There was some understandable confusion in the discussion of KTM built O scale UP 4-8-4 brass models over on the Sunset 3rd Rail FEF-3 thread. It stems from KTM, a Japanese builder, working with at least five six O scale importers.

The five I am aware of are:
International Models - early 1950's
Max Gray late 1950's-mid 60's.
US Hobbies 1960's - early 1970's
Westside Models - 1970's
PSC - late 70's early 80's ???
Katsumi Mokeiten Company, USA (or KTM USA) - early 1980's

If anyone can add to the list or better refine the time frames I will update the post. I’d also like to know if the 1980’s Katsumi Mokeiten Company, USA was an arm of the Japanese KTM - or a small US owned firm authorized to use the KTM name.
As time passed the detail and workmanship on KTM O scale models got better and better. In part due to improved processes and skills in Japan, and in part due to the importers and buyers demanding more accurate detail. Popular engines were imported multiple times from KTM, by multiple importers. The KTM PRR M1 for example was imported by both MG and Westside. The MG model had the early KTM fabricated brass gear box, while the Westside models had cast ones. Westside imported the PRR M1 in 3 runs. The first with an open frame motor and no back head detail, the second added a Pittman can motor, and the third had a suite of improved castings and a fully detailed back head.
For new buyers, it is important to know which version KTM model you are considering buying, as they are not all equal in detail or running characteristics.
Ed Rappe

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Keystoned Ed,

These are pictures of my KTM US Hobbies. Definitely not the level of details of the new Sunset.







Before restoration:









Yves

Ed:

Add PSC to your list. The "Crown" Hudsons and Niagara were KTM.

Best,
Brian

Thanks Brian - do you recall the general date range PSC teamed with KTM. Was this after Westside closed down?

Ed

It was a result of PSC acquiring Westside's O Scale projects on the occasion of WSM's death. PSC then presided over what Westside had begun, the transition from Japanese to Korean-built brass as mainstream.

I probably have ads at the house somewhere in the library that would date the Hudson/Niagara project. I'll check.

Best,
Brian

Ed, the KTM USA FEF-2 and 3 was imported in 1986 and it's introduction was at O Scale West. KTM USA was indeed part of KTM and was set up in the USA in an attempt to sell models direct to the public without importers and dealers. Ed

Interesting fact; In the late 1990 a dealer wanted to sell me what he said was two PSC Crown Big Boys. I did not buy them because they were in red Westside type boxes and had a PSC label which was typed U P 4-8-8-4 and no mention of Crown. I think they were a model ordered by Westside and in the transition to PSC and just relabeled. I did not inspect the models so I do not know if they were Crown quality but I doubt it. Ed

Can someone post a picture or two of the KTM USA model.

There are quite a few posted within the last three days. You just have to look around. Some of us no longer know how to post photos here.

Since it is "just a restored" model, I'll give you 20 bucks for it?

Another KTM derivative is Sofue-built models. As I understand it, these were very limited run models that were built by one of KTM's most skilled builders, a Mr. Sofue (pronounced sew-foo'-ā). Sofue san incorporated a level of detail that is only matched by today’s best models. Yet in despite the level of detail, the Sofue models were typically “KTM rugged”.
One other feature of these models is a coasting drive, which is an absolute wonder. Some “non-Sofue” models have these drives installed too. I have operated one, and it is, arguably, the best.
As far as I know, the only true Sofue models are the UP FEF3 4-8-4, the NYC Niagara 4-8-4 (the most common?), and the UP Big Boy (the rarest?).
I’ve never seen any of these models in person, but there was one for sale on eBay some years back (a UP FEF3 4-8-4). They are rare, and expensive! I believe $5,000 would be a bargain price. The Big Boys supposedly sold for upwards of $20,000.
I would be interested to learn more about these models, especially: what engines were modeled, quantities, dates, and level of detail.

Add C&NW H-1 class to the Sofue models he produced. Ed

Ther were 2 Sofue engines at the National convention this year, the gentlemen who had them was nice enough to show me one. They come in wooden cases with etched name plates, neither one were of the models previously listed. I had never heard of these before as I sold all my brass in the late eighties and although I attended many O scale meets from then until now this was my first time seeing these. This man had actually met Mr Sofue in Japan, he no longer builds models. I gathered his later work was limited to a hand full of custom models for a very limited clientle. Most of the real custom locos change hands privately. As an aside I understood this man had been trying to sell these for a few years 4K to 8K range. Models are highly detailed typical thicker guage Japanese brass.
Hibar

hibar what were the two models? Road and class engine? I recently heard that Mr.Sofue had trained his son to build models but have not seen evidence of that. Ed

T believe a SP and possibly ATSF locos, this gentleman had a table at the Aug Strasburg show although he did not have the models with him, he lives in Pa and I believe John Dunn a frequent contributor to this forum who runs the meets knows him and may be able to put you in touch. He is very knowledgeable of MR Sofues work. He made no mention of anybody carrying on this loco building apparantly Mr Sofue is in his 80s in poor health.
Hibar

That makes sense as I know Sofue made a big S F Hudson with 84" drivers. Ed

thx ed for the history of KTM. i was wondering if my:

Westside/KTM PRR M1 with 130P75 short tender

was re-detailed or not but now, i'm pretty shore the castings
are original. also, i was very surprised that the backhead details
were of exellent castings and i thought the seller made it so but now,
i know it was the 3rd KTM run and also original.

Bob2

i used to be able to post photos here but suddenly, about ~4 months ago,
i was not able to. i think it's a combo of my McAfee installation and
somethings changed by this forum operator. in either case, chris N&W was
able to help me out and he has the written direction along with mine.
for my M1 model picture, just do 'search' on above 'Westside/KTM M1' or just
goto 'Layout and Model Photos' in this forum.

I read an article by Bob Darwin critiquing a Sunset AC-12 cab forward. He claimed that the thickness of the brass on this engine was .032 (boiler I think). How does this compare to the KTM engines? I like the old KTMs because of their rugged construction. Most of the Korean models of the late 70's and early 80's were terribly constructed. How does the current PSC,Overland, and Key models compare?

I concur with the .032 on most Sunset models. That does not include the SP Atlantic or Consolidation. The lone PSC model around here was an AC6SF, with a boiler thickness of .020 - a little on the light side for a giant articulated model, in my opinion. Most USH is around .025.

Measurements, in my case, are done with micrometers and dial calipers with .001 resolution - but still it is tough to get really accurate measurements.