a dozen 2-rail SAL transition era cars; not a bad start for your roster. If you like to build kits, Greg Komar has some very nice SAL freight car decals for sale:

www.greatdecals.com/GregKomar.htm

Good luck!

Back again for a bit more Seaboard conversation. Let me thank those of you who offered information. Anything is appreciated as I'm sure you all know. Rolling stock is as suggested, readily available. I think a couple first generation diesels are also available in ready to paint and decal condition. Dave Friedlander's photo prompts me to ask about colors. I see what appears to be black paint..is that right Dave...did you use a black for the basic color? Was the earlier Seaboard also based on Black for their earliest diesels? What did you do for decals Dave. Did you paint the stripes? If we chose to pursue SAL would that terrific heart decal work from a freight car decal set perhaps? I know...lots of questions. Anyone know where to get a look at some color pictures of first deneration diesels for either SAL or ACL...I know I'll be back with more questions, but is there a better source of Seaboard info I could access? Thanks you all so much.

Bob

Bob,
Go to the ACL/SAL Historical Society:

ACL SAL

You can also join the forum there and get some specific answers to your questions.

Also like Dave said, they have the SCL Modeler downloadable pdf files that have a lot of information on them.

Bob D.

Oh, The SAL switchers were black with red striping and silver lettering. There's a number of books out with color photos of engines and rolling stock. I'll make a list of them and post tomorrow.

Best source of info is from the SCL modeler off of the aclsal.org site and any books you can find.

I own a copy of the SAL freight car/pass color guide. Well worth it if you like SAL.

The engine I showed was painted black and all decals, including the striping were from Microscale. They have pictures of their decals shown online here:
http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=SAL

Look only at decals with the 48- prefix as those are O scale.

My engine is actually the merger of the SAL and the ACL which is the SCL(which is before SBD (family lines))

Go to Wikipedia.com and look up the Seaboard Airline and Seaboard Coast Line. That should provide some history to you.

SAL colors for some diesels were as Bob said, black and red. Others ranged in various shades of green, yellow/orange, and red. There were also some E units in a cream green and red IIRC.

Using freight car decals on engines would probably not be best as they vary in size from freight to diesels. Good news for you is if you check out the microscale selection, they make plenty of options for diesels.

Other good sources for colors and prototype pictures:

***YOUR BEST ONE FOR COLORS***
www.hosam.com (click southeast RR's on left, and go from there)

***I use these 3 for prototype picture references***
www.rr-fallenflags.org
www.railpictures.net
www.rrpicturearchives.net/

FLANGER-- Now you know why it's called MODEL RAILROADING. This is your chance to do some real modelling instead of just buying models and pulling them out of a box and placing them on the rails. Your challenge is to research how the real SAL painted their trains, how they equipped their locomotives, etc. You will find it really engrossing once you get immersed in the more arcane aspects of the study. Good luck and please keep us informed of how you progress and be sure to post pictures. Odd-d

If enough O scalers join the ACL/SAL forum we may be able to get them to lobby for more decals, rolling stock, etc. A number of the guys that head up the society as well as contribute have contacts in the market and that's what's needed. I know they've had HO decals made and all it would take is enough interest shown to get them made in O scale.

These are some of the books I have on the SAL:

All Lines North of Raleigh - Bill Griffin

Seaboard Air Line, The Route of Courteous Service - Griffin

Through The Heart of the South - Robert Johnson

Seaboard Air Line Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment - Paul Faulk

Seaboard Motive Power - Warren Calloway and Paul Withers

Seaboard Steam Boats, Locomotives, and History - Richard Prince

I have a few others on SAl passenger trains and I think there's been even more books published in the last few years.

I model the SAL myself. No particular time frame but I do have a RailKing MTH 2-8-0 I modified to look like a SAL unit, a MTH RailKing RS-3 that came painted in SAL colors, and an Atlas GP-9 that came painted in SAL colors.

All of the manufacturers have made rolling stock for SAL, but you have to be careful if you want to be accurate as the tend to slap paint on just about anything and label it Seaboard. Walthers carries a fair line of SAL decals of their own and different manufacturers. The one thing that's sorely needed is an accurate SAL woodside caboose.

Bob,

Remember, too, that a lot of your freight car fleet should be "foreign" road cars like the PRR, NYC, B&O, ATSF and Milw Road...there's a lot to work with...I model the 1946-1957 era in New Jersey, and there's tons of cars to work with...also, look into neighboring roads like the Southern, ACL and L&N...their cars should show up a fair amount, too...

The 2 main Seaboard boxcars from this period, the 1932 Steel ARA and the 1924 Single sheathed ARA aren't available outside of brass, but I suspect Atlas will be doing the '32 ARA soon and I'm trying to get interest in a '24 ARA car going...

Seaboard had Russian 2-10-0s, right? MTH just released a sharp model in 3 and 2 rail...Lionel did an Alco S-4 switcher in SAL that's scale sized and can be 2-railed...just some thoughts -- happy hunting!

Brian

Good replies and it is appreciated very much gentlemen. For me this is an assist to a very close friend who is not a forum person per se. It's interesting to discover the issues facing a modeler of another railroad when one is immersed in the chase of their own chosen prototype. I am finding the Seaboard very appealing and I can easily see why my friend is so excited about modeling it. Thanks to Bob Delbridge and Dave Friedlander for all the specific references.

A Yoder S-12 is on reservation and assorted eastern road rolling stock is part of the quest as well. The absence of a suitable wooden caboose is most notable. I bet there is a reasonable model that can be modified perhaps. Any ideas on that would be appreciated...did I see N&W caboose had similarity or not so? Well anyway we pursue and we make discoveries and its all great fun. Thanks again for the helping hands

Bob....

Flanger
From a long term scale modeling commitment, having a prototype(any prototype) selected for the deed is actually a good thing regardless. The truth is even the really popular roads like AT&SF and PRR don't get any much more love from the manufacturers than your SAL, and it's not really that much better in the more popular scales either. I have an HO buddy that rants and raves how nobody really gets RTR PRR right either, and it's one of the most popular.

Regarding the freight cars, buy the SAL color guide and compare the prototype mug shots to the available shells, kits, RTR offerings etc. strip with a soak in brake fluid if needed, a little paint, commercial or scan-photo-shop decals, some detail parts, maybe a little razor saw action and you'll never look back.

Passenger cars are harder, but with good reference material athough it's do-able too. Like the freight car roster though, think E-Bay and sale tables for the car bodies you need for "raw" material.

Motive power for early post war SAL diesels; not so bad either with Weaver FA's & VO's, Weaver & Atlas RS's in various flavors, various GP's, P&D F3's, those lime green or earlier "brown & citrus" E's units a little less do-able but not out of reach(gotta have those Nathan air horns though)

also, though maybe a little late if your strictly 50's but those cool SDP-35's factory painted SAL by Atlas are still floating around too.

Steam and fine scale brass though is a pretty tall order though but I think the Russian Decapods had a recent run by Weaver. I don't know enough about the recently available USRA prototypes but...any of those USH or MTH Centipedes still around?

You become a student of this road and you'll never run out of great projects, though have to admit I've spent way too much time thinking about modeling the SAL.

Also want to second the earlier point on ACL/SAL historical society; they always have one of the top-draw bulletin/mags, meets and "stuff" listings for members.
Good choice indeed!

geez, forgot to mention those Weaver Osgood-Bradley coaches, a must have if you're doing secondary SAL passenger runs of the 50's.

quote:

Originally posted by flanger:
Hi Gang,

A friend and I have been discussing the potential of their modeling the old Seaboard RR during the Transition Era..lets say early fifties just to give it a date. However when we search for potential motive power and related equipment it is apparent that the manufacturers have not been too kind to those of us who fancy that roadname. So I guess I'm sort of asking for a ideas or suggestion as to a reasonable approach to said modeling..any thoughts are appreciated really..and yes O scale two rail is the chosen application please.

Thanks as Always

Bob...

And you do know about the Seaboard Modeler:

http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/

QUOTE]

And you do know about the Seaboard Modeler:

http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/[/QUOTE]

I do now...thanks Rob..very interesting site.., great photos!

Bob

Bob,
The ACL/SAL Historical Society has a quarterly magazine also. The S-CL Modeler is suppose to focus on modeling while the quarterly magazine will focus on the prototypes. It covers not only the ACL and SAL but other smaller southern RRs too. I've been a member forever it seems like and have all the issues. they started out as mimeographed/xeroxed pages and for the last few years have been on slick paper, very nioe!

quote:

Originally posted by flanger:
QUOTE]

And you do know about the Seaboard Modeler:

http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/

I do now...thanks Rob..very interesting site.., great photos!

Bob[/QUOTE]

Actually there are 3 good GREAT online mags:

http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler.htm Keystone Modeler

http://borhs.org/ModelerMag/index.html B&O Modeler

http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/ Seaboard Coast Line Modeler

...I intend to flip the other 2 societies a few bucks every once in a while to keep these good things going!