I just watched a csx sd70ace video from pitago (I think I spelled that right). I loved the detail and that is what I'm after. When you look at a layout like that I think you should not be able to tell what scale it is. I run HO and G scale. I was having trouble seeing the HO parts during assembly, and all the rest. I ran a G scale MTH DCS layout around the basement and now am going to move it outside. The available diesels in G scale is very limited. Bored yet?
Okay, so I never liked O scale because of the large 3 rail tube track, and the toy like dimensions. Now, the detailing is excellent. The availability of equipment is amazing. So I've asked people about fixing pilots on MTH like the new O scale sd90mac dummy I just bought. No answers.
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You can order engines with fixed pilots and scale wheels (no protocouplers?). What do you do about the dummies? I can add scale wheels but if I run G scale on 2 rail DCS, I wondered why I could not run it on 2 rail with protocouplers, fixed pilots, and the things that kept me out of O scale.
I can't decide whether to go with the newer 3 rail track. I just bought a piece of Atlas 40" to sample, or go two rail for the look. If I started buying 2 rail, can two rail cars run on 3 rail track? I apologize for the miandering, Joe P. "more questions than answers"

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testing the picture post,

Hey Joe,

I am also new into O scale 2 Rail..about 1 year since I made the plunge. IMO, 2 rail is the way to go. You can convert over just about anything that was a 3 rail scale car. The modern power avaiable today, I have seen guys do some amazing stuff. So I know its possible.
I like 2 rail O for the size and mass. Its easier for me to work on detail parts and paint. I use SanJuan couplers that are pretty much exact copies of a proto Type "E" coupler. And I utilize working cut levers. A fellow out there has trainlines that attach when his cars couple. O scale has a lot to offer.

As far as running 2 rail cars on 3 rail track...I dont really know for sure. I think the electrical side of Oscale is gonna hamper this..but I know there are way more qualified guys on the board and beyond that can answer this question.

Hope this helps just a little bit. there are a few really good guys on this board and very helpful and between all of them..they will help you find what ever you need.

All in all, I am very pleased with the switch I made. When my wife and I finally move, a 2 rail layout will soon follow.

The biggest problem with 2Rail on 3Rail track is the different engineering of the 3Rail frog for the turnouts. I have seen one layout where special grooves were cut in a Gargraves 3Rail switch for the 2Rail trucks.

quote:

Originally posted by Enginear-Joe:

I can't decide whether to go with the newer 3 rail track. or go two rail for the look.

If you don't have a lot of 3 rail stuff it's a lot easier to just go with 2 rail and forget all the 3 rail problems. The only real reason to use 3 rail is if you don't have enough room for 2 rail size curves. In that case I'd suggest S scale instead to keep the realistic 2 rail track in a slightly smaller size....dave

Joe,
You may want to look at ON30. Nice looking equipment available, take a little more room than HO, but it is easy on the old budget.
Al

I got alot of rooooooooooooooommmmmmmmm
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I think I do. Just added new addition with cellar for trains. Joe

That looks more like a stadium than a room.
Al

I thought I had a rough track plan so when I built I left the outside walls all around free of obstacles. Now I moved stuff in the middle and I might have to rearrange. Rough dimensions of walls: T shaped basement:
Original was aprox. 34'x 44' I think and I added a room 24'x30' centered on long wall. I built shelving all around thats 24" to 34" wide in spots. The G scale ate it up quick! Joe

Too much time and not much cash!

quote:

Originally posted by Enginear-Joe:

Original was aprox. 34'x 44' I think and I added a room 24'x30' centered on long wall. I built shelving all around thats 24" to 34" wide in spots. The G scale ate it up quick! Joe

Ok, You've got plenty of room for 2 rail O scale, so why consider 3 rail? .....dave

Great train room! Are those bigger trains G scale? It's hard to tell from here. They look great though!

quote:

I can't decide whether to go with the newer 3 rail track. I just bought a piece of Atlas 40" to sample, or go two rail for the look. If I started buying 2 rail,

IMHO, no manufacturer has ever come out with a perfect 3 rail track. I think MTH came the closest with it's ScaleTrax. Although it looks great after ballast I wish it had the ties placed more realistically.

quote:

Ok, You've got plenty of room for 2 rail O scale, so why consider 3 rail? .....dave

I agree 100%. If you're a scale guy and not a toy train enthusiast and you have the room why even consider 3 rail? True 3 rail does have more choices than 2 rail but since I have been in 2 rail I have seen it's popularity slowly but steadily growing. It's only a matter of time before the choices even out across 2 rail and 3 rail.

Joe:

Since you're already accustomed to 2-rail in a couple of scales, you might just as well go with 2-rail O scale since you're apparently leaning in that direction already. There's still more product readily available in 3-rail, but if you have a specific theme or direction in mind for your modeling, and if at least some of what you want is available in 2-rail, you might just as well go in that direction.

It's your call, but you appear to have plenty of space available for constructing a very fine 2-rail pike.

I switched to two rail a few years ago. Most of my 3 rail equipment has been converted to two rail. I had been buying quite a bit of two rail stuff to go with my 3 rail stuff. I had already installed Kadee couplers on everything. For the most part only two rail wheel sets and some car lowering, were all that was needed, to make the conversion. It was well worth it to me, to make the change to two rail.

Lisa,
Great to hear from you again. Hope all has been well with you and your family.
Al

Thanks for the input. I have been considering this for a time. I can't decide. Some have said the things that keep me from deciding. That is G scale on the bottom. I may dump the HO or move the G outside?

3 rail= more equip, proto couplers, stock trucks, +-rev loops not a big issue but I prefer DCS.

2 Rail= ++++the look,--no protocouplers?,+++fixed pilots (-not on dummies?), + cheaper track, -change trucks,DCS on 2 rail? I won't give up Command, +I already have Digitrax Superchief 8a and MTH DCS, - I'd rather go DCS then DCC personally... (Don't start a war, Joe, like Digitrax and NCE,),+ Love KD's, - Buy KD's and trucks and...

(alot of reasons, I hate installing sound decoders that end up mediocre, and each HO model has different controls and I'm not function remapping, and speed tables, and the rest. It's too big of a hastle, I just want to run!). I installed sound decoder in G scale and it's parked, incompatable, picky about track, etc.

I want large radius so I never even considered it. The main reason I'll go to O scale is the control system is superior for a person like me, and the available models. Just some thoughts for now. Joe P.

Hi Joe

The electric couplers are available, in O scale, from Atlas and Train America Studios. They work with Kadees. Reverse loops are easy in two rail. You can get the automatic polarity reverser from Train America Studios (TAS). It works with TMCC and DCC. I think it will work fine with DCS also. I don't know if it will work with DC.

Sound in O scale usually sounds better, than HO scale, because you can use larger speakers and the cavity that the speaker is in, is larger.

I don't know what you mean about, "not on dummies". I have never seen a 2 rail dummy with a swinging pilot. I have a MTH F3 ABA set, that has been converted to 2 rail. I have installed fixed pilots on them. I have several first generation diesels. I decided to power all of them. I still have one dummy to add motors and TMCC to. I have a large enough power supply, to run any combination of engines that I want.

Hi Lisa, I agree that O gauge will sound better than my HO installs, but my G gauge dcc ESU install is picky on track power fluctuations. The DCS engines have the battery and that helps a lot.
Do the electro couplers come on MTH 2 rail (scale whl ##-####-2) models?
You mentioned you never heard of 2 rail dummies without fixed pilots, but then you said you attached the fixed the pilots. Did you buy the fixed pilots separately? The MTH dummy models like the O scale sd90 mac above have floating pilots and I didn't notice if they were removable to be fixed.
It sounds like you went with TAS or lionel TMCC or DCC? and I want to go with MTH DCS. Does legacy work on 2 rail? All this is why I was considering three rail. Thanks, Joe (I keep getting more questions)

Joe,
There is a guy who visits this site every now and then named John Sethian who is running 2 rail DCS and TMCC on the rails at the same time. I think he is moving in the direction of straight DCS because he likes DCS better. Hopefully he may weigh in here.

John and I have switched from 3 rail to 2 rail, and speaking for myself, I have no regrets and have found a greater level of satisfaction. My thought is this about 2 rail. It takes alot of effort to build a decent layout in 3 rail or 2 rail. The extra effort to go to 2 rail is minimal in the grand scheme of things, but going the extra mile will pay off greatly for many years in my opinion.

One thing about 3 rail track is that all of the mass produced 3 rail track has gross flaws even beyond the center rail. If 3 rail track is an issue to you now, if you chose 2 rail you won't have to worry about second guessing using the 3 rail track. 3 rail track isn't convincing looking now, and it won't be convincing looking in 20 years, either.

Thanks Christopher, I think 3 rail look had improved so much with the black small center rail and the profiles out now that's why I started liking it more. I don't say anything bad about 3rail I just prefer the look of 2 and probably will "20 years from now". I don't want to go the wrong direction and have to change so I appreciate the help from everyone that I'm getting. I talked with a dealer and he said he and others have had trouble getting scale trax from MTH anyway. I did not see anyone around here stocking/selling 2 rail either. All of sudden Lionel fast track is everywhere. Joe P.

quote:

John and I have switched from 3 rail to 2 rail, and speaking for myself, I have no regrets and have found a greater level of satisfaction. My thought is this about 2 rail. It takes alot of effort to build a decent layout in 3 rail or 2 rail. The extra effort to go to 2 rail is minimal in the grand scheme of things, but going the extra mile will pay off greatly for many years in my opinion.

Joe,

These guys are right on with their philosophy. Build not only what makes you happy today, but what will continue to bring satisfaction to you 20 years from now. If you like scale and realistic model railroads, 2 rail is in your future.
I switched over to 2R about 7 years ago and it was the best thing I have done and I have no regrets. With all of the product and choices available today, it is very easy to accomplish.

jeb

Hi Joe,

I don't think that MTH has scale size electric couplers. You would have to get them from Atlas or TAS, and install them your self.

My MTH SP F3 ABA set came from MTH set up for a three rail operation. I converted it to two rail, using Weaver power trucks. I bought brass freight pilots from P&D Hobbies. The shell had to be modified slightly, to install them. I also built a P&D F3B unit, to go with the MTH ABA set so I could have an ABBA set. The PS2 electronics, were removed so that I could install TMCC, in each unit. Now they can each run by them selves or together. Most of the diesels that come with swinging pilots, can have the pilots modified to mount to the chassis. I have a K-line SP Train Master, sitting on top of my monitor, that is waiting to be converted from three rail to two rail. The pilots will be mounted to the chassis, with a spacer in between the pilot and the chassis.

I have been installing TMCC in all of my locos. Some of the components came from Digital Dynamics, some from TAS and some came from engines that were being converted to DCC or being used for parts. I think that Legacy, will work on two rail. Lionel engines are for the most part 3 rail, so they would need to be converted to 2 rail operation. I don't think that Lionel plans to let others have access to the engine electronics.

I would go with three rail just because there is more three rail products available.

Hi Lisa, That sounds like you have alot of time and money invested in that abba set. I admire that, but I'm the guy who buys it and wants to run it immediately like a kid with a new toy. Thank you for the info. You wouldn't want to post a picture of that abba rig would you, Joe

I'm pretty confident albeit without hard evidence that few 3 railers who make the switch to 2-rail go back to 3-rail, despite all the issues intrinsic with 2-rail (a load for sure)
In fact, what I have seen more often is 2-railers going to G scale, S-Scale even HO, I guess once that fine-scale bug "sets it's hook" they're gone-rs
(O scale's 5 ft gauge track notwithstanding, or maybe the very reason they move down or up in scale) but they just never seem to go back. Furthermore most of them are former Hi-Railers or HO'rs.

I would sincerely welcome any feedback detailing why's and wherefore's to the contrary, as would I'm sure those mulling the decision over. I'm not
anti-3-rail by any stretch, actually am very glad for them for the boon in car body moldings, large production runs in both modes, etc.
viva la difference!