quote:

Originally posted by Ed Kelly:
Hi,
I repeat the question asked by someone else: What is the difference between KTM and KTM USA? or do you mean KTM USH?
Thanks,
Ed

I will look up one of the ads in Mainline Modeler and scan it, in regard to the KTM Japanese 1983-84? release of the FEF. The US Hobbies model was also made in Japan much earlier in the 1960's? with the typical detail and features found on much of the US Hobbies, Max gray generation models. The KTM 1980's model was incredible, I do have a friend that owns a very professionally painted sample that is nothing short of astounding; working leaf springs on the drivers, simply insane much like todays Kohs & Company models. The HO Fujiyama from 1992 is a close level of quality. If I recall this was a $3000-$4000 dollar model back in 1982-82. Then again like Fujiyama anything Japanese after the 1980's was out there for prices.

I will do some research and get you and ad or some photos.

The difference between the two models is in the realm of light years !

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Water:
Wow, Eric! Talk about fantastic photography! Any photos of the subject matter (UP FEF-3 by Sunset/3rd Rail)?

Hey thanks for the kind words!

As mentioned before, I have not taken the time to set a photo shoot. I will see what I can do next week. I would like to weather the model and shoot it in a period setting, depot, and freight action with a refer train?

Somebody wanted photos? FYI, sorry I'm no pro, these were taken with stock layout lighting.

Currently she is way too clean (unweathered) for my tastes, well actually quite dirty from finger prints and dust... but not the right kind of dirty. I'll get the brush on it an make it look at what it should be. A little soot on top near the smokestack, blacken the tires, shine up the side rods and a first for me some gloss coat.

The only modification I've done so far was to paint the lead truck wheels to look more accurate for "Today." I stretched her legs and wow straight out of the box she performed flawlessly. Can barely pull 9 passengers cars up the NYSME triple whammy but no problems on straights and slight inclines. I'm liking how sturdy the construction is compared to others manufacturers' brass.

Please be aware that these images are quick compact digital camera photos of AD's from Mainline Modeler.

Mainline Modeler October 1987

KTM

Katsumi Mokeiten Company, USA 1944 Gardena Avenue, Glendora, CA.

Union Pacific FEF 2 and later 3 were imported.

Hope this helps you out. Later I will transcribe the ad into a post.

quote:

Originally posted by Erik C Lindgren:

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Kelly:
Hi,
I repeat the question asked by someone else: What is the difference between KTM and KTM USA? or do you mean KTM USH?
Thanks,
Ed

I will look up one of the ads in Mainline Modeler and scan it, in regard to the KTM Japanese 1983-84? release of the FEF. The US Hobbies model was also made in Japan much earlier in the 1960's? with the typical detail and features found on much of the US Hobbies, Max gray generation models. The KTM 1980's model was incredible, I do have a friend that owns a very professionally painted sample that is nothing short of astounding; working leaf springs on the drivers, simply insane much like todays Kohs & Company models. The HO Fujiyama from 1992 is a close level of quality. If I recall this was a $3000-$4000 dollar model back in 1982-82. Then again like Fujiyama anything Japanese after the 1980's was out there for prices.

I will do some research and get you and ad or some photos.

The difference between the two models is in the realm of light years !

They look great!

quote:

Originally posted by pitogo:
Somebody wanted photos? FYI, sorry I'm no pro, these were taken with stock layout lighting.

Currently she is way too clean (unweathered) for my tastes, well actually quite dirty from finger prints and dust... but not the right kind of dirty. I'll get the brush on it an make it look at what it should be. A little soot on top near the smokestack, blacken the tires, shine up the side rods and a first for me some gloss coat.

The only modification I've done so far was to paint the lead truck wheels to look more accurate for "Today." I stretched her legs and wow straight out of the box she performed flawlessly. Can barely pull 9 passengers cars up the NYSME triple whammy but no problems on straights and slight inclines. I'm liking how sturdy the construction is compared to others manufacturers' brass.

Wow!! Ball bearing journals, sprung and equalized. And looking at the trailing truck, must have been full of details.

quote:

Originally posted by ChipR:
Yves,

These were quick snapshots taken as we broke the loco in. No lights, no time composing the photos, no post-production editing. Just taken to help people see what the model looks like.

Regards,
Chip Rovetta

Chip,

I never meant to denigrate your pictures, far from that. As a matter of fact I love the Denver layout and will take any pictures I can get from it. I cherish an old issue of O scale 1/48th News on which the Denver layout was presented (around 1993/94).

By all means, post more pictures of your stupendous layout.

Thanks
Yves

Michael,

Thank you for the superb pictures of the SUNSET FEF-3. This engine is indeed superb and the details and craftsmanship seems to excel by far the regular KTM/USH version I have at home. It may not be as good mechanically or in term of
traction power, but the amount of details is astounding. I love the view from the top of the smoke stacks, showing the walkway and the brackets holding the elephant ears.

I decided to opt out of my reservation because of financial concern, and I am now regretting it. At least someone else is happy, as I understand this model is sold out in 2 rails.

Yves

quote:

I cherish an old issue of O scale 1/48th News on which the Denver layout was presented (around 1993/94).

Me too! I went crazy over the Wasatch UP passenger cars.

Michael and Chip, time to celebrate a great model. Thanks for posting the pictures.

Erik, thanks for the pictures.

Great photos all. Thanks for posting.

Here are some pictures of a KTM UP O scale model

Perhaps it is not the version that some are raving about.

Mike,
tell us some more about pulling up the NYSME 3% grade. Were the drivers slipping or was the motor not up to the task? Also, what type of cars were you pulling? I would imagine with slipping drivers added weight is the solution.

Thanks to all for the pix and links to pix - very nice.

Michael Pitogo,

Great photos, and thanks for posting. I also see that you elected to get the 844 "as she is today" version and contrary to brasman's post (someplace or other), the model does indeed have the two turbo generators on the Fireman's side and correct fittings on top of the tender oil bunker.

Hot Water you are absolutely correct about the two dynamos and I jumped the gun on that one. Sorry. I did not ever say anything about the tender top. I can say that the front number/shield should not be brass but aluminum. Ed

As did this KTM model.

Actually the front number plate on her today is plated to look VERY shiny, and should not be brass colored as on the model. I'll have to figure out how to correct that on my #841 "freight service" model.

Chris,

The drivers were slipping. The train was 6 Weaver 21" assortment aluminum and 6 GGD plastic 21" coaches, no heavyweights. The tractive effort is good but upgradable. 7-8 cars would be my preferred so I probably would not need to add weight, I just wanted to see what it could do.

Regarding the number plate I was also noticing that problem.
real 844

quote:

Originally posted by PRR Man:
Mike,
tell us some more about pulling up the NYSME 3% grade. Were the drivers slipping or was the motor not up to the task? Also, what type of cars were you pulling? I would imagine with slipping drivers added weight is the solution.

Hot Water the shield looks a little short to me anyway. I would suggest you get a brass one from PSC and replace it. You can paint it silver and let it cure completely and then a light overcoat of black and immidiately very carefully with off the black outline exposing the silver them decal the numbers on. I have done this using a pencil erasure to carefully expose the silver. Ed

For me, pulling power is far more important than some small details. I'm afraid of Frog Snot so I'll add weight.

Has anyone tried this yet?

Added weight is the way to go as long as you don't over do it. The Sunset drive is very solid and the Pittman motor is a horse. The biggest issue for me with added weight is that a fully weighted locomotive requires a little more careful handling that one with factory weight. I learned the brass locomotive 2 hand clean and jerk in O scale Modeling 101 some 40 years ago - cylinders with one hand and fingers under the cab roof with the other. I never try to pick up the locomotive and tender while coupled.

Ed Rappe

I am looking at a KTM FEF, and from the photos above (any way we could live without repeating them too many times?) I would say the Sunset is a far more advanced model. I have photos of the KTM USA posted in a different location. That level of detail is difficult to produce in a reasonably priced model, but the crispness and general level of detail of the Sunset model tells me that we are really making progress toward that goal. Excellent photos, and apparently an excellent model.

quote:

if you don't get involved in the early stages you will be dissappointed in the results

Amen Scott! Which is why I'll keep calling you and Justrains on the PS/2 deal in the upcoming ATSF engines :-). I think what you and Justrains are doing is shaping up wonderfully and I'm glad to be part of it.

re: Hotwater - turning the marker lights off via the PS/2 remote. Spoke with Justrains yesterday and discussed their idea on how to make it happen without the added cost of a mux board.

I owned one of the KTM-USA FEF-3's back in the mid 90's. Bought it from the orignal owner Peter Bassett of the The Model Shop in Surrey, England. He ordered it new and I have the invoice from 10/28/1986 but it is in Yen. $465,000.00 to be exact, I just don't know the exchange rate then or now so don't know what this equates to in $$$.

It and the USH converted 2-10-2 that Peter built were some of the finest models I've ever owned. There was a one page write up on the 2-10-2 in 48ft/OSN in 1997 or 1998 and some photos because I entered in the March Meet model contest listing Peter as the builder. Believe Lou Bartig (sp) took 1st place with one of his magnificent scratch built models that year but the 2-10-2 ran a close 2nd. It had complete and correct smokebox interior details, all front work lights with surgical stainless steel tubing used for handrails to hide the wiring inside, and corrections of all details to make it an exact duplicate of a UP TTT class locomotive rather than a reasonable facsimile.

Anyway, back to the KTM-USA FEF-3. When it was built (1986) KTM was getting back in the model building business but doing it for themselves instead of one of the importers or selling through dealers. I believe this was due to cost of Japanese built models (expensive) versus the new fledging Korean market at the time. KTM sent out newsletters 8 times a year (only lasted a year or so) covering the different products they were offering including products called Zap-Gard which removed tarnish from brass and a KTM Spiker for spiking "O" scale rail. The spiker was $450.00 in 1986. So, KTM-USA products were not cheap. They also listed the KTM Symington-Gould Roller Bearing and KTM Bettendorf trucks in the issues I have along with a lot of detail parts that I believe were sold through PSC. One issue had a breakdown of how the FEF-2/3 would be built and some of the info is listed below.

1) Non geared driver axles have 2 ball bearings
2) Geared driver axles have 4 ball bearings
3) Each axle has an axle housing just like the prototype to protect the axle
4) Trailing truck and lead truck have 2 ball bearings on each axle
5) "Power Glide" coasting gearbox will have 6 ball bearings
6) Each journal of the tender will have ball bearings

A total of 38 ball bearings throughout this locomotive

7) The finest Canon coreless motor available #LN32 will be installed.
8) The "Power Glide" transmission system allows the model to roll freely when gently pushed even with all drivers hooked up.
9) Fully Equalized Mechanism built into a rigid open frame that has true fidelity to the prototype in both operation and detail. The mechanism works from the leading truck to the trailing truck just like the prototype with the rear of the cab resting on centering devices which are mounted in the rear of the trailing truck, operating just like the prototype. This means the full weight-of the smoke box, boiler and cab-is actuating and resting on the complete mechanishm not just the drivers.
10) Dirver centers are all lost plastic castings (not stampings) made from steel dies not rubber molds giving sharp, crisp details. Tires, pins and axles are steel.
11) Trailing truck is a hollow lost wax casting true to prototype. It has all the brake hangers and equalization hangers cast into it ready to receive the brake rigging, piping, brake cylinders, centering devices and equalization parts that mount on it. Of course its sprung and equaliazed.
12) The leading truck is an exact duplicate in miniature of the prototype with even patent numbers, shield and manufacturers name cast in the side. Of course the brake hangers (which the UP never used but were still applied anyway) are an integral part of this casting. The truck is sprung and equalized and has the prototype chain connections to the frame.

This was just the info for the mechanism and there is much more for the brake rigging, super structure, tender, and electronics package, but my fingers are tired. I also have an 8x10 glossy photo of the mechanism as posted above in this thread. It was truly a remarkable model except it didn't run at anywhere near prototype speeds. It appeared to me to not run but 60 smph, but it was smooth and without any noise except the wheels on the rail. One touch that I thought was really neat was the working lights under the boiler walkways that I've never seen again until I saw photos of the new Sunset FEF-3.

Anyway, I sold it a couple of years later to that Japanese fellow who owns that exclusive hobby shop in Tokyo for $7500.00. I can't remember his name but some of you will know of whom I speak. He was very active in the brass model business back in the 90's.

Since then I've seen them offered a couple of times in the $8000-10,000.00 price range but I'm not that active in the brass buying and selling anymore. Roger Lewis had some photos of a KTM-USA FEF-3 posted on his Wasatch Models website several months back, dont' know if they are still there or not. There were (12) oil and (13) coal fired FEF-2's built and (12) oil fired and (13) coal fired FEF-3's built per the newsletter.

In addition to the 50 locomotives built there was supposed to be (25) coal tenders and (25) oil tenders so a modeler could switch back and forth from coal to oil if desired. I've never seen or heard of any of these tenders being sold so I don't know if they were produced or not.

I've also been told there were 25 BigBoys produced by KTM-USA before they left the business in the late 80's but I've never seen any for sale so I can't confirm or deny the rumor.

Sorry for the ramble, but this is sort of a piece of brass history and everyone seems interested in this loco so I wanted to share the info. If I knew how to post scans and/or photos to this forum I could scan some of the 8"x11" pages and post them here including a message page from Hajime Sakai the President of KTM-USA describing their re-entry into the brass building market back in the 80's.

Time for bed.

PS: Scott it looks like you've built a very nice locomotive and for the money it is a remarkable model. I can't believe the detail you've incorporated into this model for the price. But, Sunset has always been the best bang for the buck in brass models; minor mistakes or not. Your models are a very good value.

Butch

Thank you for the detailed report on the KTM 1986-87 FEF2-3. Roger did have photos on hi site, I looked last night but did not see them. I can ask him for them, maybe I should. I have seen this model in person and all I can say is WOW!

One of my shelf queens at home, a Kohs NYC with long distance tender is amazing but I would say the KTM is a little crisper than the Korean built masterpiece from 2001.

THANKS!

PS: I will get down to the layout and get some studio shots of the FEF at the store on Sunday.

quote:

Originally posted by up148:
I owned one of the KTM-USA FEF-3's back in the mid 90's. Bought it from the orignal owner Peter Bassett of the The Model Shop in Surrey, England. He ordered it new and I have the invoice from 10/28/1986 but it is in Yen. $465,000.00 to be exact, I just don't know the exchange rate then or now so don't know what this equates to in $$$.

It and the USH converted 2-10-2 that Peter built were some of the finest models I've ever owned. There was a one page write up on the 2-10-2 in 48ft/OSN in 1997 or 1998 and some photos because I entered in the March Meet model contest listing Peter as the builder. Believe Lou Bartig (sp) took 1st place with one of his magnificent scratch built models that year but the 2-10-2 ran a close 2nd. It had complete and correct smokebox interior details, all front work lights with surgical stainless steel tubing used for handrails to hide the wiring inside, and corrections of all details to make it an exact duplicate of a UP TTT class locomotive rather than a reasonable facsimile.

Anyway, back to the KTM-USA FEF-3. When it was built (1986) KTM was getting back in the model building business but doing it for themselves instead of one of the importers or selling through dealers. I believe this was due to cost of Japanese built models (expensive) versus the new fledging Korean market at the time. KTM sent out newsletters 8 times a year (only lasted a year or so) covering the different products they were offering including products called Zap-Gard which removed tarnish from brass and a KTM Spiker for spiking "O" scale rail. The spiker was $450.00 in 1986. So, KTM-USA products were not cheap. They also listed the KTM Symington-Gould Roller Bearing and KTM Bettendorf trucks in the issues I have along with a lot of detail parts that I believe were sold through PSC. One issue had a breakdown of how the FEF-2/3 would be built and some of the info is listed below.

1) Non geared driver axles have 2 ball bearings
2) Geared driver axles have 4 ball bearings
3) Each axle has an axle housing just like the prototype to protect the axle
4) Trailing truck and lead truck have 2 ball bearings on each axle
5) "Power Glide" coasting gearbox will have 6 ball bearings
6) Each journal of the tender will have ball bearings

A total of 38 ball bearings throughout this locomotive

7) The finest Canon coreless motor available #LN32 will be installed.
8) The "Power Glide" transmission system allows the model to roll freely when gently pushed even with all drivers hooked up.
9) Fully Equalized Mechanism built into a rigid open frame that has true fidelity to the prototype in both operation and detail. The mechanism works from the leading truck to the trailing truck just like the prototype with the rear of the cab resting on centering devices which are mounted in the rear of the trailing truck, operating just like the prototype. This means the full weight-of the smoke box, boiler and cab-is actuating and resting on the complete mechanishm not just the drivers.
10) Dirver centers are all lost plastic castings (not stampings) made from steel dies not rubber molds giving sharp, crisp details. Tires, pins and axles are steel.
11) Trailing truck is a hollow lost wax casting true to prototype. It has all the brake hangers and equalization hangers cast into it ready to receive the brake rigging, piping, brake cylinders, centering devices and equalization parts that mount on it. Of course its sprung and equaliazed.
12) The leading truck is an exact duplicate in miniature of the prototype with even patent numbers, shield and manufacturers name cast in the side. Of course the brake hangers (which the UP never used but were still applied anyway) are an integral part of this casting. The truck is sprung and equalized and has the prototype chain connections to the frame.

This was just the info for the mechanism and there is much more for the brake rigging, super structure, tender, and electronics package, but my fingers are tired. I also have an 8x10 glossy photo of the mechanism as posted above in this thread. It was truly a remarkable model except it didn't run at anywhere near prototype speeds. It appeared to me to not run but 60 smph, but it was smooth and without any noise except the wheels on the rail. One touch that I thought was really neat was the working lights under the boiler walkways that I've never seen again until I saw photos of the new Sunset FEF-3.

Anyway, I sold it a couple of years later to that Japanese fellow who owns that exclusive hobby shop in Tokyo for $7500.00. I can't remember his name but some of you will know of whom I speak. He was very active in the brass model business back in the 90's.

Since then I've seen them offered a couple of times in the $8000-10,000.00 price range but I'm not that active in the brass buying and selling anymore. Roger Lewis had some photos of a KTM-USA FEF-3 posted on his Wasatch Models website several months back, dont' know if they are still there or not. There were (12) oil and (13) coal fired FEF-2's built and (12) oil fired and (13) coal fired FEF-3's built per the newsletter.

In addition to the 50 locomotives built there was supposed to be (25) coal tenders and (25) oil tenders so a modeler could switch back and forth from coal to oil if desired. I've never seen or heard of any of these tenders so I don't know if there were produced or not.

I've also been told there were 25 BigBoys produced by KTM-USA but I've seen any for sale so can't confirm or deny the rumor.

Sorry for the ramble, but this is sort of a piece of brass history and everyone seems interested in this loco so I wanted to share the info. If I knew how to post scans and/or photos to this forum I could scan some of the 8"x11" pages and post them here including a message page from Hajime Sakai the President of KTM-USA describing their re-entry into the brass building market back in the 80's.

Time for bed.

Butch

Keystone Ed,

Thanks for the thoughts about adding weight. I would like my FEF3 to pull at least 15 GGD cars around our club layout, which has some 3% grades.

I suspect a total engine weight of about 9lbs would be required.

Your thoughts?

Make sure the drivers will slip before the motor stalls.

Could this be the Holy Grail?





Yves

Yves,

It sure looks to be the beast. Mine was unpainted so the details stood out more but from looks of the trailing truck sideframe details and the fact the trailing truck is hollow that sure looks to be the one.

Butch

Ted

I don't think 9 pounds will be a problem for that motor and drive train (My Pittman powered Westside J1 2-10-4 weights in at 10 pounds), but before putting the locomotive in service make sure the drivers slip when running the locomotive against a fixed block. In re-weighting many Pittman powered brass steam locomotives I've never stalled a drive. For my non-articulated PRR roster the limiting factor was space in the boiler and the density of lead (depleted uranium might yield other results!) That said, I wouldn't put more weight in than you need to achieve the drawbar pull you're looking for. A little experimentation here is a good thing. Remember to position the weight so that the overall weight of the locomotive is approximately centered on the driving wheelbase. Also check that the lead and trailing trucks have sufficient vertical travel and are only lightly sprung. A stiff pilot or trailing truck spring will "unload" the drivers.

Customizing the weight of a model to my layout's operating profile is for me an interesting part of model railroading - and I sure wouldn't want the Importer to ship the models with max weight in the boiler. Let us know how your reweigh project turns out. Pulling fifteen cars passenger cars up a 3% grade with a single 4-8-4 is quite a challenge - even for the prototype. The good news is that the GGD Pullmans are light compared to PSC brass ones, or even old Walthers cars with pot metal interior details (those cast metal Walthers toilets, sinks, and chairs sure added weight).

Ed Rappe

quote:

Originally posted by Yves:
Could this be the Holy Grail?

Yves

Indeed!

Nice stuff.

I like the paintwork and the weathering, very cool! Is it yours??

Browsing through a Mainline modeler I found an AD from 1992 BLCO that had both models FEF 2-3 listed at $2500 each or in that range. CHEAP! It's like those old classifieds in Sports Cars Illustrated in 1958, "selling: Mercedes Benz 1956 300 SL Gull Wing racing coupe, knock off solid wheels, 65,000 Kilo's, $1500, call 2-3465" What is that today, $650,000... LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Erik C Lindgren:

I like the paintwork and the weathering, very cool! Is it yours??

Erik, no it is not.

Yves

That is a beautiful piece of brass work. Still don't like those hex nuts but the detailing is great.

Ed,

Thanks for the good advice. I think my expections got raised a bit high. My Sunset P10 without weight will pull 10 cars up that grade while the slightly higher geared Overland UP P77 struggles [slips] with eight. Both Pacifics weigh the same.

I haven't reached the limit with my slightly weighted Sunset MT 4 but it's OK with 13.

Your point on balance is really well taken. I'm struggling with a recently acquired, slippery, Weaver Hiawatha Hudson which seems to be a bit tail heavy.

Hopefully, we can get the FEF3 right. I like the loco a lot and enjoy long trains. I'll ensure we keep the weight low enough to let the wheels slip.

I have not had the chance to shoot the #841 In Service FEF in the studio. I will do it tomorrow. However, at the studio I shot some images of a recent HO scale PSC release. Thought you would like to see Boo Rim's talents.

Oops, sorry about the Big Dome, grabbed the wrong image link.. Oh well :P

Those are some spectacular photos. I had this particular model in my shop for a while, and rated it "ten".

Ted, traction can depend on the type of steel in the tires. Plated tires will pull about half of what a good set of iron tires will pull. Fortunately, in a few hours' time, the plating comes off, and you have at least mild steel, which is way grabbier than nickel plate.

3rd Rail is aware, and they will tell you the same thing. Ask for Gary - I think he is still an associate.

Opinion.

Boo Rim has been the exclusive builder for River Raisin Models in "S" scale for th past 8-9 years and their models have withstood the test of time (so far). Beautifully detailed, great running characteristics and they have not worn out yet. Boo Rims model of the UP 8500hp Turbine was every bit as nice or nicer than the last run of OMI "O" Turbine except the Boo Rim model ran as well as it looked unlike the OMI model that could hardly pull itself.

They are a 1st class operation!!!!

Butch

This message has been edited. Last edited by: up148,

quote:

Originally posted by up148:
I owned one of the KTM-USA FEF-3's back in the mid 90's. Bought it from the orignal owner Peter Bassett of the The Model Shop in Surrey, England. He ordered it new and I have the invoice from 10/28/1986 but it is in Yen. $465,000.00 to be exact, I just don't know the exchange rate then or now so don't know what this equates to in $$$.
Butch

According to the historical records at Oanda.com, on the 28th of October 1986, the rate of exchange was 0.0062250 yen per dollar, coming to a total of $2,894.63. Not too far off of the 1992 ad that Eric found at BLCO.

FWIW,
Bryon

Thanks Bryon!

That's kind of brings it full circle. But, $2500-2900 in 1986 for a model locomotive was a ton of money. It certainly held its value over the years.

Butch

Thanks Bob. Perhaps several hours of running will improve traction. I read elsewhere that the loco weighs 71/2 lbs. Perhaps a tad light but not too bad.

I've just pulled light loads because I haven't properly lubricated it yet. It runs well, though.

Per the request of showing a grey FEF tender water deck.

Notice the lenses installed in the marker lights. They really went all out to make a model you can stair at and endlessly find new detail on.

The Today version has wood planks on the water deck.

Stock Alert: We are now sold out of the #844 Today Version in 3 Rail and the #841 Black version in 2 Rail. If you are looking for one, please call us for availability. You can reach us at 1-800-3RD-RAIL

well, I got my 2 rail 841 today and am very happy with it. The price was super and there is more loco than my layout can handle. If I run it it will be back and forth through the yard as I don't think it will handle the 55 in rad. Well I haven't yet checked.
But all the rivet counters should know that one shouldn't expect much for 1400 and be happy with all one gets. I am ear to ear. Oh the gloves were an impresive addition.
I had to box up my 2 u 50s to make room for the FEF above my computer where I enjoy looking at my models that reside out of the box for months at a time. Looking at what one owns helps me from buying too much as I realize I do have enough models to make most happy.
Thanks Sunset for the good work.

Phill

Those platforms and auxillery tender pipe connections on the rear of the tender should not be on any model but 844 Today and the rear top handrails should be on a radius and not straight. Nice paint though. Sorry. Ed

Yves, Nice model. Enjoy the weathering as it makes it look like a bad boy.
Anyone going to weather their FEF3s I would if I was good at it on a 1400 dollar model.

Erik, Who makes that passenger car, Any U.P.s awesome.

quote:

Originally posted by brasman:
ChipR thanks for posting pictures of the FEF by KTM USA. The 844's were imported exclusely for Bill Lambert and I think not many more than 10 total. Unfortunately they made the same mistake as Sunset and extended the smokebox which is in error. Look at Boilermaker's pictures earlier in the post so see that the smokebox was not extended and the FWH is tight up aginst the front of the smokebox front. For that reason I do not consider the KTM USA 844 to be the finest in accuracy. The other KTM USA FEF-2's and 3's wilthout the worthington FWH models are and they were produced 23 years ago. Ed

do you have any fun with your models at all in running them or do you just sit and stare at them to see what is wrongl.
I super detailed a pfm ho gn 08 and used only one photo as it was the way it looked on date and year. these engines did not look the same year in and year out and even day to day for that reason. if a new part was needed it was put on as fast as it could be and did not matter if it looked exactly the same as it did before. my 08 is only 100% accurate to a specific date and would look different before that photo and also with its full rebuild in the 40;s.

A model is like a snapshot in time and when you pay good money for them I think they should represent something closer to that snapshot. Having details that never existed and dimentions that do not match the snapshoe\t is not modeling but just playing with trains. Playing with trains is completely OK providing you do not represent it as a real model of a prototype. Ed

In a way, I agree with Ed. However, these Sunset products are way more for the buck than most, and I kind of like the looks of those wayward platforms. For the vast majority of O scalers, these new products are so good they are hard to resist.

With Bultmann and Kohs out of the club, Ed now has to learn how to build his own - that can be fun, but believe me, you run out of gas before the last fire brick is soldered in. My models have often lost in contests to stock Sunset products (our OSW contests often feature factory models with no identifying tags, as if the owner actually made them).

And 2 Rail is nearly sold out.

We have 1 Black In Service and 2 Grey In Service Left in 2 Rail.

If you want this model, don't blink.