The wires are coming.

Spent about 12 hours sat and 8 hours sun working on four of these two-track span support towers:









Took me about an hour to figure out what i was doing, then the first two (towards the tunnel) took about 3 hours each. Yesterday, i managed to shave that time down to about an hour and 15 each, and built the two closer towers, which are pictured above on my "jig". The footings are actually sections of 1/2" hardwood dowel, cut about 3" long and hammered into 1/2" holes drilled in the subroadbed, then drilled with a #8 bit to act as sockets for the poles. (I would have preferred using square footings, but square holes are a lot harder to drill.) More photographs of the first two, plus assembly of the 4th, are available here.

I was supposed to be reusing a lot of the cat off the old layout, but it's vastly complicated by the fact that they painted everything (poles, wires, and insulators), and used steel music wire; so now it's covered in grunky paint and loaded with rust. Anything i do want to reuse has to be thoroughly cleaned before it can even be disassembled; as even with my 400-watt grandpa iron i can't get good heat transfer to painted/rusty metal. If i'm going to try to salvage any of it, i might just coil it all at the bottom of a new 40-gallon rubbermaid trash can, and soak it in a few gallons of vinegar for a week or two to clean the rust off. (Will vinegar also remove the old paint?)

I'll probably build a few more span towers for around the curve (behind the camera) before hanging the first stretch of actual running wire. Yes, the equipment *will* run off the pans.


--Drew

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Drew McCann,

Drew,
Very nice handiwork!

How about a square 'cap' made from hardwood or styrene with a 1/2" hole drilled from the bottom and a #8 hole through the top.

Another option => build a master with just the 1/2" hole, make a latex mold then pour resin copies. Drill the #8 hole in the copies.



Matt

Wow! Those really look great Drew! Where did you get those really neat insulators?

I understand what you're saying about the footings but I think they look awesome. I totally don't mind the circular footings, I would have no problem using them on my own layout, but if someone did want to go the extra mile for square footings it would be great if there was some sort of a small square plastic or styrene box that you could just drill a hole into and slide it over the circular footings then paint it concrete color.

Great job Drew!

very, very nice work Drew. you were busy this weekend.
(I on the other hand spent the weekend insulating my home)

I do like Matt's suggestions and have to point out that our Pennsy style catenary needs square footings for the poles, per the prototype. I'll even volunteer to work that out for you, once I get the paint factory siding done.

BTW, I have a PRR catenary layout sketch showing ROW pole distances, wire heights, etc. I can dig up for you if need be.

Really nice Drew. I got to hand it to you, anyone who has the patience to build caternary is a FAR better man than I!
As far as the bases, how about making a master and pouring a pile of plaster ones? A few pieces of styrene, with a tube in the middle to allow the pole to pass through, and you're in.

quote:

Originally posted by PRR Man:
very, very nice work Drew. you were busy this weekend.
(I on the other hand spent the weekend insulating my home)

I do like Matt's suggestions and have to point out that our Pennsy style catenary needs square footings for the poles, per the prototype. I'll even volunteer to work that out for you, once I get the paint factory siding done.

BTW, I have a PRR catenary layout sketch showing ROW pole distances, wire heights, etc. I can dig up for you if need be.

Chris, if you would care to spearhead the square-footings issue, i'd be happy to have the help. (Otherwise, i was going to ask if Matt (Old Goat) above was willing to volunteer. ) Currently, the poles are just fitted into the dowel footings, without actually being glued in yet; so they can just lift out for now. Once the running wire starts getting hung, i'll be anchoring them permanently, and putting in the angled guy wires (so now is the time, if it's something you feel is important). To my eye, the round footings looked "good enough for government work"; considering the size of the layout, i wasn't going to worry about it too much beyond that.

As for pole distances and height, i'm basically working off the known pantograph range, and eyeballing it for pole spacing (mostly "this looks right", and a little bit of "I need the poles here and here for crossover pulloffs"). I've got some N-trak modules with (working!) PRR compound cat on them; i'm finding O much more satisfying for the same work.

--Drew

quote:

Originally posted by tsgtbob:
Really nice Drew. I got to hand it to you, anyone who has the patience to build caternary is a FAR better man than I!
As far as the bases, how about making a master and pouring a pile of plaster ones? A few pieces of styrene, with a tube in the middle to allow the pole to pass through, and you're in.

Just so we're all on the same page, the footings need to be durable enough to withstand not only being hammered into the subroadbed (literally, with a hammer); but also to handle the angular torque loads that will eventually be put on them by the running wire. I do plan to install the angular pulloff guy wires on each pole to help reduce that torque somewhat, but the footings still need to be able to take the abuse.

Currently, 1/2" hardwood dowel seems to meet that need; a square casting fitted over that would probably work best. Cast plaster or resin is fine for such a drop-on; but i do not believe such castings would hold up in use *without* the dowel inside (and they certainly wouldn't take being hammered into the layout).

--Drew

Drew- I like your catenary...it adds realism to your set-up. Here in Toronto I see lots of wires with this city being full of street-cars. They add a flavour to the city.

With this addition you layout will stand out as a touch above the others...

quote:

Originally posted by Drew McCann:

the footings need to be durable enough to withstand not only being hammered into the subroadbed (literally, with a hammer); but also to handle the angular torque loads that will eventually be put on them by the running wire.

Hi Drew, I think the easiest way would be to just drill the holes in the base the same diameter as the metal line poles then make a cosmetic square footing from plastic or whatever and slip it on the pole before planting them. You might need to increase the length of the metal poles a bit so you have enough planting depth, I'd make them all a little longer than necessary then push them in to the correct height for each installation and let the extra extend thru the base board.....dave

quote:

Originally posted by daveb:
Hi Drew, I think the easiest way would be to just drill the holes in the base the same diameter as the metal line poles then make a cosmetic square footing from plastic or whatever and slip it on the pole before planting them. You might need to increase the length of the metal poles a bit so you have enough planting depth, I'd make them all a little longer than necessary then push them in to the correct height for each installation and let the extra extend thru the base board.....dave

Dave,
Easier said than done. We're re-using the poles from the original cat installation, and they're not quite long enough to go through the roadbed and still keep the wire at a good height. Making up additional new poles is also a few months off, as i was quoted $435 for a minimum order of 35ea 3-foot lengths of 1/4" square H column. K&S no longer stocks the 1/4" stuff, so custom order is it if we want the poles the right sizes.

--Drew

quote:

Originally posted by Drew McCann:

Easier said than done. We're re-using the poles from the original cat installation
Making up additional new poles is also a few months off, as i was quoted $435 for a minimum order of 35ea 3-foot lengths of 1/4" square H column.

Sorry, I didn't realize those were square poles. I used 1/4 inch welding or brazing rod for the overhead on my trolley layout so the cost of poles was minimal....dave

Drew, nice work!

quote:

Originally posted by Drew McCann:


Just so we're all on the same page, the footings need to be durable enough to withstand not only being hammered into the subroadbed (literally, with a hammer); but also to handle the angular torque loads that will eventually be put on them by the running wire. I do plan to install the angular pulloff guy wires on each pole to help reduce that torque somewhat, but the footings still need to be able to take the abuse.

Currently, 1/2" hardwood dowel seems to meet that need; a square casting fitted over that would probably work best. Cast plaster or resin is fine for such a drop-on; but i do not believe such castings would hold up in use *without* the dowel inside (and they certainly wouldn't take being hammered into the layout).

--Drew

DANG MAN!
I agree that a casting, unless made of real concrete, would hold the stresses you speak of. My thought was simply as a cosmetic thing, although a few swipes across the dowell with some floquil concrete may just work visually. But, would 1/2X1/2 square hardwood (let's say poplar for instance) work as both the "real world" structure and the model's apperance structure?

Just bouncing idears off ya.

(BTW, that auto rack I got off you at Strasburg, well it's getting a load of Jeep CJ-7s ) Bring the other two in the spring please...

Very nice and convincing. That MP54 looks right at home under it.

Why not use a cement product like "bolt setting" can't remember the name. Or try Rock Hard Water Putty. Just a couple of ideas.

Dick

quote:

Originally posted by daveb:

quote:

Originally posted by Drew McCann:

Easier said than done. We're re-using the poles from the original cat installation
Making up additional new poles is also a few months off, as i was quoted $435 for a minimum order of 35ea 3-foot lengths of 1/4" square H column.

Sorry, I didn't realize those were square poles. I used 1/4 inch welding or brazing rod for the overhead on my trolley layout so the cost of poles was minimal....dave

Dave,
The originals being reused are all round brass brazing rod. I've been mixing them up a bit with some 7/32" and 1/4" square H columns (purchased new locally from an old store stock), to represent prototype pole replacements. There's not nearly enough of the originals to finish the layout; and the old store stock is finite. Once it's gone, i'll probably be not only ordering more H column custom made, but also getting another batch of brazing rods.

--Drew

Let's see.....Have they moved NEW YORK closer to Indiana? You guys are great1 Where in New York?

I was just in Home Depot yesterday and hanging around the trim area waiting on my O scale friends business. They had a nice selection of hardwood square pieces that could be cut to length for pole bases. No dowels needed. Check them out. jnm

quote:

Originally posted by Drew McCann:

The originals being reused are all round brass brazing rod.

Hi Drew, If you can find some tubing that will slip over the base of the poles you could extend them enough to drill them into the base board so the square bases could just be a cosmetic overlay....dave

quote:

Originally posted by R.R.:
Let's see.....Have they moved NEW YORK closer to Indiana? You guys are great1 Where in New York?

Jim,
Actually, the club is located in Merchantville, New Jersey.

--Drew

And then there were six:




These last two took about an hour and 10 each.

quote:

Originally posted by jefferson:
I was just in Home Depot yesterday and hanging around the trim area waiting on my O scale friends business. They had a nice selection of hardwood square pieces that could be cut to length for pole bases. No dowels needed. Check them out. jnm

Be that as it may, I don't have a lathe to round the bottom half of each piece to the 1/2" that would fit the layout; nor do i have the mortise bit to drill square holes in the subroadbed.

quote:

Originally posted by daveb:
Hi Drew, If you can find some tubing that will slip over the base of the poles you could extend them enough to drill them into the base board so the square bases could just be a cosmetic overlay....dave

I really do appreciate all the suggestions; but i think i'm going to keep doing it my way for the time being, as i'm under a bit of a time crunch to get this stretch done before the holidays. Using the dowel is fast, easy, and effective. (Should someone actually step up and come over to the club with their solution in-hand and ready to go, rock and roll. Until such time as someone does, i'm going to put it off till later to work out at my leisure.) Thank you for the ideas, tho!

--Drew

Five and Six.





Seven.



Also, if anyone wants to prep their electric locomotives to run under the wire when visiting the CV, here's the electrical schematic for how i've got the pantographs and toggle switch connected:

All the diodes are 1n4148 high-speed switching diodes. The relays are simple 12vdc SPST, although i typically use the Potter-Brumfield KH styles. This setup is designed to allow the locomotive to choose the proper return rail, regardless of which way it's oriented when placed on the track.

--Drew

Drew: With due respect for your circuitry, wouldn't it just be easier to have a 'rule' that all electric locos have their "F end" facing "west" [ at such-and-such a locale on the layout, if necessary ] ? Or are there reverse loops, etc, and it's not just initial orientation ?

Do you remember in the early '70's when one of the RDG electrified lines was extended a few miles north, and for some reason 25 kV was specified ? The new GE blt cars the RDG got at the time had dual voltage capability with an automatic changeover system [ + of course a backup voltage detect system, etc, etc ]
For some reason that popped into my mind....

Best, SZ

SZ,
You are correct in your guess that it's not just about initial orientation; as there are indeed several return loops on the layout.

...As for remembering the early '70's, i'm not quite old enough for that. I do know there's a number of places on the overall system that have been converted from 11k@25hz to 25k@60hz, with the resulting phase breaks.

--Drew

Drew
It's looking good, real good

Cool stuff!

NEATO!

Drew,

That is very neat and fine work. The catenary system adds tremendously to Cherry Valley's railroad. All of John Dunn's GG-1 and E-44 locos will now have a power source!

Best regards,

Joe Foehrkolb

Great stuff, there. I am glad I don't have catenary to look forward to on my own layout, though.

Up to 10 now.




I've also come to realize two things: One, that cleaning the original steel wire for re-use is *way* too much work when i can just buy new (read: clean, straight, and uncut) phosphor-bronze wire in the same diameter at a cost of about $65 per 1000' coil. Two, that i'm not going to have time before the holiday shows to get any of the linear runs strung up. So as things stand now, i'll spend the next few weeks building more towers, and put off the installation of the running wire until after the new year.

--Drew

quote:

Originally posted by christopher N&W:
I am glad I don't have catenary to look forward to on my own layout, though.

Hi Christopher, That's a wise thought. I built a trolley layout years ago and never finished the scenery because the wire was such a pain to work around. I had scars on my wrists from banging into the metal poles and everytime one wants to uncouple a car it sounds like a bass playing on one string....dave

Drew, that is probably a wise move anyway. Let people get used to the towers and then after the Holiday rush is over add the wire. Stand back and think about it1
I should be up in Baltimore come in June. You have plenty of time to finish it up.

Hi Drew,
One of my 0-Scale friends, made life easy, he installed the masts like you have done, but do not want to install the running wires!
He told me, that several visitors told him, that it took them like half an hour, before they realized, that there was no running wire! If the running wire has scale dimensions, it is so thin, that if you do not look down along the tracks, but from the side, you do not miss it?
I have seen his layoutand just having the masts with El-locomotives running, looks much better than running the El-locomotives on a mast free line!
I have been thinking of this possibility on my PRR layout, but I have only one Kohs GG-1 and lots of PRR Steam and Diesels, so the GG-1 will be put up for sale soon and the money used for my 1955 "Little Greenville Harbor Project" where there will only be small steam and diesels! On my mainline around the walls, I would have liked to run with overhead wire, but well, it will just be one of those connecting lines for steam and diesel only !!