Dear List,after waiting 13 months,the call came from my hobby dealer that my loco was in.I picked it up yesterday and late last night I unpacked the loco and inspected it.My initial overview was absolute delight-great detailing/crisp lettering and paint/classic PRR details,and then I turned the piece over on my loco craddle and this is the rest of the story.......I took my trusty NMRA gauge and tender truck wheelsets right on,placed the gauge on the loco wheelsets and EVERY one of them was out of gauge.I then noticed the tread width and it was so large it matched a LGB loco I had on display.I for one is sick and tired of this B/S crap.Atlas is screwing with the wrong person,and collectively we need to send a CLEAR messge to Atlas and other importers,if your loco is not correct-SEND IT BACK !!! I could care a rats *** if Atlas has a QC problem-its their problem.not mine.It is high time we start saying-good enough isn't good enough. BUYER BEWARE!! John P.DunnSr.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jdunn,

John,

We understand your frustration. Why not post a picture of the wheelsets
and the gauge next to it? That would help members to identify the problem
and show us the extent of the damages.

Also, will it be possible to rework the wheels? Have you tried it on a piece of "Atlas" track?

Yves

Dear Ives,Why should I play with the wheelsets,I paid $559.00 to make sure I recieved a correct piece.But this is what the idiot importers has us indoctrenated,good enough?? B/S!!! John P.Dunn Sr.

Its funny how they can make a nice Trainman GP-15 properly gauged and with the correct wheel profile on a piece that cost $160 an get it wrong on a $600 model and is the premier of their steam. They have some work like kill the wide width trucks, make the couplers work better (or interchangeable) and make sure all models leave the factory gauged to NMRA standards.

Anyone know why Atlas would make the driver tread so wide? Out of gauge would be a quality control problem but wide treads must be a decision made on purpose?..dave

I too have had an 0-6-0 on order for a long time and although mine did not come in yet I am very dissapointed to hear this news. I don't understand why any company, especially Atlas on a piece that is called their "Founders Series", would not use the NMRA Standards. Fer cryin' out loud that's what Standards are for! When my 0-6-0 comes in will I be able to run it on Atlas track? I've got half a mind to cancel the order. Will there be a real fix for this problem or will Atlas pay for Joe F to fix it? I don't feel it is fair for me to pay out of pocket costs to fix something like this when the information to make it right was feely available in the first place.

Thanks for posting this John.

John,

I feel your pain!!! There are some additional comments addressing this problem on the brass loco thread just below your topic. Joe @ Baldwin Loco Works says it is easily correctable as he has turned down hundreds of 3R driver tires to make them 2R correct. But, that is really not the issue here.

I agree with you 100%. Atlas takes a lot of liberties when they supply us with 2R locos & cars and now 3R drivers on a 2R model. This one is really hard to take. Sunset doesn't do this! They give us the correct width and gauged drivers on their 2R models. Weaver doesn't do this.

I'm sure we'll be told if you don't like what Atlas produces don't buy from them and that is partially correct. But when they advertice a 2R model you expect the drive train to be 2R correct or compatible and not have 3R drivers installed with overwidth treads.

I've gotten some pretty stern responses from their forum watchdogs when I've asked why their 2R offerings come with overwidth truck frames, bodies sitting too high above the trucks, and gear ratios for very high speed toy train operation so I don't go there much anymore. But I truly believe Atlas doesn't intend to change. If you want their products you'll take them as is or not at all. So I only purchase rolling stock and change out the trucks and their SW-9 with horizontal drive.

Butch

quote:

Originally posted by up148:
So I only purchase rolling stock and change out the trucks and their SW-9 with horizontal drive.

Butch

Hi Butch, Their new MP15 DC supposedly has the single motor drive too?
Anyone got one that can post a quick review? .dave

Hey Dave! Yep, I heard that it did but the MP15 is too new for my modeling era so I didn't pay attention. I'm sure the only reason we get horizontal drives in their switchers is because they can't figure out how to stuff the China drives under the shell.

Butch

quote:

But I truly believe Atlas doesn't intend to change. If you want their products you'll take them as is or not at all. So I only purchase rolling stock and change out the trucks and their SW-9 with horizontal drive.

Butch

I agree 1000%. Atlas does give the impression that they have no intentions of changing anything. Many have complained about their truck bolster but no change. The same goes for their 2R couplers. No change.

One thing that really rubs me the wrong way is when they say that they started out by making a 2 rail models and then figuring out how to make them work for 3 rail. That was true in the case of their SW and now MP15, but it is not true in the case of their rolling stock and larger diesels. I agree with Butch that not all but many of their items sit too high on the trucks. I wish they would have used a typical 2 rail truck bolster like Weaver does. These could have easily been adaptable to 3 rail. All this is coming from a big fan of Atlas. On the plus side I think Atlas has done more than anyone to promote 2 rail and for that I am grateful and appreciative.

One of the reasons I ordered the 0-6-0 is because it, like the SW and MP15, is a 2 rail locomotive first and then a 3 rail locomotive. What I mean is the drive system and gear ratio is what one would expect to see in a typical 2 rail locomotive with the motor mounted parallel to the tracks and a geared low tranny between the drivers and motor.

I loved the looks and performance of the 3R version of which I saw operate at York. The 2R version looked equally good but was only a static model as Atlas does not run 2 rail at York only 3 rail. I never thought to check the gauge-who would? Who would have predicted that Atlas first "Founders Series" locomotive would have drivers that are out of gauge? Certainly not me.

John,
If at all possible, please post a photo of the wheels/drivers. Thanks,

Why does this type of business practice surprise you from Atlas considering the huge cover-up they did on their defective three rail switches? As many of you know I took the same position that John took, why fix something that is flawed upon delivery. Atlas did nothing but spew rhetoric that many of the three rail forum members bought hook line and sinker. I was the subject of many unflattering comments when I complained about the switches on the forum. John’s post regarding the 0-6-0 only proves my point loud and clear.

UP148

Do you by chance have any Atlas Roller bearing trucks you might want to get rid of since you replace them??

I was mulling this over and I realized I've never heard of, nor read about any complaints from any owners of the DC version about the drivers being out of gauge. I believe the DC version has been on the market for about 5-6 months now. Is it possible that Atlas got a bad batch of drivers and they slipped thru the checkpoints?

Patrick,

I've sold or traded away all the trucks I've changed out so far. I have more Atlas cars untouched in boxes and will let you know.

Butch

Thanks UP148!

Has anyone actually TALKED to Atlas about the problem?

quote:

Has anyone actually TALKED to Atlas about the problem?

An excellent point, Jim!

quote:

Originally posted by Allan Miller:

quote:

Has anyone actually TALKED to Atlas about the problem?

An excellent point, Jim!

Sounds like a good project for one of the O scale magazines to take on?

Brian took them to task in many reviews when he was editor of OST. I could be wrong, but I don't think anything that's ever been pointed out as a negative for 2Rer's on an Atlas O product was corrected.

I don't think a magazine can afford to take on Atlas as they are paying advertisers and I don't think it would do any good. It is evident they feel they can do as they please with their products. The only way to educate them is voting with your pockerbook. But, as Phil pointed out earlier Atlas has done a great deal for O Gauge/Scale in general so even with the overwide trucks and high water diesels it's a better O world than before they re-entered the market. It just doesn't appear they'll ever make a truly scale car or loco which it too bad since there products overall are very good.

Butch

Butch,
Once again I agree with what you're saying.

quote:

I don't think a magazine can afford to take on Atlas as they are paying advertisers and I don't think it would do any good.

Well, OST need not worry, didn't Atlas pull all of their advertising from them about 6 months ago? I just checked issue #36 [Jan/Feb/08] and Atlas is not listed in the index of advertisers.

John P.DunnSr e-mailed me some pictures of the Atlas 0-6-0 and asked that I post them here. Our intention is not to bash Atlas but inform anyone who is considering buying this locomotive right now what problems they may face. I say right now because I sincerely hope that this problem is resolved for the future. On Friday I got a phone call from the dealer that I ordered mine from. I'm not sure what to do about this as I never had this problem before. John told me that to have Joe F repair this locomotive will be well over $100 in labor not to mention shipping the engine to Joe and back. I have most of the money put aside for this engine but I just can't afford this extra expense beside the fact I don't think it is fair to me that I should have to pay it. Also, John P.DunnSr said he will be in touch with Atlas tomorrow. I hope this can be resolved to where I can still get the locomotive but if not I can save for something else.

Anyway the first two pics are of a NMRA gauge against the Atlas 0-6-0 drivers:






By contrast here is a picture of the same gauge on the Atlas 0-6-0 Tender:



And finally here is a picture of a KTM 0-8-0:

Well, I will defend Atlas. As we all know these models are made in China. As we know there are those manufacturers send test engines to Atlas to verify the drivers, etc, and perhaps the manufacturer is to blame. Yes, Atlas has responsibility to make sure their products are right. Perhaps this was done at the last minute and Atlas did not know that the drivers were wrong. I can not believe that they would would knowingly let this happen. If they did, shame, shame. If it was the maker, shame on him. Shame on you complainers, give Atlas a chance to respond.

Dick Donaway

Does the engine fall off the rails? Are there any tracking problems? Just curious, but I don't think anyone commented on how it runs. Is it possible the gauging was intentional to facilitate tighter corners?

There is no good reason for wheels to be made wide and out of gage. Sharp curvature is handled best by increasing the lateral motion in the driver assemblies. Wide tires can cause shorting on some switches.

Adhering to a standard for wheel dimensions and track gage is very important if you want your trains to operate smoothly.

Joe

dear list,i have been assured i will be recieving a phone call tommorow-monday- from jim weaver-president of atlas o to discuss this problem-needless to say-i will keep you all informed.please also note my photos put on by phil gatto-thank you,phil-showing clearly the issue at hand.please note,i am concerned by one of the responders that we are complainers-no,we are consumers-and without this forum and others like it in the o scale fraternity this problem would not be brought to light due to possible concerns of loss of advertising revenue-whens the last time you saw a negative r